F1 World Championship 2009 Thread

[Subject Delta]

A French court has thrown out Ferrari’s bid to prevent the FIA introducing the optional ?40 million budget cap next season.

The Maranello outfit, which last week threatened to quit Formula 1 if the 2010 rules are introduced as planned, claimed that the governing body had broken a contractual arrangement with the team by introducing the radical changes without its consent.

However, a Paris court announced on Wednesday afternoon that it had rejected the injunction request after hearing legal representations from both Ferrari and the FIA yesterday.

The FIA is now clear to proceed with the opening of the application process for 2010 grid places on Friday, with teams given a week to submit entries for the 13 places up for grabs next season.

Ferrari, along with fellow official dissenters Renault, Toyota and Red Bull, have remained adamant that they will not submit an entry if the rules stand as published, with the squads unhappy with the two-tier nature of the system and the way in which it was introduced without consultation by the FIA.

Last week all 10 FOTA teams met FIA president Max Mosley and commercial supremo Bernie Ecclestone in London for crisis talks over the 2010 rules, but the parties failed to agree on a compromise solution.

While Ecclestone revealed that all sides had at least accepted that two sets of rules wouldn't be a good idea, Mosley insisted the FIA would not be backing down on the ?40m cap figure as it was imperative to ensuring the future of the sport and enticing new teams.

British car maker Lola and Formula 3 outfit Litespeed last week confirmed they would be submitting entries should the budget cap stand, with the US-based F1 operation also set to bid for a place on the 2010 grid.

Source

Looks like we now really have a genuine chance that we won't see Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, or STR on the grid for next year

[plan-9]

Source

Looks like we now really have a genuine chance that we won't see Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, or STR on the grid for next year

Horrible news. Hopefully this gets worked out. Im sure Mclaren and BMW will also be on the list. I cant see them making that cap or even wanting to make it in the cap.

Remember hearing some things about a bunch of the teams wanting to start their own organization and have their own races. Wondering if this could be a start to that?

F1 just wouldnt be the same without these teams. Also wouldnt be the same with a cap or this ridiculous 2 tier system.

[Subject Delta]

Agreed. Mercedes are saying they aren't considering a pullout at the moment, but I can't see them wanting to stay in a sport that loses its prestige, which a max outflux of this nature would bring.

[san.W10]

these 7 teams should form a new F1 where there's less limit to innovation.

if it wasnt for F1, we wouldnt hav seen paddle shift gear shifter in road cars :p

i want to see more technolgy :D

FIA keeps imposing rules, that too at last moment.

the reason for KERS failure is FIA itself.

btw, F1 is two tier right now. kers & non kers, double diffuser & single.

F1 without Max Mosley & Bernie would be better.

(when it comes to safety, hats off to FIA for making all motorsport cars safer)

++++

7 new teams searious about F1 entry

According to sources, the list of teams that were looking at moving to F1 were Lola, USF1, Wirth Research, Epsilon Euskadi, RML, Formtech, Campos Racing and iSport.

Another two outfits have also expressed an interest in moving up to F1. British F3 team Litespeed issued a statement declaring its intention to apply for an entry, while Prodrive has also admitted to be considering the move.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75440

thats 10 teams + 1 another USA team.

lol 11 new teams

f1 will become full of noob squads

-------------

i really hope the 7 big teams of current F1 pull out & invite manufactures like Porsche, Aston Martin, Jaguar (another indian team ;p), VW, Lamborghini,... into new F1.

that would be dream F1 with all thees super car makers. :woot:

Edited May 20, 2009 by san.W10

[Subject Delta]

I don't want the big teams to come out, F1 will just be crap without them. There is no way a sport can claim to be the pinnacle of motorsport with budget caps, and no recognised manufacturers involved.

[JoeC]

It's hard not to feel that any new team coming in initially would only really be racing Force India, and if that's all we get for Ferrari, McLaren et al leaving, then it's probably not worth it.

If they then turned out to have some great innovation and be good teams later on, fantastic, but it's a gamble.

[Subject Delta]

The racing may well be closer than ever, but that isn't really the debate, because the fact is that if F1 loses its prestige (which it will undoubtedly will if the big names pull out) then it will lose a lot of its appeal. Sad, but that's just the way it is.

If Ferrari alone pulled out, I'd probably still watch a couple of races to see how it is all going, but if the mass exodus of teams does end up happening then I will probably no longer watch it.

[Crazysah]

The racing may well be closer than ever, but that isn't really the debate, because the fact is that if F1 loses its prestige (which it will undoubtedly will if the big names pull out) then it will lose a lot of its appeal. Sad, but that's just the way it is.

If Ferrari alone pulled out, I'd probably still watch a couple of races to see how it is all going, but if the mass exodus of teams does end up happening then I will probably no longer watch it.

Yeah true. Closer teams is not the aim it is the prestige and the fans that come with it. 1-2 major teams going out will lose prestige + a lot of fans which is not good for the sport.

[Subject Delta]

Onto the action today, a couple of interesting developments. Kubica had an engine failure, apparently he has already lost 2 engines this year. Vettle has also had one, which may handicap him later on in the season if he gets really into the title fight. Have to admit, I am surprised that engines are being lost this early in the season. With only 6 engines remaining for 12 races (and my guess is that at least two of those have done at least one race distance) Kubica may struggle later on in the season.

I know the Mercedes unit is very reliable (apparently Brawn got a single engine to do nearly 1000 miles in testing) which may work to their advantage towards the end of the season.

As for the state of play, the commentators made interesting points that Massa and Hamilton where really hammering their cars hard today. Don't see them in the run for the win, but it is awesome to see the cars sliding around and the drivers having to do some real work behind the wheel, and that is perhaps more pronounced here than anywhere else. Wouldn't be surprised if a couple of drivers overdo it and end up in the barriers during the race.

[san.W10]

Teams fail to reach agreement with Mosley

Formula 1 teams failed to reach an agreement with FIA president Max Mosley about the future of the sport on Friday, despite lengthy talks that ran into the early evening.

Following a series of discussions over the course of the day, the teams met with Mosley to try and find a resolution to their unhappiness about plans for a voluntary budget cap.

However, despite talking for almost three hours no agreement was reached meaning several teams remain poised to not lodge entries for 2010 by next weeks deadline.

Although most team principals refused to comment about the situation as they left the Automobile Club de Monaco, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo revealed that more talks were needed.

"It was a long and constructive meeting," he said. "FOTA will have another meeting tomorrow, and then there will be another meeting with Mosley.

"What we want is that Formula 1 stays as Formula 1, that it doesn't become something different and go towards constant changes which confuse the public and all the others, that there should be stability and that we work over the next two years to arrive at a way of further reducing costs."

Despite the failure to reach an agreement on Friday, and with next weeks entry deadline looming, Mosley said he remained optimistic a deal could be reached.

"It was a good constructive meeting. The discussions are ongoing," he said.

When asked what the issues were, Mosley said: "They are the same issues. But I am hopeful there will be an agreement."

Ferrari, Red Bull, Toyota and Renault have all said that they will not enter the 2010 championship unless the rules are chaged.

Teams have until May 29 to lodge their entries to the championship with those missing the deadline likely to face a fine if they want to get back, providing there is space left on the grid.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75521

[san.W10]

:D

Kimi atlast at P2 :p

[Zoom7000]

Button on pole again! After a very shaky Q2, he's pulled it off in Q3! Raikkonen is P2 is gonna be interesting with KERS. Button is gonna have to be clever off the start.

[Antaris Veteran]

:D

Kimi atlast at P2 :p

What the hell happended to Hamilton?? He was doing a lot better during the runs yesterday.

[brentaal]

He crashed during Q1.

[ViZioN]

What the hell happended to Hamilton?? He was doing a lot better during the runs yesterday.

He crashed in Q1 and as his car was stopped, that's him out of qualifying. Pretty disappointing really, I thought he was good for at least a podium this weekend.

[Shibby]

I'm sure everyone thought Lewis would have got through to Q1, such a bummer that his spin meant he hit the wall. I suppose that what you get on a street circuit that is so tight compared to the vast openess of most race tracks.

[brentaal]

Post-qualifying car weights - Monaco

Pos Driver Weight (kg.)

1. Jenson Button 647.5

2. Kimi Raikkonen 644.0

3. Rubens Barrichello 648.0

4. Sebastian Vettel 631.5

5. Felipe Massa 643.5

6. Nico Rosberg 642.0

7. Heikki Kovalainen 644.0

8. Mark Webber 646.5

9. Fernando Alonso 654.0

10. Kazuki Nakajima 668.0

11. Sebastien Buemi 670.0*

12. Nelson Piquet 673.1*

13. Giancarlo Fisichella 693.0*

14. Sebastien Bourdais 699.5*

15. Adrian Sutil 670.0*

16. Lewis Hamilton 645.5*

17. Nick Heidfeld 680.0*

18. Robert Kubica 696.0*

19. Jarno Trulli 688.3*

20. Timo Glock 700.8*

* declared weight

Source - autosport.com

Some of those numbers are quite interesting. (Kimi almost the same level as both Brawns, Vettel being so low on fuel)

[Subject Delta]

Button will probably be about 2 laps later than Kimi, and Barrichello 1 lap after Button. If Rubens can keep within about a second of kimi, he will IMO leapfrog him if he doesn't KERS past button off the grid. Also, the fact that massa actually appears to be probably pitting 1 lap before Kimi doesn't say a lot for his qualifying effort.

Kers will probably infer the smallest advantage of the season, due to the lack of high speed parts of the circuit, and I also can't imagine it proving a big enough advantage to pass off the grid due to the short run to the first corner.

All the elements for a great battle are in place, and it is a shame Lewis couldn't be a part of it, but I kinda saw what happened to him coming.

[Mike]

Kimi won't be able to use KERS to get past Button, you aren't allowed to use it directly from the start and by the time he can use it, they'll be either going round turn 1 or past it so he may be able to overtake him up the "hill" after turn 1.

Lewis has also had his gearbox changed so he'll be starting at the back which, depending on his start, may be better. Going in to turn 1 last is a lot easier than in the middle of everyone :p

[Subject Delta]

I am pretty sure you can use it off the start, but from what I heard, the power boost doesn't really infer much advantage at low speed. The outcome is the same though, KERS won't infer the same off the grid advantage offered at other circuits.

[Shibby]

I don't think teams use it straight from the line, once they've got speed they then use it, but it all depends on the length of the strengh. I suppose tomorrow we won't see much use of KERs other than the straight and tunnel.

[JoeC]

As far as I can tell, below about 80mph, the car isn't generating enough downforce to keep the wheels from spinning, so adding an extra 80hp isn't any use.

[san.W10]

superb race :D

finally both Ferrari in top 5.

if only Kimi maintained his P2 in first corner in opening lap, he could have challenged Button.

+ that faulty wheel nut in kimi's car, during his final pit stop, he could have taken atleast P2.

Button takes dominant Monaco win

[Subject Delta]

From what I heard KERS can't be deployed below 100kph so whoever said that was correct. The main reason it is no use in lower gears is that it would mainly just cause more wheelspin, it only works well when the car is at speed.

As for the result, another perfect and dominant performance from Button today. Ferrari where also pretty good today. Looks to me though like Brawn are going to be incredibly hard to stop, their car just works everywhere and they have more than double their closest constructor's opponent.

Toyota... Really puzzling dropback in form for them, they have IMO blown their one big chance to take a win in Bahrain and I would be surprised if they feature from now on with Ferrari coming back into the fray, and Red Bull coming on strong.

Great to see another English driver on top though.

[JoeC]

Second post of this page, Frank :)

Great race for Button and Brawn, but really extremely little overtaking. OK, it's Monaco and you don't expect a lot, but nobody was ever in a place where they looked like an overtake was on the cards.

Hamilton got a couple cos his car was a lot faster than those around, only started at the back because of exceptional circumstances, and then two going past one of the Ferrari's when Massa accidentally cut the chicance, and let Vettel and Kubica past (might not be those drivers, not sure).

Other than that, pretty much "stay on the track" today.