Apple may have shipped 2.5 million Macs in spring thanks to Vista

[markwolfe Veteran]

in my opinion, the only people that have problems w/ Vista are the ones that arent using it.

...

So, I guess you feel your opinion is important enough to apply it to everyone else. For your edification, my wife has asked me to get Linux on to her Vista laptop. After using Linux for a while on her old computer, she (get this!) just prefers it, and has less issues.

[Martog]

What exactly is in iTunes for it to come in a 57MB installer? I know they tried to bundle Safari in iTunes updates to get people to unknowingly download their browser... but come on :)

Well, I guess you have absolutely NO idea that the iTunes installer includes Quicktime, eh? That's a required piece of software for iTunes. That brings iTunes down to about 35MB or so looking at my iTunes and Quicktime installers I have saved. Ok, what else could there be taking that much space? Well iTunes I assume includes WebKit or a stripped down intergrated Safari for the Music store. It also includes drivers for all the iPods, it does have a CD buring application built in for making music CD's, visualisers, component to share music to other iTunes in the network, stream music to Airport Express, podcast and internet radio support. For video playback I do believe Quicktime handles that for it. The fact is iTunes is just not a simple audio player to sync your music to the iPod, it has a bit more behind it.

I agree they coudl reduce the size down, WMP11 is only about 28MB or so and doesn't require something like Quicktime. However, Apple realizes on the Windows side iTunes is not necessary for everyone (ie education that streams videos of the net or something) and why the two are not intergrated together like they could be.

[Phixion]

Actually I purchased much of the music from the iTunes Music Store, the stuff I've converted from my CD Collection I wanted the best quality I could get with some space savings so I went with AAC and then Apple Lossless. The fact that it works with my iPod and iPhone is just a perk. :)

You know, people complain about the 2MP camera on the iPhone but I've seen better pictures from the iPhone than I've seen from some N95's which have 5MP if memory serves me right. Still, a camera on a phone is still only as good as it's optics. If you want a camera, get a camera. If you want something to take quick, decent, fun pictures and spur of the moment things, then use your phone. Don't try to take production photos with your phone, if you do...wow.

So everything you do in your digital life is in step with what Apple want. All of your music is in their own format, the music player you use is theirs, the phone and portable player you use is theirs.

And there's more people ending up like this...

And they say Microsoft are taking over the world...

Soon you will be dressed in Apple clothing, live in an Apple house and be eating Apple food.

[Cara Veteran]

So everything you do in your digital life is in step with what Apple want. All of your music is in their own format, the music player you use is theirs, the phone and portable player you use is theirs.

And there's more people ending up like this...

And they say Microsoft are taking over the world...

Soon you will be dressed in Apple clothing, live in an Apple house and be eating Apple food.

Well technically I am wearing an Apple branded T-Shirt today, have an Apple logo on my ID badge... My house is paid for (in part) by Apple Money, and so is my food so... ;)

[Martog]

You know, people complain about the 2MP camera on the iPhone but I've seen better pictures from the iPhone than I've seen from some N95's which have 5MP if memory serves me right. Still, a camera on a phone is still only as good as it's optics. If you want a camera, get a camera. If you want something to take quick, decent, fun pictures and spur of the moment things, then use your phone. Don't try to take production photos with your phone, if you do...wow.

I suppose I don't really take spur of the moment pictures because I could honestly care less if a phone has a camera. I can carry around a small digital camera that'll take better pictures and can be turned on fairly quickly, I mean with a phone you still have to get it out and switch to the camera application, which depending on the phone, may be just as fast as pulling out a small digital camera and turning it on and taking the picture. Have to agree with you on taking production pictures Cara, I have a Digital Rebel for a reason, its my picture taker.

When it comes to phones, I think companies sometimes have lost sight on what the device was originally inteded to do, make phone calls. They have caught up on how much stuff they can cram into the little box sometimes. Though granted I think its pretty easy to use most cell's as a phone, just I hate to see the companies loose sight of that as I am sure some have.

[markwolfe Veteran]

So everything you do in your digital life is in step with what Apple want. All of your music is in their own format, the music player you use is theirs, the phone and portable player you use is theirs.

And there's more people ending up like this...

And they say Microsoft are taking over the world...

Soon you will be dressed in Apple clothing, live in an Apple house and be eating Apple food.

Shhh... But this is why I would not be in favor of having Apple as the dominant OS provider, replacing Microsoft.

Both companies love to use format and application lock-in. ;)

I like the look of their products. I like how OSX works (even on an old slow G3 hand-me-down PC donated to one of my kids, it is amazingly nimble). But I do not like the way they are so much like Microsoft (back in Microsoft's worst days, just before the DOJ actions).

[Martog]

Shhh... But this is why I would not be in favor of having Apple as the dominant OS provider, replacing Microsoft.

Both companies love to use format and application lock-in. ;)

I like the look of their products. I like how OSX works (even on an old slow G3 hand-me-down PC donated to one of my kids, it is amazingly nimble). But I do not like the way they are so much like Microsoft (back in Microsoft's worst days, just before the DOJ actions).

And if Apple gets in the position MS is today, they may very well have the DOJ to answer too as well. Only time will see with that but who knows.

[Phixion]

Well technically I am wearing an Apple branded T-Shirt today, have an Apple logo on my ID badge... My house is paid for (in part) by Apple Money, and so is my food so... ;)

Case closed.

I didn't know whether you were an avid Apple supporter or whether you worked for them.

It's hard to tell nowadays ;)

[alphaomegainfinity]

Well, I guess you have absolutely NO idea that the iTunes installer includes Quicktime, eh? That's a required piece of software for iTunes. That brings iTunes down to about 35MB or so looking at my iTunes and Quicktime installers I have saved. Ok, what else could there be taking that much space?

The fact that only the setup file itself occupies 57 MB space is shameful. After installation, iTunes + Quick Time + Apple Software Update swells to a humonguous 160 MB on a Windows PC. What more can I add?

[Cara Veteran]

Case closed.

I didn't know whether you were an avid Apple supporter or whether you worked for them.

It's hard to tell nowadays ;)

hehe.

Honestly, my feelings about Apple came around in about 2000ish, before then I completely was anti-Apple. Once they made the change to OS X and started adopting standards I started actually looking at them and haven't looked back.

Scary thing is I use to flame Apple more than some of the people on Neowin... I'm living proof anyone can change.

[Phixion]

hehe.

Honestly, my feelings about Apple came around in about 2000ish, before then I completely was anti-Apple. Once they made the change to OS X and started adopting standards I started actually looking at them and haven't looked back.

Scary thing is I use to flame Apple more than some of the people on Neowin... I'm living proof anyone can change.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of Apples stuff. If I had ?1200+ to blow I'd probably get an iMac or Macbook Pro. Sadly I can't see myself ever having that much to blow, the fact that I could buy components and build a better machine for 1/4 of the price does put it into perspective, for the specs of the machine they ask too much. I think if anything you're paying for the design/build quality.

I had a Mac back in the mid 90's so I know for a fact they have grown a hell of alot in popularity since then. They are now the 'in' thing.

[Mikee99]

When Snow Leopard comes out with Exchange support that works it will be the final nail in Office:Mac's coffin I think.

:laugh: Sorry, but that is just not true. There is more to Office that businesses use than just Exchange support. MS Office is the standard for business. iWork is just simply not good enough for widespread business support. And just because there is Exchange support, it doesn't mean it will work as well and as seamless as Office, especially for training purposes. Entourage does a very nice job at providing an Outlook-like environment for OS X.

Isn't it amazing how whatever an "analyst" says IS the be-all end-all truth? Let's just forget that there is absolutely no concrete evidence to support the claims, and they are essentially just a bunch of BS and anti-MS propaganda. Why does news like this have to propagate amongst the internet so quickly, and why do people actually BELIEVE this crap? What ever happened to thinking critically when reading something? I seriously lose faith in humanity when articles like this are written and people actually believe it. It's really just (yet more) mindless Vista bashing.

[Cara Veteran]

Don't get me wrong, I like some of Apples stuff. If I had ?1200+ to blow I'd probably get an iMac or Macbook Pro. Sadly I can't see myself ever having that much to blow, the fact that I could buy components and build a better machine for 1/4 of the price does put it into perspective, for the specs of the machine they ask too much. I think if anything you're paying for the design/build quality.

I had a Mac back in the mid 90's so I know for a fact they have grown a hell of alot in popularity since then. They are now the 'in' thing.

Saying a 'Better Machine' is relative of course. I prefer a Mac where I don't have to deal with supporting it over PCs, even the ones I've built, which seem to last about 3 years max before needing upgrades just to keep running what I have already had on there. Never figure that one out!;))

To each their own.

the[/b]> standard for business. iWork is just simply not good enough for widespread business support. And just because there is Exchange support, it doesn't mean it will work as well and as seamless as Office, especially for training purposes. Entourage does a very nice job at providing an Outlook-like environment for OS X.

Isn't it amazing how whatever an "analyst" says IS the be-all end-all truth? Let's just forget that there is absolutely no concrete evidence to support the claims, and they are essentially just a bunch of BS and anti-MS propaganda. Why does news like this have to propagate amongst the internet so quickly, and why do people actually BELIEVE this crap? What ever happened to thinking critically when reading something? I seriously lose faith in humanity when articles like this are written and people actually believe it. It's really just (yet more) mindless Vista bashing.

Um...MS Office is the current standard for business, however its market-share is being eroded by OpenOffice and similar products every day. As for iWork, please. iWork operates perfectly acceptable in an Enterprise Class Environment as well as in a great many Higher Education situations. Adding in Exchange support further weakens Office:Mac as at that point you have no unique features.

Pages - One of, if not the, best Word replacement for the Mac. Opens every DOC/DOCX I've ever thrown at it.

Number - Needs work, is getting it.

Keynote - Powerpoint isn't even in Keynote's league, EVERY Keynote presentation I've ever done (100+) gets questions on how I did it, people are amazed at the quality when compared with the best Powerpoint can offer.

You truly have some twisted ideas, but thats your right.:))

As for your comment below about anti-MS Propaganda...I get the feeling you're the type who thinks IDC and Gartner make things up about Apple to fuel their support... People aren't 'mindlessly' bashing Vista...they are simply posting the common feeling and thoughts about it.

[Martog]

The fact that only the setup file itself occupies 57 MB space is shameful. After installation, iTunes + Quick Time + Apple Software Update swells to a humonguous 160 MB on a Windows PC. What more can I add?

Buy a bigger hard drive maybe, I don't know, I run Vista on a 300GB raptor and have no space issues, then again all my saved stuff sits on a RAID 1 array in a server. :) You probably run nLited XP or vListed Vista if you are really concerned with how much space something takes up on a hdd. Oh noes, my Windows Vista folder takes up 16.6GB, what shall I ever do with 1TB drives out, surely we are all doomed. :)

Not saying that is a good thing or what not, but get my idea.

Also, I decided to peak into the iTunes and Quicktime folders, jee, found out what is taking so much space, multi-language project files. its about 48MB for iTunes for all the languages for the resources, and about 20MB or so for Quicktime (As the main resource components take up more space then the sperate language ones). So yeah that could be about 60MB stripped out if you just wanted English but Apple decided not to cut them out, not sure if the apps themselves switch languages depending on the system setting or if they have seperate language downloads for Quicktime and iTunes.

[Richardarkless]

send them a cake as thanks but thats something microsoft will do

[Phixion]

Saying a 'Better Machine' is relative of course. I prefer a Mac where I don't have to deal with supporting it over PCs, even the ones I've built, which seem to last about 3 years max before needing upgrades just to keep running what I have already had on there. Never figure that one out! ;)

To each their own.

Better machine meaning, faster processor, faster gfx card, faster/more memory.

There's nothing relative about it. Compare the highest spec iMac (spec and price wise), then compare it to a system you can put together for the same price as the most expensive iMac.

The system you build will have far superior components, both in quality and speed and you have the freedom to use components from any manufacturer, run any OS you like and run any application.

Imagine having ?1,389.00 to spend on a new build... you'd have an amazing system for that.

[Cara Veteran]

The ?500 system will be cheaper and faster and you have the freedom to use components from any manufacturer, run any OS you like and run any application.

Which to me doesn't produce a 'Better' computer. Having top shelf components, unified warranty support, and (arguably again) the best OS on the planet PLUS the capability of running any other OS I want meaning any application...that is superior to me. :))

I am tired of piecework computers, when I buy a new Mac I know I'm getting my money's worth.:))

[Mikee99]

Um...MS Office is the current standard for business, however its market-share is being eroded by OpenOffice and similar products every day. As for iWork, please. iWork operates perfectly acceptable in an Enterprise Class Environment as well as in a great many Higher Education situations. Adding in Exchange support further weakens Office:Mac as at that point you have no unique features.

No, it's not. OpenOffice, while a good free product, has not put a dent into Office's market share. Go to any large corporation (exception of Apple, of course), nobody uses OpenOffice, nor iWork, nor Word Perfect, etc. Office reigns supreme amongst businesses, and will remain so in the forseeable future.

Pages - One of, if not the, best Word replacement for the Mac. Opens every DOC/DOCX I've ever thrown at it.

Number - Needs work, is getting it.

Keynote - Powerpoint isn't even in Keynote's league, EVERY Keynote presentation I've ever done (100+) gets questions on how I did it, people are amazed at the quality when compared with the best Powerpoint can offer.

You truly have some twisted ideas, but thats your right. :)

Why are my ideas twisted? I work for a large coporation, and I know how the management works. MS Office is the king. If they are using it on PC's, and there is a mac verison, of course they are going to use it on their macs. That's common sense. It doesn't matter if there is an alternative. If there is even an inkling of a compatibility mismatch problem, they will avoid using the alternative product at all costs.

As for your comment below about anti-MS Propaganda...I get the feeling you're the type who thinks IDC and Gartner make things up about Apple to fuel their support... People aren't 'mindlessly' bashing Vista...they are simply posting the common feeling and thoughts about it.

Wrong. The "analyst" in this article cannot prove why mac sales are strong this spring. He is going off of the anti-Vista sentiment that is very affluent in the electronic media. That is not scientific. Also, how many of these new mac users are running Vista either fully or partially on these macs? Again, this "analyst"'s claims are just bull****, and he is riding the anti-Vista pony to guarantee himself high ratings.

[Phixion]

Which to me doesn't produce a 'Better' computer. Having top shelf components, unified warranty support, and (arguably again) the best OS on the planet PLUS the capability of running any other OS I want meaning any application...that is superior to me. :)

I am tired of piecework computers, when I buy a new Mac I know I'm getting my money's worth. :)

Top shelf components, as in buying without a doubt THE BEST Intel chipset you can buy at the moment, THE BEST Corsair Dominator memory, THE BEST Intel Core2Duo or Core 2 Quad processor you can buy THE BEST nVidia GTX280...

You actually have choice when you build a PC and the components available are better than those that are available in Macs currently.

[Martog]

Better machine meaning, faster processor, faster gfx card, faster/more memory.

There's nothing relative about it. Compare the highest spec iMac (spec and price wise), then compare it to a system you can put together for the same price as the most expensive iMac.

The system you build will be cheaper and faster and you have the freedom to use components from any manufacturer, run any OS you like and run any application.

Technically you are not supposed to run Mac OS on anything but Mac hardware so that's not really true. :) The idea behind pre-built computers are that you will have one source of support for everything that came with it plus the same warrenty across the board where as home built ones could have a varying warrenties, support is generally up to the person who bought it, etc. Pre-builts just make sense for those who are not able to put together their own and troubleshoot it.

Also with Apple you are getting a set of hardware tested to work together as well as an OS that was built around a smaller set of hardware to try an eliminate some of the headaches of supporting mass amounts of hardware on the OS.

As people have said, vote with your wallet. if you don't want to pay the price then don't, if others will and enough, they will continue with their prices (See the Starbucks thread on people paying the $5 for their drinks in the Real Word news). Just because you won't pay for it, does not mean someone else will. I personally only buy their laptops while building my own desktops, that's just me though for what brand of laptop I want.

[darkmanx21]

Actually I purchased much of the music from the iTunes Music Store, the stuff I've converted from my CD Collection I wanted the best quality I could get with some space savings so I went with AAC and then Apple Lossless. The fact that it works with my iPod and iPhone is just a perk. :)

You know, people complain about the 2MP camera on the iPhone but I've seen better pictures from the iPhone than I've seen from some N95's which have 5MP if memory serves me right. Still, a camera on a phone is still only as good as it's optics. If you want a camera, get a camera. If you want something to take quick, decent, fun pictures and spur of the moment things, then use your phone. Don't try to take production photos with your phone, if you do...wow.

I'm sorry, but enough of this.

You obviously love Apple. I've gotten that from all the pro-Apple sentiment. Bottom line is this. There is no way, just because YOU don't see it, that Apple is better than "others" in every single thing. Maybe you should try some other products. Saying the pictures on a N95 are worse than the 2MP on the iPhone is pretty obviously biased and it makes it seem like nothing, in your eyes, is better than your phone. The iPhone is a very nice device, but I wouldn't pick it ever because I like feedback. It's preference! You like the iPhone, but it is not "the best" device by any means.

Yes, they make a good product, yet they only have a 6 or 7 per cent stake in the US - so they can't be the best in everything now, can they?

Just like you said, I'm not trying to attack you, but you don't seem to ever see it any other way besides Apple.

[PGHammer]

No doubt that advertising helps. Bringing a product into the consumer consciousness is important. But Linux really doesn't advertise. While they have a small (an accurate term may be "minuscule") marketshare on the desktop, there has been a doubling of client Linux since March 2007, according to sources such as NetApplications Hitslink. I think that more people are aware that there are alternatives. And more people think it is acceptable to use an alternative to Windows.

Does this have anything to do with Vista? Who knows. Some stats show Vista doing better than XP did. Some show that is is a "failure". The truth, most likely, is somewhere in-between. Apple was on an upward trend long before Vista, and they are just continuing it.

Also, look at the *overall base number* of systems in service. Has the total number of systems gone up or down? Also, what's the CPU breakdown? (You simply won't find many P-IIIs running Vista or a modern Linux distribution; however, these same P-IIIs make great basic 2000/XP/older Linux clients).

How many systems are multi-OS (two or more operating systems)? A lot of Macs (especially modern Macs) don't run *just* Tiger or Leopard, they may also run XP or/and Vista. The very fact that you can run Vista on a Mac isn't exactly a plus for OS X.

[Cara Veteran]

I'm sorry, but enough of this.

You obviously love Apple. I've gotten that from all the pro-Apple sentiment. Bottom line is this. There is no way, just because YOU don't see it, that Apple is better than "others" in every single thing. Maybe you should try some other products. Saying the pictures on a N95 are worse than the 2MP on the iPhone is pretty obviously biased and it makes it seem like nothing, in your eyes, is better than your phone. The iPhone is a very nice device, but I wouldn't pick it ever because I like feedback. It's preference! You like the iPhone, but it is not "the best" device by any means.

Yes, they make a good product, yet they only have a 6 or 7 per cent stake in the US - so they can't be the best in everything now, can they?

Just like you said, I'm not trying to attack you, but you don't seem to ever see it any other way besides Apple.

No attack taken. :)

I do love Apple, without a doubt or argument from me. However, that said, I don't agree with everything Apple does.

My ultra-portable preference is a Lenovo X300, not MacBook Air. Why? It's just flat superior in virtually every respect. Apple has some serious catching up to do there.

The lack of a Mini-Tower / Tower computer...market-share pointlessly lost.

Even the iPhone, yes, I feel it is the best out there in its class. However, it lacks simple features such as tactile feedback on the touch screen, factory video recording (which keeps getting yanked from the FW for some reason), and something as simple as a cover for the camera lens when not in use. (PS, for the record my longest standing/lasting phone to date is a Nokia 6800 so I respect Nokia quite strongly.)

Don't think just because I'm Pro apple I mindlessly feel they have the superior product on all fronts, they don't, but if any company is working hard to get to that point I'd say Apple is indeed leading the pack. :)

[Martog]

Top shelf components, as in buying without a doubt THE BEST Intel chipset you can buy at the moment, THE BEST Corsair Dominator memory, THE BEST Intel Core2Duo or Core 2 Quad processor you can buy THE BEST nVidia GTX280...

You actually have choice when you build a PC and the components available are better than those that are available in Macs currently.

Have to remember, just because it is the latest and greatest does NOT mean it is the best quality. Oh yes, lets take a gander at the latest, greatest nVidia chipsets from this generation and past, oh yeah, data corruption issues, even not widespread still an issue in a "top shelf component", oops, did I just debunk that for you?

Cara was going at more quality than, lets get the most expensive and fastest thing on the market that just came out that may have problems! I do remember waiting for the 45nm processors for laptops, Dell or Apple was my decision on a laptop, guess who got the "top shelf component" first? Sure wasn't Dell, I had my 45nm laptop before Dell got sold theirs.

And again, if someone wants the latest greatest they can get it built or build it themselves, there as specific uses for that much processing power, memory speed and GPU power.

Aside from the Mac Pro, all of the Apple computers are heavily intergrated in terms of stuff like video cards. You can only put so much power in the space they have in their Mac Mini, iMac, and laptops. Yes they are behind in video card support, but I am not sure if Apple is to blame there or the video card manufactures, I know on the older G3/G4 Mac's the video card had to have a Mac firmware flashed on it for it to work with a Mac, can't say if that is the case with the current Mac Pro's or not, maybe Cara can answer that one for us. If not, then it would be a matter of support at the driver level, and points at the card manufacture and Apple both because Apple generally puts new hardware support in a 10.X.X release depending on the release of the OS. Apple I think pretty much wants to throughly test the drivers instead of having the manufacture spit them out, even though there is the WHQL, doesn't mean the driver has to be signed unless its x64.

[Ayepecks]

I think Apple makes some great products, but I simply can't see myself switching to them full-time. I use them a lot at college because that's what my department uses for editing and such, but it just doesn't appeal to my like Windows does. Never had a problem with Apple, though, and doubt I ever will. Just don't see a need to change, especially when I love gaming (practically Apple's kryptonite).