So.. for all the mac users who have tried windows 7...

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I like it, it's a good OS, but most of that goodness comes from Vista, Windows 7 is just an improvement over it (more polish, new API's, etc., All the large changes were in Vista)

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

If it still feels as quick and polished as it does when it rolls out to RTM I think it'll be a winner for Microsoft.

I immediately liked Windows 7 as soon as I installed the beta - all the things that bugged me about Vista were addressed and they'd put some thought into some genuinely new & useful features.

TBH I could be tempted to ditch Mac ownership and come back to a Windows PC. As I keep saying the lack of graphics performance on the iMac (with no suitable and affordable upgrade option) is already annoying me enough - now that Microsoft have unbroken what they'd done with Vista, I'd have no qualms about switching back.

[RAID 0]

Nice OS, but it has the same eccentricities of classic Windows, which I have moved on from. This means non-standard gui interfaces, non-standard keyboard shortcuts, and other little perks which separate OS X from the norm.

I have a question. Since Windows has more market share and a bigger user base... wouldn't the Apple have the non-standard gui and non-standard Keyboard shortcuts?

[EnzoFX]

Great new taskbar!

But I don't like that it still takes up the whole bottom of the screen, a dock really still feels more ideal, as it is centered. They probably don't want to mimic the dock though =/

[Denholm]

I have a question. Since Windows has more market share and a bigger user base... wouldn't the Apple have the non-standard gui and non-standard Keyboard shortcuts?

Windows only has a bigger market share because it's a cheap option and as hard as Microsoft tries - Windows is not a premium quality platform. It's a schizophrenic collection of ideas and implementations cobbled together into a box and labelled 'Windows'.

As far as your standard and non-standard keyboard shortcut argument, I don't get it, or was it a sarcastic comment?

[giga Veteran]

I have a question. Since Windows has more market share and a bigger user base... wouldn't the Apple have the non-standard gui and non-standard Keyboard shortcuts?

You'd think so, but that's sadly not the case. User interface guidelines are just taken more seriously with third party Mac developers.

Something as simple as a universal CMD+Q (Quit application) can't even be found in the Windows world, no matter if you're using 7 or XP.

[bloodrain]

IMHO - it wasn't worth the switch back for me.

I have been fond of XP for a long time, even have tried all flavors of Vista and still no switch. For me, it isn't a Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux thing. I just found that the Mac was my cup of tea for the time as far as abilities for my requirements. Sure, a PC could do it an all, but the Mac was where I was heading to and the time was right to do it when I did. For me, most anything I could want to do on Windows, I can do on the Mac with either similar software or the same.

I wish more people would think how you do. Unfortunatly everyone thinks it is windows vs. mac. vs. linux. What it comes down to is what does the best job for you, not what bandwagoners think is the best. For me its Ubuntu and XP. When someone wants to use my pc, I start up ubuntu so they cant screw up anything :-)

[DavidM]

Windows only has a bigger market share because it's a cheap option and as hard as Microsoft tries - Windows is not a premium quality platform. It's a schizophrenic collection of ideas and implementations cobbled together into a box and labelled 'Windows'.

As far as your standard and non-standard keyboard shortcut argument, I don't get it, or was it a sarcastic comment?

The Mac Mini is a cheap option that nobody chooses, is it not a "premium quality platform"? Apple is better at "controlling" the Mac "style" than Microsoft is the PC's platform because.... drum roll please, they DON"T control it.

They only make the Operating System, however they ARE getting better about all of Windows looking the same, still a ways to go, but better. They are working toward a more unified gui in Windows 7.

He was saying that since Microsoft has more market share and more people use Windows, wouldn't the less used keyboard short cuts be considered non-standard? Makes sense to me, but I'm a Vista/openSuse user what do I know? :)

[abcdefg]

I just don't like to see FUD being spread about operating systems, whether it's Microsoft zealots bashing Apple or Apple fans bashing Microsoft.

Then why do you post something like this:

And that fact that it appeals to everyone and their dog is the reason it owns upwards of 90% of the market.

You know damn well that people don't choose Window$. It comes pre-installed.

So you like facts? Have some:

http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.p...005010107100653

[Quillz]

You'd think so, but that's sadly not the case. User interface guidelines are just taken more seriously with third party Mac developers.

Something as simple as a universal CMD+Q (Quit application) can't even be found in the Windows world, no matter if you're using 7 or XP.

I've never used a Windows application that didn't support Alt+F4.

[DavidM]

Then why do you post something like this:

You know damn well that people don't choose Window$. It comes pre-installed.

So you like facts? Have some:

http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.p...005010107100653

I believe Apple sells computers every where in the world, don't they? If not they sell them online and will ship them right to you. Microsoft does not have a monopoly at my local Best Buy, I can walk right in and buy several models of laptops and both Mac Mini models.

Why are you posting legal crap about Microsoft? Apple has had their share of legal troubles, I believe their last lawsuit was against a school for it's logo. Nice!

[Quillz]

I believe Apple sells computers every where in the world, don't they? If not they sell them online and will ship them right to you. Microsoft does not have a monopoly at my local Best Buy, I can walk right in and buy several models of laptops and both Mac Mini models.

Why are you posting legal crap about Microsoft? Apple has had their share of legal troubles, I believe their last lawsuit was against a school for it's logo. Nice!

I think his point is that Microsoft has been accused in the past of monopolistic behavior, while Apple hasn't.

[Melfster]

If Apple had the same amount of market share people would be claiming apple is monopolistic. The problem with apple is that they are more control freak then Microsoft. Apple has not been very successful in the business sector yet although that may change if apple decides to open up.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I think his point is that Microsoft has been accused in the past of monopolistic behavior, while Apple hasn't.

Not just accused, they were found guilty.

Of course, they weren't found guilty of having a monopoly (not necessarily a bad thing), they were found guilty of abusing their power to force competitors out of the market place.

[HistoricalNeowin]

You'd think so, but that's sadly not the case. User interface guidelines are just taken more seriously with third party Mac developers.

Something as simple as a universal CMD+Q (Quit application) can't even be found in the Windows world, no matter if you're using 7 or XP.

As above, ALT+F4, it's implemented by the OS. Or how about CTRL+C?

As for using Win7 on a Mac, I've used Vista on my Macbook as the only OS since I bought it a few years ago and I've been using Win7 for the past few months. Every now and then I can't turn off the WiFi and have to restart which is annoying, other than that though all is good and battery is better than on vista. I can't asses performance though as its just a laptop, I hardly game on it, it's run as fast as I could want.

[Shadrack]

If you didn't like Vista then you won't like Windows 7 much more. The "superbar" is a step up from the task bar and mimics the Mac OS Dock.

Eye candy aside, the underlying problems with Windows when compared to Mac OS are:

1. An overly complex program installation and (more importantly) uninstallation paradigm.

2. The Control Panel has become overly complicated. There is no more "classic" view..instead things are now more buried in sub-menus and dialog boxes than they ever have been.

3. The Windows Registry still exists.... need I say more?

I like Mac OS, and wish I could use it more. But the reality is the applications that I have (as a matter of financial security) to use are Windows only.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I installed it on my iMac via Boot Camp, and so far I'm positively surprised. As has been said before: Win7 is Vista like it should have been back in 2006.

Is it good enough to make me switch back 100%? No.

Am I going to buy it after RTM and keep a dual-boot configuration? You bet.

[HistoricalNeowin]

I think his point is that Microsoft has been accused in the past of monopolistic behavior, while Apple hasn't.

Apple hasn't been accused because they have a smaller market share.

MS include IE, they get in trouble. Apple include Safari, nobody cares

MS includes WMP, they get in trouble. Apple includes iTunes, nobody cares

[Denis W. Veteran]

I've never used a Windows application that didn't support Alt+F4.

And this comes down to the different philosophies the two OSes have. Windows being traditionally document-centric, and OS X application-centric. Alt+F4 will close the current window but will not necessarily terminate the entire application and related processes.

That said, they could implement something like Windows+F4 that will close all grouped windows.

[HistoricalNeowin]

3. The Windows Registry still exists.... need I say more?

Yes, what's wrong with that? :)

What if they called it the iDatabase? Magic storage area? Would that fix it?

And this comes down to the different philosophies the two OSes have. Windows being traditionally document-centric, and OS X application-centric. Alt+F4 will close the current window but will not necessarily terminate the entire application and related processes.

That said, they could implement something like Windows+F4 that will close all grouped windows.

ALT+F4 will close the process and all associated threads of the process you ask it to terminate. If you have multiples if the same process open it will not kill all of them as they are different processes merely with the same name. So if you have two word documents open in two word processes then it will only close one of them.

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

.....

First, there is no such thing as "user-friendly." It's a myth. It all comes down to what each individual user is more comfortable with using. You obviously love Mac OS X, and I don't. Right away, Windows is more user-friendly for me, and it's not for you. And also please explain more about this "design culture" at Microsoft.

....

Actually, there is such a thing as user friendly. If you don't believe that, why bother with a GUI for your OS? Or a mouse? Why not go back to punch cards? Oh because it makes it easier to use in some respects...

Computers shouldn't need training courses and books. It should be obvious what to do just by looking at it or come with a lot of well written assistance built in.

I do agree that it is mostly down to personal preference, but fundamentally the people who design software need to make it easy and friendly to use. No matter how much the l33tists poo poo it because they want to feel special and hardcore, clunky and hard to use equipment doesn't benefit anyone.

.....

He was saying that since Microsoft has more market share and more people use Windows, wouldn't the less used keyboard short cuts be considered non-standard? Makes sense to me, but I'm a Vista/openSuse user what do I know? :)

I thought it was more to do with having the same standards between all applications within the OS. For example, if CMD + P opens a print dialogue box in one application, you'd expect it to do the same elsewhere.

As far as I know, Windows has a lot of "universal" shortcuts that are kept reasonably consistent, but it's not as consistent as OS X. We all also know that the GUI is not as consistent in Windows as it could be. I've not noticed any interfaces that didn't look right in OS X yet.

If Apple had the same amount of market share people would be claiming apple is monopolistic. The problem with apple is that they are more control freak then Microsoft. Apple has not been very successful in the business sector yet although that may change if apple decides to open up.

They are probably too expensive for most businesses, and a lot of specialist software is Windows only. Businesses just want the job done, as cheaply as possible.

[Shadrack]

What if they called it the iDatabase? Magic storage area? Would that fix it?

No, that wouldn't fix it. They need to figure out another way of going about a system wide database, and I'm not sure what that is. I do think, however, that programs need to be self-contained. I do not like that a program registers itself as the default program to open a particular file format (for example). That program may be nice and ask me, but it doesn't have to in order to make the change in my Windows Registry.

If I uninstall a program, all the crap it threw in my Windows Registry should be removed are reverted back to default settings. The problem with this, is that I am relying on the software author to provide this service to me. This service should be something Microsoft provides for me by having superior code in Windows that guarantees clean uninstalls of programs.

[bryonhowley]

I used to be a avid PC user but got sick and tired of all the BS trying to keep it running in every aspect, I haven't had to worry about a single thing with MAC for almost 2 years now it just works so, hush your mouth.. :)

The same thing can be said for PC in the 6 years I can XP I only had to re-install once and that was due to a hard drive failure and the the OS. That PC is still running XP now serving my audio and Video to my network.

My IMac however has had the OS reloaded twice once because of a kernel panic during an update after the restart it was stuck in a constant reboot loop. I can't remember why I had to reinstall the second time. But I like both OS's and they both have there good points and bad no OS is perfect. I do like where Windows 7 is going though sofar it has run much better than I would have expected for a Beta1.

[HistoricalNeowin]

No, that wouldn't fix it. They need to figure out another way of going about a system wide database, and I'm not sure what that is. I do think, however, that programs need to be self-contained. I do not like that a program registers itself as the default program to open a particular file format (for example). That program may be nice and ask me, but it doesn't have to in order to make the change in my Windows Registry.

If I uninstall a program, all the crap it threw in my Windows Registry should be removed are reverted back to default settings. The problem with this, is that I am relying on the software author to provide this service to me. This service should be something Microsoft provides for me by having superior code in Windows that guarantees clean uninstalls of programs.

The reason why I made the comment about changing the name is if you try to replace the registry with a "better" system, you just end up making another database, and it wouldn't be any different. There seems to be this myth going around that using a registry is inherently bad, Mac will obviously store all its OS wide settings somewhere and it will probably look similar to the registry (a DB).

When it comes to applications, they can work just like on a mac if they want, they can have all their settings in a self contained folder, they can politely ask you if you want them to work with certain file types etc. The registry is option when creating programs, it is not mandatory.

You can say that Windows should manage this stuff and take power away from programs, but then programmers can't do what they want and they won't be happy either.

You can't please everybody :)

[rajputwarrior]

Nice OS, but it has the same eccentricities of classic Windows, which I have moved on from. This means non-standard gui interfaces, non-standard keyboard shortcuts, and other little perks which separate OS X from the norm.

In terms of actual software apps: adium, time machine, growl, terminal, bowtie, preview, fontcase, candybar, keynote, system preferences.

But all in all, I can't let go of dmg drag/drop installs, application preference files management (no registry), cmd+h, standard menubar, hot corners, column view, quick look, dialog sheets, etc.

i would agree with that, windows 7 is great, but it still feels like windows and that's why i'll prolly not use it as much as i do a mac... I think OSX is still miles ahead of windows in terms of multi tasking, but windows 7 does help.