Atheist group sues Bush, governor over National Day of Prayer

[LOC Veteran]

As Bush has in the past, he makes decisions based on his religious beliefs. While this isn't wrong for the average person, as President it's very wrong. Same with Sarah Palin now.

I also hope this lawsuit actually goes somewhere, politics have become way to imvolved in the process in this country and they shouldn't be involved in any way whatsoever.

This lawsuit and the people cheering for it absolutely disgust me.

If you think you are so ****ing smart not believing in God, when his existence has not been disproven any more than it has been proven, then that is your business. But most people, despite what one may conclude from judging by this high and mighty authority on religion known as Neowin, still have some religious beliefs. And it is not your ****ing right to take that away from them, any more than it is their right to impose it on you. This "National Day of Prayer" is optional, like any holiday. No one is putting a bible in your hand and a gun to your head, and saying "Repent."

With all the tangible things out there which actually make a difference for better or worse, you are fighting against something you don't even believe exists? Jesus Christ -- pun intended -- learn to pick your ****ing battles.

The problem with this National Day of Prayer isn't that it's being discussed or anything - it's that the President of the United States supports it! As President he isn't supposed to do that. He's not to support ANY religious overtones in any govermental policy.

[Ayepecks]

As Bush has in the past, he makes decisions based on his religious beliefs. While this isn't wrong for the average person, as President it's very wrong. Same with Sarah Palin now.

I also hope this lawsuit actually goes somewhere, politics have become way to imvolved in the process in this country and they shouldn't be involved in any way whatsoever.

The problem with this National Day of Prayer isn't that it's being discussed or anything - it's that the President of the United States supports it! As President he isn't supposed to do that. He's not to support ANY religious overtones in any govermental policy.

See my post. It doesn't really have religious overtones.

[BinaryFragger]

So many serious problems in the world (wars, economic problems, natural disasters, etc) yet these clowns focus fighting on a holiday they're not forced to participate in.

Maybe they should move to a country where freedom of religion (including choosing not to be part of a religion) is not allowed, and see just how 'hostile' it can be.

[remix17]

So many serious problems in the world (wars, economic problems, natural disasters, etc) yet these clowns focus fighting on a holiday they're not forced to participate in.

I think religion is a bigger problem than all those combined.

[LOC Veteran]

See my post. It doesn't really have religious overtones.

I didn't say this specific incident has religious overtones, just that the President should not support any goverment policy that includes anything religious.

[Impact]

@Binaryfragger: So true!

Also, just because someone is president doesn't mean that they can't believe in what they want.

[PricklyPoo]

The National Day of Prayer Task Force website is pretty funny.

With such quality books as "The History of Prayer in America" and "Experiencing Prayer With Jesus" it clearly does not endorse religion, let alone any specific religion. :rolleyes:

The whole idea of a "National Day of Prayer" is ridiculous in the first place.

What is the purpose...To pray more than usual? To proclaim the holiness of those who do pray?

This is no different than people trying to embed creationism in public school science curriculum. They use the excuse, "It doesn't support any specific religion." Then a second later they go on to explain how teachers will use the story of creation as described in Genesis. Aka - The Bible.

Even Bush knows that they can never blatantly support Christianity - they wouldn't have any defence when sued. So he generalizes things such as this. We all know his true intentions aren't creating a holiday to support Buddha.

Also, just because someone is president doesn't mean that they can't believe in what they want.

Would you think it was ok if the next president made his decisions based on what Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer told him?

That is his god.

[Impact]

Well, if he believed in Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer as a God, he would never be spoken to so it wouldn't bee a problem ;)

[PricklyPoo]

Well, if he believed in Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer as a God, he would never be spoken to so it wouldn't bee a problem ;)

Tell that to the people 'speaking' to thousands of gods other than yours.

Considering there is practically an unlimited amount of gods, depending on what people choose to believe, not everyone can truly be speaking to someone / something.

What makes you different from any other schizophrenic?

I for one, do not think a schizophrenic president is something any country should want.

[Mrs_Angel_D]

completely agree. exactly like Christmas, aka the birth of Jesus. funny how this group is fighting the National Day of Prayer, but have no problem celebrating Christmas.

All you people touting Christmas need to learn your history, christmas/yule whatever you choose to call it is not a Christian holiday, it was celebrated long before Christianity became one of the largest religions in the western world. Christians adopted the holiday they didn't invent it and they don't own it.

[PermaSt0ne]

So many serious problems in the world (wars, economic problems, natural disasters, etc) yet these clowns focus fighting on a holiday they're not forced to participate in.

Maybe they should move to a country where freedom of religion (including choosing not to be part of a religion) is not allowed, and see just how 'hostile' it can be.

those few people can't stop a natural disaster or a war. plus, who says they are against those happening? they are in the freedom from religion organization for a reason.

and your second line is just wrong. just because "option A" isn't as bad as "option B", doesn't mean it's not wrong and that we shouldn't improve upon it. you think america got as tolerant as it is by telling people to get out if they didn't like the current rules? wrong in every way

the problem with this national, federal holiday is that it a representation of the government. government should not have religion involved in any way. i don't think christmas should be a federal vacation. nor any other religious holidays for that matter. they absolutely need to be kept separate.

i want to know why can't you guys celebrate your religious holiday's, or even just religion in general, without involving the government? you are already guaranteed freedom in your religious choices. there's absolutely no reason for the federal government (government being the key word) to be involved

surely you'd get ****ed if the government replaced christmas with some satanic holiday. the government wouldn't force you to participate in it, you could still celebrate christmas if you wished, but you'd see it as an assault on your religion

All you people touting Christmas need to learn your history, christmas/yule whatever you choose to call it is not a Christian holiday, it was celebrated long before Christianity became one of the largest religions in the western world. Christians adopted the holiday they didn't invent it and they don't own it.

they adopted it, and use it to express the birth of their god. it is religious in every way to them

[Impact]

@PricklyPoo: Those other religions don't have the miracles to back up their faith that I have seen every week at my church. Healings of friends. My best friend was lactose intolerant for the longest time. He would throw up with just the smallest ammount of milk in anything he would eat. We prayed for him at church. They next day he ate a tub of ice cream without a problem and has never had a problem since.

[PricklyPoo]

surely you'd get ****ed if the government replaced christmas with some satanic holiday. the government wouldn't force you to participate in it, you could still celebrate christmas if you wished, but you'd see it as an assault on your religion

Haha, in my greatest dreams it will come true....

Christmas and easter + every other day now proclaimed as a religious holiday will be replaced with "National Devil Worshipping Day"

We aren't forcing anyone to participate. :rolleyes:

[Mrs_Angel_D]

they adopted it, and use it to express the birth of their god. it is religious in every way to them

My point is, that you can't use the "They have no problem celebrating christmas" argument because it's not a purely Christian holiday, lot's of other people celebrate that season for various reasons.

Edited October 5, 2008 by MetalHellsAngel

[PricklyPoo]

@PricklyPoo: Those other religions don't have the miracles to back up their faith that I have seen every week at my church. Healings of friends. My best friend was lactose intolerant for the longest time. He would throw up with just the smallest ammount of milk in anything he would eat. We prayed for him at church. They next day he ate a tub of ice cream without a problem and has never had a problem since.

Exactly....Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer recognized your foolishness when you were praying to the wrong god and took pity on your friend.

Or how about a great man I have known for most of my life. He and his wife were the most devout Christians I have ever known. He had 4 young kids and died of a brain tumor after 2 months.

If your story is proof of there being a god....Is my story proof of there not being a god?

Obviously not. The only logical explanation for these things is: they just happen.

Actually my sister is lactose-intolerant and prayed as a child to be 'cured'. She never was.

Or maybe I should listen to the ancient Greeks who were cured by Apollo....

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

@PricklyPoo: Those other religions don't have the miracles to back up their faith that I have seen every week at my church. Healings of friends. My best friend was lactose intolerant for the longest time. He would throw up with just the smallest ammount of milk in anything he would eat. We prayed for him at church. They next day he ate a tub of ice cream without a problem and has never had a problem since.

I'm fairly sure the other religions would say the same thing.

[jwjw1]

you think if this was a paid holiday...these people would refuse the money and demand they work a full day?....I wonder if they refuse the other holidays that are in some way associated with religion or a person of religious beliefs.

somehow whine and hypocrit comes to mind.

[Impact]

@Pricklypoo: When you pray for a miracle, you can't expect it to just happen instantly. Sometimes God is waiting for a certain time before he heals them (or in this case her).

[PricklyPoo]

The point is.... god doesn't heal amputees.

[PermaSt0ne]

@PricklyPoo: Those other religions don't have the miracles to back up their faith that I have seen every week at my church. Healings of friends. My best friend was lactose intolerant for the longest time. He would throw up with just the smallest ammount of milk in anything he would eat. We prayed for him at church. They next day he ate a tub of ice cream without a problem and has never had a problem since.

well if you are catholic then the official catholic church has only recognized an extremely small amount of events as true "miracles". if you aren't there have been millions of claims of miracles by hundreds of religions all over the world. miracles certainly aren't limited to just your religion, and you can't prove that your miracles are the only real ones

in fact, you can't even prove miracles happen just like you can't prove god exists. both are only supported by, and 100% rely on, lack of knowledge. but that's going off topic

we don't need the federal government representing religions, only recognizing them

[RAID 0]

Atheists, just... just stop it. Stop trying to force your believes on me! If I want to pray on the National Day of Prayer, I'll do so. If I choose not to, well... that's my choice.

I hear Christian slander all the time, esp in forums such as 4chan, Fark and the like. What I find funny is most of them are voting for.... Obama... who is... a Christian. Lack of principles they have.

Let's talk about separation of church and state.

Atheists want no prayer in schools or any image depicting religion in any public building. On the other hand, pastors can't endorse ANY candidate running for public office because of their tax exempt status. Why is the state putting speech laws in churches? Separation of church and state? Oh no... not when the shoe is on the other foot.

This is just how i feel. Take it with a grain of salt, or a tall glass of beer.

[jpcahn]

The more I learn about science the more I am convinced that there had to be an all powerful creator. Do I think he watches over me and cares whether I go to church on Sunday? Not really, but you'll also have a hard time convincing me that we went from an Amoeba or whatever to where we are now by random luck. That is just too much natural selection for me to believe. I do not think things were made in 7 days or anything like that but someone had to have planned this whole grand experiment called earth.

[leesmithg]

I for one truly hope that this lawsuit goes somewhere. It's my opinion that religion has become far to involved in politics in this country and it's time to separate the two. I'm not Christian but I do have a set of religious beliefs, that being said, my beliefs do not belong mixed up in politics in any way. There should be a clear separation of church and state, and that line has been blurred and crossed one too many times.

You write one word that means exactly the whole point, religion is a belief.

GWB and AB said G-d told them to go bomb Iraq and Afghanistan.

So what we need are politicians that as you stated totally seperate religious beliefs from their work, politics.

[Impact]

^ Agreed!

If its getting rid of any kind of religion in schools and teaching evolution, then its fine. If its the other way around, a riot's gonna happen!

@Pricklypoo: Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXXuj-bRFY...feature=related

She's not an amputee, but her legs weren't the same length and she was healed.

[PermaSt0ne]

Atheists, just... just stop it. Stop trying to force your believes on me! If I want to pray on the National Day of Prayer, I'll do so. If I choose not to, well... that's my choice.

I hear Christian slander all the time, esp in forums such as 4chan, Fark and the like. What I find funny is most of them are voting for.... Obama... who is... a Christian. Lack of principles they have.

Let's talk about separation of church and state.

Atheists want no prayer in schools or any image depicting religion in any public building. On the other hand, pastors can't endorse ANY candidate running for public office because of their tax exempt status. Why is the state putting speech laws in churches? Separation of church and state? Oh no... not when the shoe is on the other foot.

This is just how i feel. Take it with a grain of salt, or a tall glass of beer.

they aren't saying you can't pray on a certain day. they are asking the question "why do you need a federal holiday, that represents the government, in order to pray?"

and pastors can endorse candidates, they just have to give up their tax exempt status. they get special tax statuses from the federal government, thus if they want to participate then they have to keep the two issues separate

The more I learn about science the more I am convinced that there had to be an all powerful creator. Do I think he watches over me and cares whether I go to church on Sunday? Not really, but you'll also have a hard time convincing me that we went from an Amoeba or whatever to where we are now by random luck. That is just too much natural selection for me to believe. I do not think things were made in 7 days or anything like that but someone had to have planned this whole grand experiment called earth.

you have much, much, MUCH more science to "learn about". you only have an extremely limited amount of knowledge. humans didn't come from Amoeba and it wasn't random luck. the odds however, are astronomical. but then again, that's what we are talking about right? the entire universe, so astronomical odds are well suited to be here