[Official] Grand Theft Auto IV

[Coldgunner]

I never trust any magazines with 'official' in the title

Official Nintendo Magazine gave South Park the Game 90%, wish I never bought that game.

[Sethos]

:blink:

No one's "dragging it down", merely talking about framerate, graphics, ect - Crucial parts of a game/review.

I'd hardly call it quirks either, GTA has always been notorious for pop-up, if this is anything like the past titles.

That DOES effect reviews you know, do you want to look back to 2007 with the PS3? :p

Perhaps, but having these issues ever since Grand Theft Auto 3, starting to complain about them now is just daft in my book. Almost every game has their graphical issues or quirks due to the limited power of the consoles, we just gotta deal with that. Yes, frame drops may be on the severe side of the scale - But from what I've read so far these drops usually happens when tons of action is going on. It was stated in a preview some time back they only experienced frame-drops when a bunch of guys fired their RPG at a gas-station and they fixed the FPS issues.

Now we are suddenly back to square one with FPS issues? Something seems fishy.

But giving a game 9 instead of 10 because a car disappeared at some point or a building didn't appear just in time is just fly-****ing something great. If the game is seriously good, like the previous Grand Theft Autos but with all the added features we've been hearing about, i have no idea how you can even doubt the character "10" - It's not impossible. But i will wait until some 'non-official' sources get a hold of the game to see what they say. But people need to relax a bit and look at the big picture with games ...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Perhaps, but having these issues ever since Grand Theft Auto 3, starting to complain about them now is just daft in my book. Almost every game has their graphical issues or quirks due to the limited power of the consoles, we just gotta deal with that. Yes, frame drops may be on the severe side - But from what I've read so far these drops usually happens when tons of action is going on. It was stated in a preview some time back they only experienced frame-drops when a bunch of guys fired their RPG at a gas-station and they fixed the FPS issues.

Now we are suddenly back to square one with FPS issues? Something seems fishy.

But giving a game 9 instead of 10 because a car disappeared at some point or a building didn't appear just in time is just fly-****ing something great. If the game is seriously good, like the previous Grand Theft Autos but with all the added features we've been hearing about, i have no idea how you can even doubt the character "10" - It's not impossible. But i will wait until some 'non-official' sources get a hold of the game to see what they say. But people need to relax a bit and look at the big picture with games ...

Uhh GTA been injected into your bloodstream? :laugh: ;)

People HAVE complained about it since GTA3. The two titles that followed improved on it.

We're not back to square one, this game has probably always had FPS/Pop up issues - Heck it's delay was probably something to do with minimizing graphical issues, than it was finishing off the storyline.

Um, 10/10 is perfection, glaring graphical issues like these does not = perfection.

As I said, look at any multiplatform PS3/360 review from last year. The PS3 on average score 0.5-1 lower (sometimes more), due to these "graphical quirks".

You also have a ton of gamers who'll blow blood vessels saying if a game isn't locked at 30/60FPS "IT'S A FAILURE!!111", or it's "TOTALLY UNPLAYABLE!!111".

Now we know that is not true, but as a reviewer, this is still a downside to the title, and in my books it is

a) Worthy to note

and

b) May affect my final score

Other games nail the FPS/Graphical side of things, so when one game doesn't, how can you say it's perfect compared to a game that does?

Sorry, im just quite tight on the 10/10, 100% reviews. I don't like them. They're what I expect to see from fans, which is fair enough, fans don't get paid to review games and are much more likely to review based on their dying love, than review for millions of people to read.

Reviewers should be reviewing for pluses and negatives, and if there is a negative(s), they should consider the impact on the final score - And it should have somewhat of an impact, well depending on the negatives themselves.

I much prefer what 1UP have done where they have changed to letters - F to A (and they have + and -).

For it's much easier to read a game that gets an A, instead of 100% 10/10 IMO. Or maybe I should say A+, but I doubt 1UP are going to give anything even that, and if they do, it still doesn't glare "PERFECT" at you, like 10/10 does.

My belief on that actually comes from school/University and how students can get awarded an A, but an A in percentage can be for example between 75%-100%. Now it's highly unlikely these 20 students who got an A got 100%... most of them probably got 75/76% :p - I'm sure you can see my point.

That's why these kind of reviews are marketing > actual review. I'm just fed up seeing 10/10 and perfect ratings whacked around everywhere for games, while amazing, have flaws/negatives worthy of noting.

GTA4 will undoubtedly be the best title on consoles so far, and maybe even for the rest of this generation (Y)

Edited April 16, 2008 by Audioboxer

[acies]

That alone should give it less than 10. I'd go with 9 though, as any reviewer that goes lower than 9 will probably be fired... :/ :p And to be fair, the game probably is going to be that amazing, it's worthy of a 9.

Lets wait until we played it first.. it could be awful :pinch:

Also, a new TV commercial:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermov...aylist=featured

very cool :cool:

[Sethos]

Uhh GTA been injected into your bloodstream? :laugh: ;)

What kinda BS comment is that

People HAVE complained about it since GTA3. The two titles that followed improved on it.

We're not back to square one, this game has probably always had FPS/Pop up issues - Heck it's delay was probably something to do with minimizing graphical issues, than it was finishing off the storyline.

Um, 10/10 is perfection, glaring graphical issues like these does not = perfection.

As I said, look at any multiplatform PS3/360 review from last year. The PS3 on average score 0.5-1 lower (sometimes more), due to these "graphical quirks".

You also have a ton of gamers who'll blow blood vessels saying if a game isn't locked at 30/60FPS "IT'S A FAILURE!!111", or it's "TOTALLY UNPLAYABLE!!111".

Now we know that is not true, but as a reviewer, this is still a downside to the title, and in my books is

a) Worthy to note

and

b) May affect my final score

Other games nail the FPS/Graphical side of things, so when one game doesn't, how can you say it's perfect compared to a game that does?

Sorry, im just quite tight on the 10/10, 100% reviews. I don't like them. They're what I expect to see from fans, which is fair enough, fans don't get paid to review games and are much more likely to review based on their dying love, than review for millions of people to read.

Reviewers should be reviewing for pluses and negatives, and if there is a negative(s), that could affect your final score - And it should, well depending on the negatives.

I much prefer what 1UP have done where they have changed to letters - F to A (and they have + and -).

For it's much easier to read a game that gets an A, instead of 100% 10/10 IMO. Or maybe I should say A+, but I doubt 1UP are going to give anything even that.

That's why these kind of reviews are marketing > actual review.

A review is like a personal opinion, they are based on what reviewer thinks and likes, what he sees as perfection - Some reviewers actually give their own opinion while others look at the readers and try to give them a character they'd like to hear and agree with.

I've seen so many games getting 7-8/10 which are perfect tens for me, because they are games i see as perfect. Some games scoring in the high 9's and above have had me go "What the hell?" because i find the games poor and boring. ( Gears of War is a nice example ) - So game reviewing IS in the eye of the beholder.

Right now I'm not saying the current 10/10's are justified, not at all. As someone said, i don't trust this "Official" tag they have, specially not when they needed to be in a Rockstar chosen Hotel to tests these games, seems more like information control and "Giving them that extra, just to please them".

But I'm just saying, if the game gets a 10/10 in unofficial game magazines, you can't just shoot the character down because it doesn't please you. A perfect score for me, means the reviewer loved the game and It's a perfect game in his eyes, it may be a 8/10 in my book because i can't overlook small issues or some gameplay feature.

So to sum it up, a 10/10 for you is a game of sheer perfection ( Which doesn't exist and never will, because everyone has different opinions on perfection ) a 10/10 for me is a game which the reviewer loved and felt perfect for HIM/HER.

But saying you are 'sick' of 10/10 just makes me one big question mark, this is the first 10/10 game I've seen in ages.

[Srsly]

So yeah... OPM UK gave it a 10 too!! :o At first i thought too the xbox mag was biased coz MS has interest in it, but this means either that OPM doesnt want to look like its worser on the ps3, or they are as both as good on both consoles :)

But OPM also gave driver: pl an 9 or something, so idk. We just have to wait on Kikizo's review i guess :) Or until i can play it in october/november(lulz i aint getting a console!)

[what]

Hey guys, Microsoft gave our GTA fansite the opportunity to host a competition where the winner will receive one of the 100 limited edition GTA IV Elite Xbox 360s made to promote the game. If you want to take part take a look at http://www.gta4.tv

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

What kinda BS comment is that

A review is like a personal opinion, they are based on what reviewer thinks and likes, what he sees as perfection - Some reviewers actually give their own opinion while others look at the readers and try to give them a character they'd like to hear and agree with.

I've seen so many games getting 7-8/10 which are perfect tens for me, because they are games i see as perfect. Some games scoring in the high 9's and above have had me go "What the hell?" because i find the games poor and boring. ( Gears of War is a nice example ) - So game reviewing IS in the eye of the beholder.

Right now I'm not saying the current 10/10's are justified, not at all. As someone said, i don't trust this "Official" tag they have, specially not when they needed to be in a Rockstar chosen Hotel to tests these games, seems more like information control and "Giving them that extra, just to please them".

But I'm just saying, if the game gets a 10/10 in unofficial game magazines, you can't just shoot the character down because it doesn't please you. A perfect score for me, means the reviewer loved the game and It's a perfect game in his eyes, it may be a 8/10 in my book because i can't overlook small issues or some gameplay feature.

So to sum it up, a 10/10 for you is a game of sheer perfection ( Which doesn't exist and never will, because everyone has different opinions on perfection ) a 10/10 for me is a game which the reviewer loved and felt perfect for HIM/HER.

What kinda BS comment is that

Chill the heck out, it was a joke about the fact you're really up for GTA. Jeeez oh, have a cup of tea on me :p

Anyway, The only thing I have to say is reviewers in the industry have to be professional journalists and earn the money they get to do their job - Which is trying to offer completely neutral and unbiased reviews which cater for everyone reading their magazine/website.

They have to IMO base their review on something like 70/30 in favour of what the general public may think overall/on average as opposed to only what they think. As of course a review wouldn't be as "friendly" or refreshing if the reviewer couldn't give a little of his/her opinion/feelings and touch.

Why do I say this? Cause if they do that ratio the other way around then it can just end up an 8 page article of "perfection", much like this - Where to be honest, most of us know GTA4 isn't going to be "perfect". It's almost like letting a company review their own products - Let Sony review their OWN Bravia TV's, your most likely going to see a lot of "10/10" and "We're the best", as opposed to letting individual reviewers review the TV's, where while they're on average going to say they're good, you'll see a lot more negatives and criticisms otherwise missed in Sony's own reviews.

Now this reviewer isn't from Rockstar, but whipping out 10/10 reviews like this, well at times, you might as well just be someone from Rockstar.

If your magazine is going to go willy nilly with perfect ratings, at least change to letters for the reason I said above to keep your integrity/image looking (Y)

I think you missed it in my quote, as as usual I edit things I post 10x haha... but here it is again, to do with an "A" being more respectable than 100% or 10/10 in a review.

My belief on that actually comes from school/University and how students can get awarded an A, but an A in percentage can be for example between 75%-100%. Now it's highly unlikely these 20 students who got an A got 100%... most of them probably got 75/76% :p - I'm sure you can see my point.

As you can see, what im saying is IMO it's more respectable to give a game an A which is the best on your scale (just like 10/10 is), and then state the 1 or 2, or maybe even 3/4 flaws it has.

If you give something 10/10 which = 100%, and then list 3/4 flaws it has, it's pretty :pinch: It would have been better to give it 9.5 then, or 95% even... instead of 100%.

Leave the totally personal reviews for the gamers on messageboards/indie review sites, we'll get lot's of them! Professional reviews read by millions, have to be that, professional.

But saying you are 'sick' of 10/10 just makes me one big question mark, this is the first 10/10 game I've seen in ages.

Not been many in a while, I'll agree with that, but my opinion tips over to games that get the likes of 98% 9.5/10, where the rest of the industry is pretty much giving them 8.5/9, 90%.

I know you'll get a varying review score over the industry, that's how you get an average, but you know what I mean when you see the first exclusive Halo 3, MGS4 review and the likes, you can bet on it being the "perfect" review (BEST GAME EVER!!111, blah blah blah), and it will probably be the highest score for the game awarded.

Those IMO are marketing > reviews. Like I've said a few times - I wouldn't be surprised if the fact they get an exclusive review, the review is proof read by the developers, and they get to decide more than the reviewer does... but meh, I only go by what industry chatter is (1UP Yours as I said above covered exclusive reviews and what not in one of their podcasts).

Edited April 16, 2008 by Audioboxer

[PiracyX]

I agree with you Audio completely.

10/10 gets thrown around far too much and this review coming from the Official Xbox Magazine is what they call the game pefection which it clearly isn't going to be. I will wait until a less biased review comes along then we can make judgements because anything coming from "Official" will be Pro-marketing rather than a fair, decent review that most people can agree on.

The game is going to be really good no question and i don't intend to bash it but you can't help but feel this review was written by someone who was wasn't in the position to give the game anything less than 10.

10/10 is a perfect score, A perfect game. If they have given this score because of there love for GTA then people with any sense isn't going to listen.

For Example, I brought Dark Sector the other day and i think its really good, Its fun to play, has great garphics (GOW style) and the Multiplayer isn't bad.......OXM give it a 5.5 :rolleyes: So in there eyes its a crap game, yet GTA can do no wrong. Every GTA after GTA3 was just an expansion yet it managed to get great scores :huh:

All i am saying is we really shouldn't be trusting anything Official because it's more like they gave that score for various reasons.

[Huleboeren]

But if 10/10 is perfect then no game will ever receive that :s

My scores:

6 - Alright (If youre a fan of the previous games, that genre)

7 - Good

8 - Great

9 - Awesome

10 - Awesome+

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

I agree with you Audio completely.

10/10 gets thrown around far too much and this review coming from the Official Xbox Magazine is what they call the game pefection which it clearly isn't going to be. I will wait until a less biased review comes along then we can make judgements because anything coming from "Official" will be Pro-marketing rather than a fair, decent review that most people can agree on.

The game is going to be really good no question and i don't intend to bash it but you can't help but feel this review was written by someone who was wasn't in the position to give the game anything less than 10.

10/10 is a perfect score, A perfect game. If they have given this score because of there love for GTA then people with any sense isn't going to listen.

For Example, I brought Dark Sector the other day and i think its really good, Its fun to play, has great garphics (GOW style) and the Multiplayer isn't bad.......OXM give it a 5.5 :rolleyes: So in there eyes its a crap game, yet GTA can do no wrong. Every GTA after GTA3 was just an expansion yet it managed to get great scores :huh:

All i am saying is we really shouldn't be trusting anything Official because it's more like they gave that score for various reasons.

Yeah, I agree about Dark Sector, it really is not as bad of a game people have made it out to be.

I also happen to not trust "Official" magazines at all. They have corporate ties, and as such, cannot be trusted in my eyes, plain and simple. I still subscribe to one or two for the good deals and I like to read before bed or while on the toilet, but other than that I take them all with a grain of salt.

Finally, to me there have only been a handful of 10/10 games in the 25+ years I have been a gamer, and that is a long time. A 10/10 means absolute perfection to me, and that is near impossible more often than not.

With that said, I have played tons and tons of 9.5 games, games I thought were without a doubt near perfect, but perfection is a strong word for anything, not just video games.

[Sethos]

Chill the heck out, it was a joke about the fact you're really up for GTA. Jeeez oh, have a cup of tea on me :p

Sorry, that was just as bad as a Fanboy comment - But I'm sure i just overreacted.

I'm not gonna drag all these points through the mud, because we're just arguing an opinion and then you hardly ever find a middle ground.

I have one view on reviewing a game you have another. I do agree with you on the school 'grading' way, perhaps that's a more inconclusive way of doing it.

So you are pretty much saying "This game is between 80% and 100%, pick what you like", then we might have less frowning when games get decent scores.

But as i said, a 10/10 means different things to different people, you can never make a perfect game which everyone finds perfect, It's impossible - Therefore the character 10/10 is impossible to reach.

So i do believe a 10/10 is more of a personal opinion and a great game clashed together.

I think we already agreed, both OXM and OPM aren't very trustworthy on this matter, no need to go through that again.

But i genuinely wanna know, where are all these 10/10 games, since you keep saying that character is being thrown around? I can't even remember the last 10/10 game i saw, the only place I've ever seen that character was on some Danish amateur Xbox site. ( This comment was for PiracyX )

But if 10/10 is perfect then no game will ever receive that :s

My scores:

6 - Alright (If youre a fan of the previous games, that genre)

7 - Good

8 - Great

9 - Awesome

10 - Awesome+

Exactly!

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

But if 10/10 is perfect then no game will ever receive that :s

My scores:

6 - Alright (If youre a fan of the previous games, that genre)

7 - Good

8 - Great

9 - Awesome

10 - Awesome+

The issue is, as there is no standard in the gaming world, your scale, could be completely different from everyone elses scale.

That is why official/big named/money earning reviewers have to cater for the masses - Overall most people will probably see 10/10 as perfection, as opposed to what it is on your scale "Awesome+".

I wouldn't blame them, everywhere in life 10/10, or 100% IS perfection. If I get 100% on an exam, I say I've done perfect, and I have, as I've made NO mistakes.

I don't go "Ohhh 100%, I'll need to check my paper and see if there are any minor/major flaws" - There won't be any flaws!

This is why, when it comes to reviews, people see no differently. 10/10 or 100% = perfection, like it does in other areas of life.

That is why I think reviews should change to letters to be easier for people to relate to (my analogy of getting an A like above), or at least if they stick to numbers award games within 9-10 if they think they should be (9.1-9.9), rather than chucking 10's about.

At least offer a disclamer in your mag/website stating what your scale MEANS!

Even chucking this

Our Scores Mean:

6 - Alright (If youre a fan of the previous games, that genre)

7 - Good

8 - Great

9 - Awesome

10 - Awesome+

In your mag would make your image more respectable :p

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sorry, that was just as bad as a Fanboy comment - But I'm sure i just overreacted.

I'm not gonna drag all these points through the mud, because we're just arguing an opinion and then you hardly ever find a middle ground.

I have one view on reviewing a game you have another. I do agree with you on the school 'grading' way, perhaps that's a more inconclusive way of doing it.

So you are pretty much saying "This game is between 80% and 100%, pick what you like", then we might have less frowning when games get decent scores.

But as i said, a 10/10 means different things to different people, you can never make a perfect game which everyone finds perfect, It's impossible - Therefore the character 10/10 is impossible to reach.

So i do believe a 10/10 is more of a personal opinion and a great game clashed together.

I think we already agreed, both OXM and OPM aren't very trustworthy on this matter, no need to go through that again.

But i genuinely wanna know, where are all these 10/10 games, since you keep saying that character is being thrown around? I can't even remember the last 10/10 game i saw, the only place I've ever seen that character was on some Danish amateur Xbox site. ( This comment was for PiracyX )

Sorry, that was just as bad as a Fanboy comment - But I'm sure i just overreacted.

It was only teasing light heartedly, much like people will probably do to me if MGS4 gets 7/10 and I "overreact" :p (Due to me having a MGS4 sig).

At first I thought you were whole heartedly defending the 10/10 and saying GTA4 basically will be "perfect", which is why I dropped that one liner at your being "GTA4 obsessed". Now I know you're not doing that.

Anyway enough of me explaining a joke :laugh: It's not a fanboy comment :blink:

And I think we'll just agree to disagree on the whole, we have different perceptions of what reviews mean, and the only thing I'll say is IMO that totally backs up my point of how we have no standard in the gaming industry when it comes to reviews, the confusion that causes and why these large scale reviewers really need to get their act in gear at times.

Our conversation proves some of the points I came out with! To me 10/10 is perfection, to you it's more of a reflection on how great a game it is (but no means perfect as such), and the magazines/websites do nothing to differentiate at times. Some might offer 10/10 and say "GAME IS PERFECT", other's give 10/10 and then list flaws... If you catch my drift... At times it's just confusing/frustrating to see such scores awarded.

I guess that's why we all have preferences on which review sites/magazines we "trust" and visit.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Audioboxer

[PiracyX]

But i genuinely wanna know, where are all these 10/10 games, since you keep saying that character is being thrown around? I can't even remember the last 10/10 game i saw, the only place I've ever seen that character was on some Danish amateur Xbox site. ( This comment was for PiracyX )

Official Xbox Magazine - Halo 3, Bioshock.

[Sethos]

As i said, we already established these "Official" magazines not being very trustworthy on reviews, so why mention it again?

Thought you mean thrown around as 70% of all review sites gave them 10/10

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Official Xbox Magazine - Halo 3, Bioshock.

More than just them...

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/halo3

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/bioshock

No im not starting a debate over Halo 3/Bioshock, just showing that PiracyX is right and it's a fair few more than 1 or 2 review sites/magazines chucking around 10/10 and 100%.... although some of them maybe on the smaller scale of things.

[Sethos]

I see - Gotta admit, haven't read any of the 100% reviews, since they are not my local review sites. I'm using other sites because i tend to 'agree' with them more.

But more than 50% DIDN'T give the game 10/10, same with Bioshock, so saying the perfect score is being overused is exaggeration imo.

With that said, I'm gonna go make dinner and hope the threads get back on topic - We can argue opinions and views all day long and nothing will change :laugh:

[Shreik]

I wanna have the last word... :p

I also don't think the 10 is overused, I think the only reason why people are all over the 10 and the A's is because they don't think it's fair to give to that specific game. I think it's fully acceptable, because the grade is only that certain critics opinion, and it doesn't make you think he is right in everything. We have to learn that people have a different opinion and the reviewer shows his own.

I don't think that a 10 is something that comes so often, and when it does I can still find small things about the game that ****es me of and makes it a 7 for me.

It's all about opinion, I can't say that to many times :p

I hope GTA IV is a clean 10 in my book, but I seriously doubt it. But hey, a 9 or a 10 who cares? :)

[Dane]

Hmm this actually makes me want to go out and buy a 360 and the new GTA and Xbox live!! I can't though, dont have that much money to spare lol. Hopefully this summer.

[Ricardo Gil]

A 10/10 used to mean a really good game, the highest level of achievement. Not perfect by any means, but in the highest category. But then came the "detailed reviews", with reviewers going the extra mile, giving scores like 8.76 or 9.12. WTF does that mean really?? If not for that, people wouldn't be making such a fuss over a 10.

It's just a 10 people, not 10.00 out of 10.00.

[Green_Eye]

Ahh who cares about who give it a 10? The only review that ever really matters anymore is that of the legend himself "Ben "Yahtzee" Corshaw"

Seriously though he is the only guy that I can expect to give a review that I really want to listen to. He truly attempts to destroy the game and when he can't its a sign that the game stood its ground pretty well :D

He is extremely tough but he is also fair, Yahtzee for president :p

[Jimmy0]

Ahh who cares about who give it a 10? The only review that ever really matters anymore is that of the legend himself "Ben "Yahtzee" Corshaw"

Seriously though he is the only guy that I can expect to give a review that I really want to listen to. He truly attempts to destroy the game and when he can't its a sign that the game stood its ground pretty well :D

He is extremely tough but he is also fair, Yahtzee for president :p

Croshaw

;)

And yes I agree, I love that guys reviews.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Jimmy0

[what]

Hey guys, Microsoft gave our GTA fansite the opportunity to host a competition where the winner will receive one of the 100 limited edition GTA IV Elite Xbox 360s made to promote the game. If you want to take part take a look at http://www.gta4.tv

Quoting myself because this post got lost in the argument on the previous page, and I thought some of you may be interested.

EDIT: but it turns out this isn't one of 100, it's one of five =)

[Sethos]

I'd love to enter the competition, but no point with an NTSC 360.