Atheist group sues Bush, governor over National Day of Prayer

[PricklyPoo]

@Pricklypoo: Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXXuj-bRFY...feature=related

She's not an amputee, but her legs weren't the same length and she was healed.

Seen all of his videos before. Practically none of the cases were ever examined by a medical professional - which is why they are some of the only 'miracles' of their kind.

It's amazing how the further back in time you go and when there isn't a professional to examine these miracles, they seem to spontaneously happen.

There is a reason a single true "miracle" hasn't been documented when properly analyzed. It's the same reason James Randi's one-million-dollars hasn't ever been claimed.

It isn't that the amount of miracles people are claiming to have happened are decreasing, it's that now we have professionals to find the truth.

In case you didn't know, there are also videos of Pastors in other religions performing healing miracles on youtube.

This 'leg-growing' trick has been around for ages. There are MANY pastors all claiming to be able to do this....Because it's so easy to fake.

You can't fake an arm/leg growing back. "By the amazing power of god - stretch this person's leg out 1"....But we know you aren't powerful enough to heal a whole limb...So that will do!"

[comk]

Atheists, just... just stop it. Stop trying to force your believes on me! If I want to pray on the National Day of Prayer, I'll do so. If I choose not to, well... that's my choice.

I thought everyday is already a National Day of Prayer?

I hear Christian slander all the time, esp in forums such as 4chan, Fark and the like. What I find funny is most of them are voting for.... Obama... who is... a Christian. Lack of principles they have.

So most atheists don't vote for someone based on their religious background but rather their policy and stance, is that funny?

Back on the topic, since prayers don't always get answered, so I suggest a 'National Day of Get off Yer Arse and Actually Do Something About It'. Who's with me?

Edited October 5, 2008 by comet4

[Koto]

Wow. This government is turning into more and more of a theocracy day by day. I hope the FFRF is successful in suing them.

If you want a ****ing theocracy, move to Iraq.

Back on the topic, since prayers don't always get answered, so I suggest a 'National Day of Get of Yer Arse and Actually Do Something About It'. Who's with me?

I'd go for that, lol.

completely agree. exactly like Christmas, aka the birth of Jesus. funny how this group is fighting the National Day of Prayer, but have no problem celebrating Christmas.

Jesus was not born on December 25th! That was originally a pagan holiday celebrating the birthday of the sun god.

Read about it here:

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/was-jes...mber-25-faq.htm

Also, watch Zeitgeist:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

[NateB1]

I've seen *way* too much for me to ever believe God does not exist. It's things that you would have to see for yourself - if I tell them, you'd simply write me off, as I'm just one person, and one person can easily be fooled.

Oh, and about praying? Prayer doesn't do anything. It's the Listener of the prayers that does it. :) Prayer is simply a means of conversation.

As far as The National Day of Prayer, is the government giving any money? Forcing people to do it? Separation of church and state only means that the government can't choose a church (like the Church of England), and tax people to pay for it. It does not mean that religion has to be completely separate from politics. Based on my knowledge of history, separating religion and politics would be a very bad idea.

If one brings up Europe, I only need to remind them of the burgeoning Muslim population - I'd expect within 25 years or so, for the most of the secular governments of Europe to become Islamic in nature, due to the voting bloc voting Muslims in office.

If one brings up China, I only need mention of the explosive growth of Christianity there - some estimates state that China is 33% Christian - and that is under persecution from the government - where openly saying you're a Christian will bring you imprisonment (at least until recently). Look at China in 50 years to openly accept Christianity.

Take away religion, and it leaves a vacuum. One that will be filled by *something*. Don't believe me? Look at how long "true" secular governments have lasted in history...

Oh, about the birth of Jesus - no, it wasn't the 25th of December. It was more like in April. However, the Catholic church decided to use December 25 because the "pagans" used that day to celebrate Winter Solstice.

Besides, it really doesn't matter when Jesus was born - the point is that we're celebrating it as such.

[Koto]

I've seen *way* too much for me to ever believe God does not exist. It's things that you would have to see for yourself - if I tell them, you'd simply write me off, as I'm just one person, and one person can easily be fooled.

I suppose watching Part 1 of Zeitgeist won't sway your belief. Go ahead. I dare you. ^.~

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197

Prayer is simply a means of conversation.

con?ver?sa?tion

?noun

infointerchangee of thoughts, information, etc., by spoken words; oral communication between persons; talk; colloquy.

If you're "talking" to God, or your imaginary friend (same thing), it's called "prayer". If he/she/it "talks" back, it's called a delusional disorder. Please seek help.

[Minimoose]

While I don't think beliefs should be forced on anyone, simply don't say the words or don't celebrate the day if you don't believe it. Just like you don't have to celebrate Christmas -- although many atheists do, just without the religious aspect.

Christmas is a religious holiday though, not a National (In other words including everyone) Day of <religious thing here>.

I'm not against religion as some people are here, but I do think that the Atheist group should be able to sue.

The thing about Christians voting for Obama, him being Christian is just like another factor to persuade them. If they disagreed with most of his principles/whatever, and there was a atheist better suited, then I'm sure they would vote for the atheist (Although I'm not sure of how idiotic some people are so they might vote for a Christian no matter what).

Edited October 5, 2008 by Minimoose

[PermaSt0ne]

As far as The National Day of Prayer, is the government giving any money? Forcing people to do it? Separation of church and state only means that the government can't choose a church (like the Church of England), and tax people to pay for it. It does not mean that religion has to be completely separate from politics. Based on my knowledge of history, separating religion and politics would be a very bad idea.

i'm going to not debate your other points because it would be off topic. so here's this one:

first of all separation of church and state says that the government can't officially represent a religion, and must respect all the others

second, you think government and religion should be mixed do you? so you wouldn't mind if all christian holiday's were replaced with satanic ones? and our money had "death to all americans" printed on it for the muslim extremists in our country? put a sign up in the white house saying all jews are scum and should die. the government wouldn't be forcing you to participate or believe so there's no problem right?

that's called a theocracy, not a democracy

the government represents the people. america's people have many different religions. promoting one over the others is persecution and not the american way. i ask again, why do you need a federal government holiday just to pray? you already have the freedom to do it whenever and wherever you want

oh and as for your "knowledge of history", religion + politics = massive genocide and war every time. clearly you haven't read any world history at all

[abulfares]

All you people touting Christmas need to learn your history, christmas/yule whatever you choose to call it is not a Christian holiday, it was celebrated long before Christianity became one of the largest religions in the western world. Christians adopted the holiday they didn't invent it and they don't own it.

and? whats yr point?

If u r trying to convince me that 51%+ of people on earth celebrate Christmas because it was an ancient holiday, nice try.

my point is that Christmas in our world right now is religious, yet atheists choose to celebrate it in secular way (again, the majority of them do NOT do it because it used to be pagan holiday).

on similar ground, atheists can join in the National Day of Prayer (if they want to) in a secular way. maybe pray to yourself? maybe just call it "happy wishful thinking" instead of "prayer", if that makes you happy. or NOT. the whole idea of this National day is to bring the majority of people (since u can never please everyone) together on a positive ground. don't like it? move on.

yes I agree it should not have came from the President himself, but I don't think its worth suing either.

[blade1269]

Then as an atheist you are completely missing the point.

The issue here is the endorsement of religion (through legislation) by the government.

that = bad

I believe Jesus is the son of God....Bush doing this is a good thing not bad...if you don't believe im sorry for you....and i will pray for you....with Bush.

If you don't believe in something you'll far for anything....

and for those who believe in that were monkeys...fling poo :yes:

Let the flaming begin

[Lee G. Veteran]

Actually, religion should not be involved in ANYTHING and, like a viral infection in the human body, should be eradicated completely!

That four word statement is laughable and also illogical. Trusting in something that does not exist and was made up from the minds of other mortal men? Pfft, that's weakness personified!

I agree (Y)

I hope this lawsuit is successful. In my opinion if Supreme Court cases such as Engel v. Vitale ruled that prayer in public schools is unconstitutional, then this public day of prayer should be made unconstitutional too.

[mad_onion]

this is the problem with the constitution. it's nowhere specific enough, i assume that the people who wrote the constitution (and the bill of rights) thought it would be taken more generally and in the spirit of the original dream than it has been.

but on the topic making a federal day to pray is in opposition to the founding principles of the union imo (which is true of a lot of things in US politics) whether it's unconstitutional is something else.

[Ruffneckting]

@Pricklypoo: When you pray for a miracle, you can't expect it to just happen instantly. Sometimes God is waiting for a certain time before he heals them (or in this case her).

So how come your friend got to the front of the queue and PricklyPoo's sister is still waiting?

[Mrs_Angel_D]

and? whats yr point?

If u r trying to convince me that 51%+ of people on earth celebrate Christmas because it was an ancient holiday, nice try.

my point is that Christmas in our world right now is religious, yet atheists choose to celebrate it in secular way (again, the majority of them do NOT do it because it used to be pagan holiday).

on similar ground, atheists can join in the National Day of Prayer (if they want to) in a secular way. maybe pray to yourself? maybe just call it "happy wishful thinking" instead of "prayer", if that makes you happy. or NOT. the whole idea of this National day is to bring the majority of people (since u can never please everyone) together on a positive ground. don't like it? move on.

yes I agree it should not have came from the President himself, but I don't think its worth suing either.

Sadly You missed my point. Christmas is not a Christian holiday so pointing out that atheists celebrate that time of year means nothing. No Christmas in our world right now is not always religious, there are tons of folks Now who enjoy giving gifts and spending time with family and do so without involving religious beliefs of any kind.

But all of this pails in comparison to the fact that the government is involving itself in religion at all. In a country where the population has such a diverse belief system it would be and is a major step backwards for the government to get behind or back one particular faith. I also hope that we can someday remove the statement "In God We trust" from our cash as not everyone does, and something like our money should represent the fact that we are a country of tolerance. There are far to many places in this country where the lines have been grayed and blurred in respect to religion. Another instance I can point to is that The pledge of Allegiance includes the statement "One Nation Under God". Why is God involved?

Andy why would atheists join in on a day of prayer who are they gonna pray to?

[-Vivicidal-]

Religion should be kept separate from politics. You are free to belive and worship what you will, but not to go into politics and use that to lever your religion. By all means, be religious and go into politics, just don't force it on people.

[vip]

Then as an atheist you are completely missing the point.

The issue here is the endorsement of religion (through legislation) by the government.

that = bad

So true, I *really* hope that something comes about of this. I don't believe in anything religious, and like most things I just ignore it, but when the Govt. get's involved and is endorsing it, it's not such a good thing, what happened to the separation of government and state?? :/

[Minimoose]

I believe Jesus is the son of God....Bush doing this is a good thing not bad...if you don't believe im sorry for you....and i will pray for you....with Bush.

If you don't believe in something you'll far for anything....

and for those who believe in that were monkeys...fling poo :yes:

If you argue against something you should research it first, especially something scientific (evolution).

1. Restate that second sentence, in proper grammar so people can understand what your trying to say

2. Humans are classed under Apes, not Monkeys and both of these are under the order of Primates. If you can't make a point in a mature way, e.g insulting people who disagree with your beliefs, then don't bother to make one at all. Seeing as religion holds back science more than it doesn't then surely you should be flinging poo while scientists do research, or other useful intelligent things.

3. Stop using the ellipsis if you don't know how to use it properly, using it... after... every few... words... is so annoying to read. It is a hang in a sentence (three full stops, not four as you used many times), if you speak like that then you should go to a neurologist.

4. Some Christians believe in evolution, so do they 'fling poo' as well?

Go and play around with this, might help you learn a little: Animal Diversity

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

I've seen *way* too much for me to ever believe God does not exist. It's things that you would have to see for yourself - if I tell them, you'd simply write me off, as I'm just one person, and one person can easily be fooled.

Oh, and about praying? Prayer doesn't do anything. It's the Listener of the prayers that does it. :) Prayer is simply a means of conversation.

As far as The National Day of Prayer, is the government giving any money? Forcing people to do it? Separation of church and state only means that the government can't choose a church (like the Church of England), and tax people to pay for it. It does not mean that religion has to be completely separate from politics. Based on my knowledge of history, separating religion and politics would be a very bad idea.

If one brings up Europe, I only need to remind them of the burgeoning Muslim population - I'd expect within 25 years or so, for the most of the secular governments of Europe to become Islamic in nature, due to the voting bloc voting Muslims in office.

If one brings up China, I only need mention of the explosive growth of Christianity there - some estimates state that China is 33% Christian - and that is under persecution from the government - where openly saying you're a Christian will bring you imprisonment (at least until recently). Look at China in 50 years to openly accept Christianity.

Take away religion, and it leaves a vacuum. One that will be filled by *something*. Don't believe me? Look at how long "true" secular governments have lasted in history...

Oh, about the birth of Jesus - no, it wasn't the 25th of December. It was more like in April. However, the Catholic church decided to use December 25 because the "pagans" used that day to celebrate Winter Solstice.

Besides, it really doesn't matter when Jesus was born - the point is that we're celebrating it as such.

I agree with you. It does not matter if every one agrees. People are free to have their own beliefs and ideas. I believe in God, some believe in The Giant Spaghetti Monster, some do not believe in anything and that is fine.One day we all will find out the truth. :rolleyes:

[roadgeek9]

So true, I *really* hope that something comes about of this. I don't believe in anything religious, and like most things I just ignore it, but when the Govt. get's involved and is endorsing it, it's not such a good thing, what happened to the separation of government and state?? :/

I think you meant church and state, but anyway...

I have no idea. My grandfather is an EXTREMELY religious Christian and when I told him I was an atheist, he dragged me to church with him, while I watched people get told "Now, prey and sing for God, he is the creator of all, we are all God's children. We must give up all of our sins, so we all can go to heaven." Here was my reaction... :x. Seriously, why do people believe this?

Then we got into a debate on the separation of church and state. He told me that this country was founded on Christian principles so therefore there is no need for a separation of church and state. I told him that just because this country was founded on Christian principles doesn't make our government's official religion "Christianity", I also told him that our founding fathers came here for several reasons one of those reasons was to get away from religious discrimination, and to have a freedom of religious choice. Then he asked me the dumbest question he could possibly ask me, "Are you trying to talk me out of my faith?"

[tiagosilva29]

He told me that this country was founded on Christian principles so therefore there is no need for a separation of church and state.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Neither. This country was founded so that people can practice a religion of their own choosing.

[lalalawawawa]

I believe Jesus is the son of God....Bush doing this is a good thing not bad...if you don't believe im sorry for you....and i will pray for you....with Bush.

So now who is your God? God or Jesus? :huh:

I have no idea. My grandfather is an EXTREMELY religious Christian and when I told him I was an atheist, he dragged me to church with him, while I watched people get told "Now, prey and sing for God, he is the creator of all, we are all God's children. We must give up all of our sins, so we all can go to heaven." Here was my reaction... sick.gif. Seriously, why do people believe this?

Same thing with my grandmother. When I told her that I don't believe in god, she was like "How can you think of such things? Are you crazy? Have you been to some devil sects? God is the truth. We are all Christians and so are you." I was like "What The F**k. :x

Edited October 5, 2008 by KavazovAngel

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

So now who is your God? God or Jesus? :huh:

Read about "The Trinity".

[+SOOPRcow MVC]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This national day of prayer does not fall into the category of unconstitutional. It endorses no particular religion or set of believes and it does not prohibit the free exercise of those believes.

All and all, I think people need to get some thicker skin. This is just another cause of political correctness and there is nothing in the world that bothers me more then political correctness :)

Oh and for your information I am not a religious person.

[lalalawawawa]

It is funny how religious people, especially the old ones, reject atheists. Few days ago I was walking with a friend near a church, and there were two old women standing nearby. My friend did the usual, can't think of the word right now, trinity thing and I did nothing (as I am an atheist). Then suddenly the women started bashing me "How can you do that, you have no soul" and other similar things. I just told them to GTFAFM.

Apparently religious people are more aggressive than atheists. (at least here in my country)

[wst50]

This "National Day of Prayer" is optional, like any holiday.

The name is the problem. In the word national, it included people who don't want to be included. Also,?the idea?that?religion?of any sort?is actively supported by?the state?is disgusting. It should?be?tolerated by?the state,?not opposed,?but?the?****?is it?doing?being?factored into political discussions?

I can't eradicate religion completely, but if I could, I would. It's all based on the arbitrary and imagination. Politics should never include the arbitrary and imagination.