F1 World Championship 2009 Thread

[simonlang]

[sundayx Veteran]

Barrichello 1:19....

[san.W10]

ferrari did the same mistake all over again. :|

[Woj]

Pre-race weights & provisional grid

1. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 646kg

2. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 651.5

3. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 649.5

4. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 655

5. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 651.5

6. Timo Glock, Toyota, 646.5

7. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5

8. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 645

9. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 668

10. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 660

11. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 676.6

12. Nelson Piquet, Renault, 677.4

13. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 676.3

14. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 683

15. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 678

16. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 673

17. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 669

18. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 657

19. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 675

20. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 656

[Subject Delta]

My personal favourite is Vettel for the race tomorrow, with more fuel he will prove a serious threat unless Jenson has the race pace that he had in Bahrain. Ferrari appear to be somewhere in the mix again, although still making some serious tactical errors. If massa can out-KERS some of his competitors though I feel he may become some sort of a blocker during the race.

[84Mark]

Great 1-2 for Brawn (Y)

I bet Massa is well hacked off though!

[simonlang]

poor massa, he was in for p3 till his team screwed him - AGAIN.

he is maybe the best driver in f1 now, defended all the race against vettel (who is ****ing amazing!) and made no mistake; i think if ferrari doesnt improve he should switch the team.

[digitalsoft]

Massa, idiot! Should have listened to his team. So pleased for Button! Great race for Brawn!

[brentaal]

Massa, idiot! Should have listened to his team.

What the hell are you talking about? How's he the idiot?

[84Mark]

What the hell are you talking about? How's he the idiot?

Well if he had given up the position earlier he might have been able to stop Alonso going through too.

[brentaal]

Well if he had given up the position earlier he might have been able to stop Alonso going through too.

How would he have done that? Alonso was 17 seconds behind him.

[84Mark]

How would he have done that? Alonso was 17 seconds behind him.

The fuel he wasted hanging on to 4th could have given him enough breathing space to maintain 5th had he sacrificed the position earlier.

[Shibby]

Wasn't the massa fuel problem down to a dodgy fuel rig?

[Subject Delta]

Well if he had given up the position earlier he might have been able to stop Alonso going through too.

Yes, probably but Massa was in a very difficult position. One one hand he was fighting hard for a position, and on another he had to try and conserve his fuel. When you are in a heated battle for position it is very difficult to balance as the natural behaviour for any racing driver is to be flat out all the time. The blame goes with Ferrari on this one, not Massa. Underfueling him was another in an increasingly long string of errors that cost Ferrari another 2 points.

Also another awesome performance by Brawn GP and particularly Button today, they are so good that I feel that by the time the other teams catch up they will already be out of sight. Impressive development rate for a small team.

[simonlang]

you are the biggest ******* i've ever spoken to. did you ever WATCHED THE RACE?

idiot. go away. the pit calculates fuel consumption then they advise him how high he is allowed to rev and what engine mapping to use. he could nothing do!

his driving however was BRILLIANT! massa and vettel 2010 at ferrari? anyone? :D

sorry i take the insults back. i really should stop posting right after a race. :p

[84Mark]

I agree with your points Frank but from what I heard over the teams radio it seems like Massa was given plenty of warning that there had been a problem with the re-fueling and that he was going to have improve his fuel usage (which he didn't) else he would have to re-fuel before the end of the race. Waiting until 4 laps to go before conceeding the position was just stupid. He then had to find an extra lap (in terms of fuel savings) in just 4 laps.

[Subject Delta]

I agree, but again that is a team error not a driver error. The team should have told him to concede the position as soon as they knew he was marginal on fuel.

[Crazysah]

Yes, probably but Massa was in a very difficult position. One one hand he was fighting hard for a position, and on another he had to try and conserve his fuel. When you are in a heated battle for position it is very difficult to balance as the natural behaviour for any racing driver is to be flat out all the time. The blame goes with Ferrari on this one, not Massa. Underfueling him was another in an increasingly long string of errors that cost Ferrari another 2 points.

Also another awesome performance by Brawn GP and particularly Button today, they are so good that I feel that by the time the other teams catch up they will already be out of sight. Impressive development rate for a small team.

I agree with you about the Brawn's!

About Ferrari - With Micheal Schummacher there to help and some other real good guys, how can they make mistakes week after week? They made it in Qualifyiung and in the race!

[Subject Delta]

Schumi is only a driver, his influence is limited. Fact is, they have lost a lot of the key elements that made them special

[JoeC]

@Frank: The team DID tell him to let Vettel past well before he did. With 10 laps to go, Rob Smedley said "We WON'T get to the end" over the radio to Massa, and he knew full well what his position was, but kept fighting for 4th for another 6 laps, which cost him it.

Sure, the first (and biggest) error was the pit crew not fuelling him long enough, but Massa has to take some blame cos he could have righted it in plenty of time. Saving a lap of fuel over 10 laps is much easier than over 4, and he'd have lost far less time doing it.

[Subject Delta]

No, the team told him to save fuel, there was no order to let Vettle past until 4 laps from the end. "Save fuel" does not equal "Move over and let your opponent past"

[digitalsoft]

...Rob Smedley continues to press Massa about his fuel consumption. "If you don't ease off you won't last the race" he warns. Massa responds with the understandably blunt: "What am I supposed to do? I am defending my position!" Martin Brundle wonders if the Brazilian might be better to yield position to Sebastian Vettel and coast to the end, guaranteeing fifth place.

If Martin Brundle a retired F1 driver thought of such a strategy I'm sure Ferrari and Massa knew what they should have done.

[Mike]

No, the team told him to save fuel, there was no order to let Vettle past until 4 laps from the end. "Save fuel" does not equal "Move over and let your opponent past"

Drivers can do thinking for their own you know. It was clear before he was told to let Vettel go he wouldn't finish the race at his current racing speed, he should know that it's easier to save fuel over a longer stint than a shorter one and done something about it.

It was hardly a team error with the refueling either, the computer said the fuel went in but it didn't actually do so and they found out by weighing the fuel after. What else could the team have done except told him earlier to let Vettel go?

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Sauce: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8043243.stm

Barrichello may quit over Button

Rubens Barrichello has threatened to quit Formula 1 if he finds out his Brawn team are favouring Jenson Button.

The Brazilian lost Sunday's Spanish Grand Prix to his team-mate after boss Ross Brawn changed Button's strategy.

"If I get the slightest sniff of the fact that they have favoured Jenson, I will hang up my helmet tomorrow," he told United States channel SpeedTV.

"But I know Ross wouldn't do that. He asked me to drive for him and he knows I want to race fairly with Jenson."

Team orders is a sensitive subject for the veteran Brazilian, who left Ferrari in 2005 a year before the end of his contract because he was fed up with not being allowed to race team-mate Michael Schumacher.

Brawn was Ferrari's technical director at the time.

Barrichello blames race tactics

Barrichello will also be aware that Button's win extended his lead in the world championship over his team-mate to 14 points - and that there will eventually come a time when Brawn have to focus their efforts on one driver as they seek to fend off the threat from other teams.

Asked if he feared a return to those days with his new team, Barrichello said: "I have had experience of that and if it happens I won't follow any team orders. I'm making this clear now but we have a much more friendly situation in this team.

"There's no way I'm going to be crying and saying I should have this or that. I had the ability to win and I didn't."

Barrichello had expected to win the race after making a brilliant start from third on the grid and leading into the first corner.

Brawn planned for both cars to do three pit stops but they changed Button's strategy at his first stop because they were worried he would otherwise get held up by the Williams of Nico Rosberg - who Barrichello only just emerged ahead of after his first stop.

'Slow' Barrichello disappoints Brawn

Button then proceeded to set an impressive series of times, despite his heavy fuel load early in his second stint.

However, Barrichello remained on target to win until his own second stop - he then had problems with his third set of tyres and lost sufficient time for Button to get ahead.

As the drivers waited to go out on to the podium, Barrichello sat on a sofa and asked: "How did I lose that race?"

He added: "My third set of tyres was not good, I don't know if something was broken on the car. So I couldn't keep the pace up and from then on it was a struggle to keep the car on the track and a relief to come second.

"I'm disappointed I didn't win the race because I felt I had it in the bag today but it's still great for the team."

Brawn denied there had been any decision to favour Button.

"Absolutely not," he insisted. "The strategy change was my decision. The engineers and the drivers pool their information and make their recommendations but I make the call in the pit lane and, good or bad, we stand by it.

"If Rubens hadn't had his problem, it would have been incredibly close.

"If you look at the lap times on the tyres and the fuel, there was a period of the race where Rubens was a lot slower than expected.

"And that's what cost him the race because Jenson on more fuel was quicker."

Being a bit touchy isn't he? It was switching strategies that let button get ahead, not team loving him more, although at this point with the amount of wins/points etc that button has they should be making sure he wins the rest for #1 overall.

[JoeC]

I was waiting for this to come out, saw it on BBC Sport an hour or so ago. Got to feel sorry a bit for Barrichello, playing second fiddle to Schumacher at Ferrari and now Jenson's looking all set to become the number one driver.

Was looking into it a bit with one of my housemates, and it looks like Brawn don't actually have a number 3 driver at the moment, so what'd happen if he did leave?