Teacher tells students Linux is

[Mouldy Punk]

You guys all call her stupid and everything, but think about it; You're all on a technology forum - you all know a thing or 2 about computers. The teacher on the other hand, might be an elderly PE teacher who doesn't need any knowledge of computers or ever had the experience with them to know anything about linux. If all she's been taught is windows, and she is either taught or assumes that windows is the only way to go, and she reads crap in the papers about pirating software being illegal - of course she's going to assume that a free operating system that isn't windows is a bit suspect.

You call her stupid, I just think she's not IT smart - for probably fair-enough reasons (it's not her subject area).

For someone who doesn't know much about the industry; it would be very easy to get sucked into the crap that the media are always spilling, and then apply it to real-world scenarios assuming it's valid information. I hope that once she does her research, she'll learn that she's mistaken and apologise.

Of course- if she was an IT teacher, my argument is moot and she should really know what she's spewing :p

[markwolfe Veteran]

You guys all call her stupid and everything, but think about it; You're all on a technology forum - you all know a thing or 2 about computers. The teacher on the other hand, might be an elderly PE teacher who doesn't need any knowledge of computers or ever had the experience with them to know anything about linux.

...

You must have missed the statement where she claimed to be familiar with Linux already.

Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college

[HawkMan]

No. The initial letter was more ignorant and "stupid", as it was factually incorrect about no software being free, and it being harmful and potentially illegal.

The reply stated opinions, and "superior" is subjective and cannot be quantified.

Stating falsehoods and asserting them to be factual is much worse of an assault on veracity than is the expression of opinions that you, personally, do not hold, HawkMan.

No his reply was full of other falsehood that stating that Linux was superior in many ways as a fact, he didn't provide it as an opinion, he provided it as a fact, along with several other things. wich definately aren' true or proveable.

I have nothing against open source software or those who support it. BUT I do have a problem with the evangelists who think want to convince others that OS is better than other software, simply because it's open source, including other free but not Open source software.

This guy sounds exactly like a person that would say somethign like this "This is OpenPaint, an open source carbon copy of MS paint, but it's better because it's open source, not only that, it's also better than photoshop, because it's open source"

You don't have to defend the extremest just ebcause you are on their side of the fence. I'm a windows guy, but I don't think windows is ALLWAYS the best option, and I definatley don't agree with the extremeists fanboys who think you shoudl allways above all use windows.

[Mouldy Punk]

You must have missed the statement where she claimed to be familiar with Linux already.

Doing what most teachers do;

If you don't know about it; sound like you do :p

If she was to be honest and say "I don't know about this, looks dodgy yada yada yada" The kids would have argued against her, saying that it's perfectly legit. Then she potentially has the issue of trusting some kids (who could be lying) about something that in another situation, could be quite serious.

For example;

If some kids were on about downloading a new game, say GTA 4. Teacher comes over and says "I don't think that looks very legal", the kids are obviously going to say "It is, the game publisher released it for free on the web", the teacher could trust the kids and let them carry on doing their illegal deeds. If the teacher just came out and said "That's not legal, don't do it" - regardless of their lack of knowledge of the game's release or price or anything, the kids would stop (so long as the teacher sounded like they knew what that were on about). The teacher could have been wrong, the game might have been released for free - but considering the options of; a) Being honest and as a result allowing kids to download a game illegally, or, b) Make something up and stop the kids from downloading it (either legally or illegally) -- it makes more sense to go with option b. You might be wrong, but there is no risk of any illegal doing be done.

[sanctified Veteran]

Doing what most teachers do;

If you don't know about it; sound like you do :p

If she was to be honest and say "I don't know about this, looks dodgy yada yada yada" The kids would have argued against her, saying that it's perfectly legit. Then she potentially has the issue of trusting some kids (who could be lying) about something that in another situation, could be quite serious.

For example;

If some kids were on about downloading a new game, say GTA 4. Teacher comes over and says "I don't think that looks very legal", the kids are obviously going to say "It is, the game publisher released it for free on the web", the teacher could trust the kids and let them carry on doing their illegal deeds. If the teacher just came out and said "That's not legal, don't do it" - regardless of their lack of knowledge of the game's release or price or anything, the kids would stop (so long as the teacher sounded like they knew what that were on about). The teacher could have been wrong, the game might have been released for free - but considering the options of; a) Being honest and as a result allowing kids to download a game illegally, or, b) Make something up and stop the kids from downloading it (either legally or illegally) -- it makes more sense to go with option b. You might be wrong, but there is no risk of any illegal doing be done.

But then she is continuing the lie with the parent?

[Mouldy Punk]

But then she is continuing the lie with the parent?

That's where she went too far IMO. She should have done her research before she contacted the parents.

[sanctified Veteran]

That's where she went too far IMO. She should have done her research before she contacted the parents.

Nevertheless, the parent is acting upon the belief that she understand technology beause she is saying so. Otherwise the response could've been in a condescending manner (and people who are never satisfied would attack that)

[Kronir]

The reply was as stupid and brainwashed as the original letter though.

Well the teacher was just plainignroant and dumb.

The starks guy, he was more of the Brainwashed fanatic kind, unable to see anythign beyond his desire to spread what HE thinks is right, down to lying about it and it's advantages and whatnot.

Indeed. Frankly, I just found the whole incident hilarious. The reply letter did sound too fanatical, though. Sounds like he can't accept the fact not everyone knows (or even cares) about the very existence of Linux. :p

[sanctified Veteran]

Sounds like he can't accept the fact not everyone knows (or even cares) about the very existence of Linux. :p

I think that is not the point.

[Lechio]

No his reply was full of other falsehood that stating that Linux was superior in many ways as a fact, he didn't provide it as an opinion, he provided it as a fact, along with several other things. wich definately aren' true or proveable.

I have nothing against open source software or those who support it. BUT I do have a problem with the evangelists who think want to convince others that OS is better than other software, simply because it's open source, including other free but not Open source software.

This guy sounds exactly like a person that would say somethign like this "This is OpenPaint, an open source carbon copy of MS paint, but it's better because it's open source, not only that, it's also better than photoshop, because it's open source"

You don't have to defend the extremest just ebcause you are on their side of the fence. I'm a windows guy, but I don't think windows is ALLWAYS the best option, and I definatley don't agree with the extremeists fanboys who think you shoudl allways above all use windows.

I'm one of those people who consider that software is better when it's free, open source. It gives me great comfort in knowing that I can look at the source code of this application and know what I'm running on my system.

Also may I suggest to you the use of Firefox as web browser? It comes with a very handy spell checker, I personally make extensive use of that open source tool. :yes:

[sanctified Veteran]

I'm one of those people who consider that software is better when it's free, open source.

Really?

The Gimp vs Photoshop :p

I like the open source community, but lets try to not be naive or extremist, not everything is better just because is open source.

[portauthority]

Haha, now if only she can make the Linux trolls disappear :shifty:

[Lechio]

Really?

The Gimp vs Photoshop :p

I like the open source community, but lets try to not be naive or extremist, not everything is better just because is open source.

I do not consider that my reply was extremist. It is my personal opinion (like I've stated in my previous post) that software is better when it's free, open source.

I do consider that Photoshop is a great tool, and I use it sometimes too. I do also use The Gimp.

But tell me, what in your opinion, do you consider to be wrong with The Gimp? :)

[HawkMan]

Yeah, I'd use FF, except everything else except the spell checker sucks. and I have or can have spell checkers on opera or IE, I just never use the one in IE, since I'm just posting on a forum and I frankly don't care all that much, since I'm only posting here while doing something else.

Now tell me, for the 99.9999999% of users who aren't programmers. what benefits do open source give them ? Nothing. Free is one thing, I like free software. and if an open source product is in all other ways as good and comfortable to use as a free or non free non OS software, I'd probably choose the Open source one, though, the choise between the free and the OS one would be between wich one looked the bes honestly, all other things bein equal.

Being able to tinker with the code has no value to me, even if I could and know how to do it, I have no itnerest in doing it, I want to use the software, not have to modify it.

And using "Yeah but you can get changes to the sotware done and submitted faster because of all the oders sing it" doesn't hold water either.

Yeah, thousands of coders use, for example, FF, and some of them submit changes. but honestly the work required for a submitted patch isn't cost effective. When a non project coder submits a patch, first the Mozilla coer have to go throught he ode he changed or added, makingsure it's clean and ok and all that, that takes time and may require rewriting it to make it clean. then they have to do a full Q&A for that patch, against itself and other fucntions it may or may not affect.

If you simpl where to sumit the idea to the mozilla team and have them do it, it'd actually be less work. They write the code, and then they know the code, and they do it properly right away. This is the one step you're supposed to avoid, but you can't avoid anyway since you still have to do all that work for subitted patches. and often Their own patches will have less Q&A time required because most of it is being done while they code the patch, and parts of it can be done while they do Q&A for other changes they do at the same time.

So honestly the only people are the HUGE minority of coders who wish to do changes to the software for themselves. For everyone else, there's no reason to choose open source over clsed sourced freeware. it's like Notepad ++, yeah,it's free and open source, but it's still nowhere near as good, or fast as editplus, wich cost money, but is definately worth it, if just for the much better shell integration alone.

[sanctified Veteran]

I do not consider that my reply was extremist. It is my personal opinion (like I've stated in my previous post) that software is better when it's free, open source.

I do consider that Photoshop is a great tool, and I use it sometimes too. I do also use The Gimp.

But tell me, what in your opinion, do you consider to be wrong with The Gimp? :)

Just an example: To date it cant handle (at least correctly) the pletora of color profiles used for design printing, a must for designers. For the same reason any attempt of calibration is futile.

I have many other complains, but I will keep to myself some because I know the open source nature of the app allows the developers to modify most of the app, yet they dont do it (The default GUI irritates me!) But other app quirks referes to color and shape handling, high res formats, raw formats and automate tasks.

[The Canadian]

Okay, for the uninformed people...which seems to be the majority replying to this posting; I am NOT Ken Starks nor does this take place in Canada! A little research and you would have found out this is down in Texas...nothing to do with Canada at all!

[dead.cell]

I do not consider that my reply was extremist. It is my personal opinion (like I've stated in my previous post) that software is better when it's free, open source.

I do consider that Photoshop is a great tool, and I use it sometimes too. I do also use The Gimp.

But tell me, what in your opinion, do you consider to be wrong with The Gimp? :)

Sorry, but I couldn't see myself using Gimp over Photoshop at all either. You are totally entitled to your opinion though. :)

As for the topic at hand... man, I remember having teachers that got scared whenever they didn't know what something was. It's a "better safe than sorry" policy, where they won't believe you until they get the same confirmation from above. You can kind of understand where they're coming from if you knew how often kids try to fool their teachers into believing something.

Hell, I remember whenever we had a substitute bus driver, we'd give her wrong directions all at once making her think she really messed up. So we'd go driving around some other neighborhood just for the heck of it. :p

[markwolfe Veteran]

No his reply was full of other falsehood that stating that Linux was superior in many ways as a fact, he didn't provide it as an opinion, he provided it as a fact, along with several other things. wich definately aren' true or proveable.

...

Quite frankly, Linux does have several ways that it is superior. The package management/update system is superior to what Windows has. The modularity is superior. The ability to scale up into clusters and down to embedded is superior. Those are a few ways that Linux does offer superiority to Windows. Is it the best solution to everyone? No. These items, as I have said, are subjective and may not be important criteria to everyone.

Teacher stated falsehoods as facts. The reply was opinions (that have foundation) but values may vary by individual or application.

Please, let's play a game, if you are inclined to lose. You point out one "lie" that the reply stated, and I will point out one that the original threat stated. We can add up points. I think you will get 0 points, because a statement that "Linux is superior to Windows in several ways" is... well... true. Unless you are stating that Windows is superior to Linux in absolutely every way, without exception.

[Lechio]

Just an example: To date it cant handle (at least correctly) the pletora of color profiles used for design printing, a must for designers. For the same reason any attempt of calibration is futile.

I have many other complains, but I will keep to myself some because I know the open source nature of the app allows the developers to modify most of the app, yet they dont do it (The default GUI irritates me!) But other app quirks referes to color and shape handling, high res formats, raw formats and automate tasks.

The Gimp is a different tool than Photoshop, it requires habituation and time to learn its ways. If the default GUI of a program irritates you, maybe you should firstly consider handling that irritation. Take a Tai Chi class or something of similar... :p

After that done you can go look at The Gimp and try to configure it to better fit your preferences. You know that you can get rid of those floating windows don't you? I don't like those either and have The Gimp configured so it won't have any floating windows.

Filters and automated tasks are nice. The Gimp has a few of those and more are available for download as extras. And you can even make your own filters easily, how cool is that? :)

EDIT: Also this part:

I have many other complains, but I will keep to myself some because I know the open source nature of the app allows the developers to modify most of the app

Don't keep those to yourself. That's a very selfish attitude of yours to keep that to yourself. If something doesn't work as it should and you think it could be better if it was done any other way please do speak your mind about it. Report it as a bug / wish. Doing such things won't hurt the programmers feelings... :)

Edited December 11, 2008 by Lechio

[Dane]

"Every group has a Karen, ands shes always a bag of douche!" -Dane Cook.

Sorry I had to say it.

[sanctified Veteran]

Filters and automated tasks are nice. The Gimp has a few of those and more are available for download as extras. And you can even make your own filters easily, how cool is that? :)

And never talked about filters :huh: and honestly, you can do just the same with Photoshop. also, it seems you totaly ignored the "color profiling" part of my argument.

[HawkMan]

As I said, the guy made out his opinions as fact. subjectively it may have been correct, but he didn't reply as if it was subjective, he replied as if all his points where hard facts.

and that makes him as bad as those he argues with.

and I would point out a few of his lies, but then I have to giv some effort and go back to page one and read all that crap again, I'm to lazy to bother to go back, and I don't give enough of a sh** to read that crap again i I got paid for it.

[afusion]

I cannot believe an ignorant fool especially a Teacher would do something like this. He knows better but is just being a tard about it.

[markwolfe Veteran]

As I said, the guy made out his opinions as fact. subjectively it may have been correct, but he didn't reply as if it was subjective, he replied as if all his points where hard facts.

and that makes him as bad as those he argues with.

and I would point out a few of his lies, but then I have to giv some effort and go back to page one and read all that crap again, I'm to lazy to bother to go back, and I don't give enough of a sh** to read that crap again i I got paid for it.

So, you concede that he expressed items that are subjective, and not lies. Whereas the teacher clearly stated items that were demonstrably false.

Sorry you didn't like his tone. I didn't like the tone of either "letter". It is just one was based on falsehoods, and the other on opinions.

[Lechio]

And never talked about filters :huh: and honestly, you can do just the same with Photoshop. also, it seems you totaly ignored the "color profiling" part of my argument.

What did you mean by automated tasks? I consider a filter to be an automated task.

EDIT: I haven't ignored your "color profiling" question. I've just abstained myself of replying to that as I do not make prints, that option is of no interest to me, and don't have deep knowledge over it.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Lechio