F1 World Championship 2009 Thread

[MightyJordan]

Was looking into it a bit with one of my housemates, and it looks like Brawn don't actually have a number 3 driver at the moment, so what'd happen if he did leave?

My guess is they'll take on Bruno Senna, the man Barrichelo just pipped to the second driver spot.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

that among the other drivers who i'm sure would wanna jump ship along side a load of A1/GP2 drivers

[Zoom7000]

@Nicholas-c: lol @ "sauce"

Here is my "sauce" for this article: BBC - Sport

Ferrari to discuss future in F1

Ferrari have announced they will meet on Tuesday to discuss their future involvement in Formula 1 racing.

The move comes just two weeks after F1 governing body the FIA introduced new cost-cutting measures encouraging teams to operate within a ?40m budget cap.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo wrote to FIA counterpart Max Mosley last week to express his concerns that the cap could lead to a two-tier F1.

F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has dismissed claims Ferrari could quit F1.

The 78-year-old told the Times: "Ferrari are not stupid. They don't want to leave Formula 1 and we don't want to lose them, so we'll get to grips with it."

Ecclestone's remarks come after Mosley said that F1 did not need Ferrari.

"The sport could survive without Ferrari," Mosley said. "It would be very sad. It is the Italian national team."

His remarks were widely interpreted as the latest salvo in the ongoing political battle over the future of the sport.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is chairman of the Formula 1 Teams' Association (Fota), whose members are unanimously opposed to a two-tier F1.

Mosley's proposal for next year is for teams that operate within the budget cap to have greater technical freedom than those who do not.

Last weekend, Toyota became the first team to say they would quit F1 if next year's rules were not changed.

Di Montezemolo has said the idea could be "fundamentally unfair and perhaps even biased".

And the F1 drivers disagree with Mosley's claim that the sport could survive without Ferrari.

World champion Lewis Hamilton said he "could not imagine" F1 without Ferrari while Renault's Fernando Alonso said it was "impossible" for it to happen.

And BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld was left bemused by Mosley's comments.

He said: "I thought that people were looking and listening to the fans worldwide and Ferrari is obviously the biggest name in F1 with many supporters and has been there since the very beginning, so they belong in F1 for sure."

Ferrari hold numerous records in the sport and have competed in more races than any other F1 team since making their debut at the 1950 Monaco Grand Prix.

Since then they have won 209 of the 781 races they have lined up for, leading to 16 constructor and 15 driver championships.

Any team wishing to compete in next year's championship must notify the FIA by 29 May and state whether they wish to compete under the cost-cap regulations.

Whilst a good idea in theory, isn't this season a prime example of the fact that the big money doesn't always equal big wins?

[Mike]

Whilst a good idea in theory, isn't this season a prime example of the fact that the big money doesn't always equal big wins?

This season is more an example that their is no substitute for time being spent on something and money can't buy you time

[Subject Delta]

People seem to be forgetting one crucial thing, namely that the BrawnGP car was actually designed by Honda last year with their megabucks.

As for Barrichello... I don't think there where any team orders (jense himself has stated he wasn't actually sure about the strategy switch at first), my gut feeling is that Barrichello just wasn't fast enough.

[Woj]

Ferrari 'to quit' over budget row

Ferrari have announced they will quit Formula 1 at the end of the season if the sport continues with plans to adopt a ?40m budget cap from 2010.

>

"No F1 in 2010 if the rules do not change," read a statement. "Ferrari does not intend to register cars for the 2010 F1 world championship."

More to follow.

BBC Sport

[Subject Delta]

The opening salvo has been fired, an announcement I was kinda expecting. Thing is I believe the teams only have 2 weeks or so to declare their entries for 2010, so if this argument isn't resolved by then, Ferrari will be goners. As much as I dislike them, losing the biggest name in the sport would be catastrophic on so many fronts.

Really sad to see what Bernie and Max are turning a once wonderful sport into

[Pikey]

How typical of Ferrari to 'throw a tantrum' when they start losing ..

[Subject Delta]

Ferrari aren't the only one 'throwing a tantrum'. I dislike Ferrari a lot, but they are absolutely right on this one, having a 2-tier sport would be stupid. Ferrari, RBR, and Toyota have already threatened to leave the sport, and most of the other teams have also condemned the 2 tier idea.

[brentaal]

How typical of Ferrari to 'throw a tantrum' when they start losing ..

Inform yourself.

Ferrari weren't the first to protest against this nor are they the only ones.

[Shibby]

Renault are now also joing that list of teams pretty hacked off.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8048112.stm

[Axel]

Sorry for the ignorance guys, I have attempted to google but couldn't find a concise explanation. What exactly is meant by a "two-tier" F1?

[Mike]

Sorry for the ignorance guys, I have attempted to google but couldn't find a concise explanation. What exactly is meant by a "two-tier" F1?

The budget cap is optional, so to encourage the teams to use the budget cap they are allowed greater technical freedom, examples being moveable wings and unlimited engine revs. The teams all agree that if any of the cars on the current grid were to use the relaxed rules it'd be 2 or 3s a lap quicker thus ruining the race as it'd win every single one. So you'd end up with 2 sets of rules where the cars couldn't compete between rule sets (due to the advantage) and so you'd have basically 2 races going on at the same time.

[.mcman]

Renault are now also joing that list of teams pretty hacked off.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8048112.stm

cool, now all we need is McLaren to join and it all will be good.

[Axel]

The budget cap is optional, so to encourage the teams to use the budget cap they are allowed greater technical freedom, examples being moveable wings and unlimited engine revs. The teams all agree that if any of the cars on the current grid were to use the relaxed rules it'd be 2 or 3s a lap quicker thus ruining the race as it'd win every single one. So you'd end up with 2 sets of rules where the cars couldn't compete between rule sets (due to the advantage) and so you'd have basically 2 races going on at the same time.

So essentially they're trying to FORCE a budget cap as there would be only one logical choice if wins were desired. Certainly sounds like the spirit of F1 is being twisted and manipulated into some indescript globular mess.

[JoeC]

Or maybe, just maybe, Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Toyota et al could stay under the 40m cap, save hundreds of millions and actually compete on ingenuity.

Oh wait, this is F1. It's meant to be "richest team wins" :)

[Mike]

cool, now all we need is McLaren to join and it all will be good.

McLaren are unlikely to publicly say so as they're trying to come across as not stirring trouble, BMW apparently are about to publicly say they'll withdraw so that'll be 6/10 teams withdrawing.

So essentially they're trying to FORCE a budget cap as there would be only one logical choice if wins were desired. Certainly sounds like the spirit of F1 is being twisted and manipulated into some indescript globular mess.

Pretty much, the teams pretty much all agree that the budget cap teams will win and those out of the cap won't so it's basically go down the cap route or waste your money. It's not a case of making it harder to go faster for the non-capped teams, more just a you can't go faster.

Or maybe, just maybe, Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Toyota et al could stay under the 40m cap, save hundreds of millions and actually compete on ingenuity.

Oh wait, this is F1. It's meant to be "richest team wins" :)

And fire thousands of people? F1 has been about technical ability/freedom and money, always has been and hopefully always will be. It's not about the richest team winning, Williams have a small budget yet have a very decent car. The "row" isn't completely about the cap either, it's about F1 becoming too restrictive in what they can do and changing the rules to form a 2-tier race series.

I bet the teams would agree to say ?70m or ?80m budget cap with the more freedom based rule set. This would stop massive lay offs and give F1 some of its technical freedom back to the teams and avoid a pointless 2-tier race series.

[Subject Delta]

According to the teams, they had their own ideas on how to save money without making the sport a 2 tiered joke. I support the teams stance on this, Bernie and Max are a pair of senile old farts that are destroying F1.

[Shibby]

I saw a good article in The Times today, its about what F1 does for innovation and is from the Advanced Institute of Management.

Check it out it's not that long of an article and basicly says that these new rules the FIA want are basicly bad for everyone.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle6275866.ece

[Subject Delta]

Yep, when you see the driver sitting in the cockpit it is sometimes hard to imagine the vast amount of people that get them there. Cutting budgets = job losses across the board. Not good when you need to stimulate growth.

Formula 1 has ridden out every other recession, and I believe it will ride out this one. I feel Max is grossly overdoing it.

Edit:

Renault has become the latest team to threaten its withdrawal from Formula 1 at the end of the season unless the budget cap plans are scrapped, as the row over next year’s regulations continues to intensify.

A day after Ferrari joined Toyota and Red Bull in warning the FIA that it won’t sign up to 2010 if the rules stand, former champion outfit Renault has issued the governing body with the same ultimatum.

The Enstone-based squad says it has been left “frustrated” that the Formula One Teams’ Association’s own cost-cutting proposals have been “completely ignored” and that the governing body has instead pushed through an extreme optional cost cap in one go.

Team managing director Flavio Briatore, a long-time advocate of cost-cutting in Formula 1, says that Renault is simply not prepared to accept the FIA introducing such drastic rule changes without consultation.

"Our aim is to reduce costs while maintaining the high standards that make Formula 1 one of the most prestigious brands on the market,” Briatore said.

“We want to achieve this in a coordinated manner with the regulatory and commercial bodies, and we refuse to accept unilateral governance handed out by the FIA.

“If the decisions announced by the World Council on the 29th of April 2009 are not revised, we have no choice but to withdraw from the FIA Formula One World Championship at the end of 2009."

In its statement Renault expresses its disappointment that the FOTA cost-cutting measures, which have been devised by all 10 teams, have been overlooked despite the teams’ body sharing the FIA’s desire to drastically bring budgets down.

The French carmaker adds that F1’s rules should be devised with input from all parties and that it is completely unwilling to accept a two-tier system on the basis on which to compete.

“There is frustration that FOTA's constructive proposals, including major cost saving measures to be adopted progressively between 2009 and 2012, which were carefully constructed by FOTA members, have been completely ignored without any form of consultation by the FIA with the teams,” the statement read.

“It should be stressed that FOTA has set the same, if not lower, financial objective as the FIA, but Renault strongly believes that this must be introduced through a different procedure agreed by all parties.

“Renault also believes that it is paramount that the governance of the sport is coordinated with a spirit of consultation with all parties (FIA, FOM, FOTA) in order to achieve a better balance between the costs and the revenues."

The most divisive element of the ?40 million budget limit rules among teams is the two-tier nature of the system, with entrants given the option of either running under the cap in exchange for greater technical freedoms or spending unlimited funds within the current restrictive framework.

Renault’s F1 president Bernard Rey says that while it wants to remain committed to Formula 1, the FIA's move has forced its hand and it has no choice but to pull out if a two-tier championship is created.

"Renault has always considered Formula 1 as the pinnacle of motor sport and the perfect stage to demonstrate technical excellence,” Rey said.

“We remain committed to the sport, however we cannot be involved in a championship operating with different sets of rules, and if such rules are put into effect, we will be forced to pull out at the end of this season."

Source: itv-f1.com

IMO these threats are real, and the opening salvo in what I feel is going to turn into a long and bloody battle. If the s*** hadn't hit the fan before, it damn well has now.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Frank Fontaine

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

No agreement between teams and FIA

The FIA's crunch meeting with teams ended without agreement on Friday as the governing body refused to compromise over plans for a two-tier category.

Max Mosley said there had been 'friendly' discussions with teams but that the FIA was not willing to back down over its plans for a ?40 million cap, or the 29 May deadline for entries to the 2010 world championship.

The teams have now gone into another meeting to discuss their response to the FIA's stance.

"It was quite a friendly meeting, but in the end all that happened was that the teams have gone off to see if they can come up with something better than the cost cap," Mosley told reporters after the Heathrow meeting.

"We explained we cannot put back the entry date, as this has all been published, and we cannot disadvantage the potential new teams who will come in. But we are prepared to listen to whatever they have to say.

"In the meantime, the regulations are as published. We have explained that we want everyone to race under the same regulations. We have explained that we would like all of the teams to come in under the cost cap and that is what they have gone off to consider.

"We have said that we cannot see why anyone wouldn't want to operate under the cost cap, and it would mean a gradual relaxation of the technical regulations - which all the engineers would want. We said in the end the choice was between intellectual freedom and financial constraint, or intellectual constraint and financial freedom - which is what they have had up until now.

"We have pointed out, and it is something the engineers have said, that current F1 consists of endless refinement at enormous expense and we want to move away from that and have invention and creativity, but we can only do that if we restrict the cost - because if we have unrestricted cost nobody would be able to afford it.

"I think some of the teams agree with that idea, and some don't, and they have gone away to discuss it."

Ferrari, Renault, Toyota and the Red Bull teams have already declared that they will not enter the 2010 season under the rules as presently proposed by the FIA, and when asked if that remained the case, Mosley replied: "Well, as things stand, yes that is the situation."

It also emerged today that Ferrari has lodged legal action in the French courts to block the 2010 rules - claiming their introduction was a breach of a technical veto the Italian team has.

"During the meeting it became apparent that Ferrari has made an application to the French courts, and I don't know the details, but it is to apply for an injunction to stop us doing what we want to do," Mosley explained. "So that is where the situation rests as far as Ferrari is concerned."

The FIA president added that the discussions had extended to talks on a new Concorde Agreement, but that this issue also remained unresolved.

"Then they asked about the Concorde Agreement, and we said that we would be prepared if there was agreement on all of the other issues to resign the 1998 Concorde Agreement, and extend it for another five years," said Mosley.

"But there was not agreement between them and Bernie [Ecclestone] on the commercial side, which is unsurprising because they have been talking about it for two and a half years and still not reached agreement."

Source: >Autosport

Seems like Formula One is headed for another FISA-FOCA war like row. /me sighs>

Edited May 15, 2009 by Mephistopheles

[Subject Delta]

It's gonna get worse before it gets better. Ferrari's injunction against the rules makes it seem to me that they are trying everything not to pull out, although knowing what an arrogant S.O.B Max Mosely is, I can see a long stalemate emerging unless the court finds in Ferrari's favour, something I have little legal knowledge about.

[Crazysah]

It's gonna get worse before it gets better. Ferrari's injunction against the rules makes it seem to me that they are trying everything not to pull out, although knowing what an arrogant S.O.B Max Mosely is, I can see a long stalemate emerging unless the court finds in Ferrari's favour, something I have little legal knowledge about.

Yeah. I totally agree. They might not decide until the mid-season break or maybe even end of the season...

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Ecclestone: Two-tier will be scrapped

Bernie Ecclestone says that although Friday's crunch meeting between the teams and the FIA ended in stalemate over the budget cap, both parties did agree that the controversial two-tier system should not go ahead.

Formula 1's commercial rights holder also believes that the chances of any of the current teams carrying out their threats not to participate in the 2010 world championship are slim.

Under the current 2010 rules, teams can choose to either adhere to a ?40 million budget cap and enjoy greater technical freedom, or continue to spend freely but run to more restrictive regulations, which some teams have estimated would leave them up to three seconds per lap slower than the capped teams.

The prospect of two parallel sets of rules was one of the main sticking points between the teams and the governing body, but Ecclestone believes the two-tier system is now highly unlikely to proceed.

"I think the most important thing that upset everybody, they didn't like, was this two-tier technical system, so I think it has been agreed that we shouldn't have that. We should have just one set of regulations," he told the BBC.

"I think everybody is more or less happy with the budget cap. Just how much. They'll go with it higher [than ?40 million], maybe it'll be lower. It's a case of just sorting it out.

"Everyone will be under the same regulations."

He added that he had his own misgivings about the two-tier proposal.

"I always thought that was a bit stupid," Ecclestone was quoted as saying by the Daily Mail. "It was important to get rid of it."

If the two-tier proposal was shelved, Ecclestone had no doubt that the teams currently planning to withhold their 2010 entries would return to the fold.

"I am confident all the teams will still be racing next year," he said.[/quoteSource: b>Autosport

Let's for the sake of the sport hope CBE is right.

Unrelated: Don't forget to guess the result of the Monaco GP!

[Subject Delta]

Even if the 2 tier is scrapped, I know Ferrari are still gonna push for the cap to be annulled