F1 World Championship 2009 Thread

[Subject Delta]

It was Vettle and Rosberg that got past him. I think the couple of seconds that he lost in that incident probably made the difference between Massa and Raikkonen ultimately taking third.

[Subject Delta]

Formula 1 teams have raised the stakes in their dispute with the FIA by calling for the recently ratified 2010 rules – including the contentious ?40m budget cap – to be revoked and the cost-cutting agenda left in the hands of their own FOTA organisation.

After a series of meetings over the Monaco Grand Prix weekend, FIA president Max Mosley indicated on Sunday morning that agreement on a budget cap was in prospect, although he conceded that the low original figure might not come into force until 2011.

But the teams have now written to Mosley asking the FIA to drop the planned 2010 regulations as a pre-condition of their continuing to race.

Instead they want the current rules to be retained and used as a starting point for achieving further cost reductions for next season.

“What we have asked is basically to go back to the rules of this year, the 2009 rules, and then see together what we can do in order to make changes for next year,” said Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali on Sunday evening.

And reflecting their increasing preoccupation with F1’s governance, Domenicali added that the teams believe that they – and not the FIA – are best-placed to decide on the appropriate nature and scale of cost-cutting measures.

“Bear in mind that for sure the cost is something that all the teams are fully committed to work on, but the cost is something that is related to the business of the teams,” he said.

“We know what we can invest. We know what we can do, and I think this is something that the teams have to discuss internally and decide on their own what they can afford to keep the value of F1 and the standard that we know.

“It’s not something that we feel should be imposed by somebody else.”

Although the letter to Mosley was signed by all the teams, and Brawn CEO Nick Fry said all 10 current outfits were keen to maintain a united front in the negotiations with Mosley ahead of this Friday’s deadline for entries in the 2010 championship, Williams broke ranks on Monday morning by lodging its application with the FIA.

However, the Grove-based team stressed that it felt duty-bound to honour undertakings it had given to compete in F1 through to the end of 2010 and had no intention of leaving the FOTA fold.

Mosley has signalled that the FIA is willing to compromise over the implementation of the budget cap by treating 2010 as a transitional year with less draconian spending curbs, in order to give the larger teams time to downsize their organisations in an orderly way.

“I think we may go there in one stage,” he told BBC Sport on Sunday.

“There may be an intermediate year in 2010 – that’s still under discussion – but then we really come to these figures in 2011.”

But he insisted a cap of 45 million euros was still on the agenda for 2011 and added: “I think slowly we’re getting to a situation where everybody is going to agree, or at least the majority will agree.

“I think the reason it’s going that way is that everybody understands that it simply cannot go on at the present level – the money isn’t there.”

However the teams are less convinced an agreement can be reached by the official Friday deadline.

“I don’t know really,” said Domenicali.

“I think the points we have put on the table are pretty clear, and I think we raised some issues in the meeting that we had.

“It was as we said constructive, but there is an ongoing process to discuss.

“I think that for sure it will be a very important week because formally the entry to this championship has to be finalised by Friday. So I’m expecting long days!”

BMW motorsport boss Mario Theissen said in response to Mosley’s comments: “He is more confident than I am.

“Certainly it was a constructive meeting. We made some progress but we didn’t come to a real solution.

“So there is still quite some work to do if we want to have a solution that satisfies all the parties.”

Source: ITV-F1

Still no realistic resolution. Sigh.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

there is 1 realistic resolution. Change what isn't broken. ;)

[Subject Delta]

If they had removed Bernie and Max about 5 years ago, nothing would have been broken :p

[MightyJordan]

Williams suspended in sign-up row

Williams have been suspended from the Formula 1 Teams' Association (Fota) after signing up for the 2010 season.

The teams are in talks over planned budgetary curbs for next year and several teams including Ferrari say they will quit if a deal is not agreed.

"Fota's decision, although regrettable, is understandable," said team principal Frank Williams.

"As a company whose only business is F1 with obligations to our partners and employees entering was unquestionable."

Team chiefs met in Monaco at the weekend to discuss the proposals put forward by International Motorsport Federation (FIA) chief Max Mosley, and further talks are planned for London on Wednesday.

Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull and Toyota have all threatened to pull out of the sport if the budgetary restrictions are forced through, but on Monday, the day after the Monaco Grand Prix, Williams broke ranks and confirmed they were signing up for next season.

At the time, Williams chief executive Adam Parr said they felt "morally and legally obliged" to make it clear the team would continue to take part in F1.

"We owe it to our employees, sponsors and fans who are affected by statements that teams may not enter next year," he added.

Teams have until this Friday to submit their entries for 2010 season. It is not clear how long Williams' suspension from Fota will be in operation.

Source: BBC Sport

[Subject Delta]

Solidarity my butt, I knew someone would end up getting brought off, won't be long now before the rest of the teams that can't outspend the big boys lodge their entries into max's watered down championship

[simonlang]

monaco was a good race i think. sad, that felipe got blocked by vettel and afterwards button and then in the last laps had to slow down, he was easily on his way to take p2 at least, but for sure finishing in front of his teammate.

well, fastest lap shows everything.

bring on turkish gp! :D

[Subject Delta]

He'd have definitely taken Raikkonen, but for me Brawn where just too fast (again) to be caught by anyone. Will probably be a similar situation in Turkey, their car works well on fast circuits

[Shibby]

While I'm not supprised about FOTA kicking out Williams. ?My history of F1 isn't good. ?So I have no idea of the postion Williams place themselves during this problems with the FIA. ?

[Subject Delta]

Williams have typically either kept out of rows, or sided with the FIA. They are a small outfit that don't really have the money to compete any more with the big boys, which is why they are pro budget cap. They are not really in a good position to make waves either, they have a contractual obligation to race in F1 till 2012, and F1 is their only business, so a threat to pull out would achieve nothing beyond putting them out of a job.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

FOTA teams submit F1 entries for 2010

All the current Formula 1 teams have submitted their entries to the FIA for the 2010 championship, FOTA confirmed on Friday.

The Formula One Teams' Association said, however, that their entries were conditional on a new Concorde Agreement being signed by all parties before 12th June.

"The renewal of the Concorde Agreement will provide security for the future of the sport by binding all parties in a formal relationship that will ensure stability via sound governance," said FOTA in a statement.

The teams' body also said that the entries were conditional on the regulations being based on 2009 rules, "identical for all competitors and amended in accordance with proposals that FOTA has submitted to the FIA."

"All FOTA teams' entries for the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship have been submitted today on the understanding that (a) all FOTA teams will be permitted to compete during the 2010 Formula One season on an identical regulatory basis and (b) that they may only be accepted as a whole," added the statement.

"All FOTA teams now look forward with optimism to collaborating proactively and productively with the FIA, with a view to establishing a solid foundation on which the future of a healthy and successful Formula One can be built, providing lasting stability and sound governance."

The FIA announced earlier this year the introduction of a budget cap system from the 2010 season.

Those teams adhering to the system would get greater technical freedom, something that most FOTA teams have spoken against.

At least four of the current teams have threatened to withdraw from the sport if the two-tier system came into play next year.

Source: Autosport

Surprised? I'm not. All the threats of FOTA teams leaving F1 had to be taken ###### grano salis - first of all there are contractual obligations, secondly: Formula One is a well-known brand. GP1 or whatever a possible breakaway series would have been called is not.

[Subject Delta]

This isn't a final submission, and this is not the end of the argument by any stretch of the imagination. The entries are provisional, subject to the rules being the way the teams want, and knowing the arrogance of Max Mosely I see that as being unlikely.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Tbh, If the teams think they can afford it then let them spend it, If Max thinks a team can race and compete with ?40/45mil then let them, wheres the harm ?

[Mike]

Never been a fan of static budget caps, if anything it should be linked to their income, including sponsorship and prize money etc. From the McLaren fine payment, you can see the budget cap is not much higher than the prize money that the top teams get so why can't they spend more as they'll have plenty to spend?

[Subject Delta]

Tbh, If the teams think they can afford it then let them spend it, If Max thinks a team can race and compete with €40/45mil then let them, wheres the harm ?

I suppose the argument is that F1 becomes less attractive to new teams because they will have no chance of success if they can't outspend the teams currently involved.

[Anatolian]

2009 FORMULA 1 ING TURKISH GRAND PRIX ISTANBUL

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

I suppose the argument is that F1 becomes less attractive to new teams because they will have no chance of success if they can't outspend the teams currently involved.

Yeah but over a few years they will get sponsors etc at first they would be competing with force India etc then move onto the brawns, ferraris etc after getting a major sponsor and cash

[Subject Delta]

Doesn't always work like that, if it did than teams like Toyota should have wins by now

[san.W10]

Wurz: Superfund can succeed in F1

Superfund team principal Alex Wurz believes that Team Superfund may succeed in gaining an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 world championship because of its fundamental differences to other new outfits registered with the FIA by last Friday's imposed deadline...

[Garry]

The budget cap is a great idea!

Money ruins sport. In any sport, particularly F1 and football, the teams with the most money often 'buy' their way to the championship. In football it means being able to buy the best players at will and in F1, it means being able to do more R&D to produce better cars.

If you give every team a set amount to spend, only then do you find out which team truly has the best engineers, the most ingenius R&D team and the best asset management. Of course a car that cost ?200m to develop is going to outstrip a car that cost ?40m. For me, it detracts from the contest when one team can simply throw money at a problem instead of engineering their way around it.

Bringing in a budget cap gives all teams a level playing field. Only then will we see which team can create the most 'bang per buck.'

I'm looking forward to it. Seeing a Lola or Prodrive overtake a Ferrari would be amazing! (If their engineers are good enough to create a car that can do so, of course!)

[Subject Delta]

No it isn't, it is entirely artificial, all it does is allows the small teams to catch up to the big ones. Bearing in mind, you can throw as much money as you want at a problem, but ultimately if your designers come up with the wrong answer you still get beaten. A case in point is that both Honda and Toyota had massive budgets, and neither achieved anything

[brentaal]

and in F1, it means being able to do more R&D to produce better cars.

Which is the whole point of F1.

[Mike]

Someone pointed out on another forum that it's no coincidence that Brawn are still easily winning and that there is an in season testing ban. The richer teams (who should be allowed to spend more) can't go testing the new parts until the next race and if they aren't up to scratch thats another race weekend lost to Brawn. Add in the budget cap and the teams won't even be able to build extra parts to test during practice so you'll basically have teams racing with 1 car throughout the season and so who wins in race 1 will most likely walk away with the championship.

The budget cap is around the level of what Super Aguri had to spend, how often did they update their car?

[Subject Delta]

IIRC they only introduced updates about once every 3 races or so, and I don't recall them having an overwhelmingly large effect on their performance

[san.W10]

Start your own series, Mosley tells FOTA

FIA president Max Mosley has indicated that the governing body is not about to bow to demands being placed on it by Formula 1's current teams about their entry to the 2010 championship.

Nine of the sport's current competitors submitted their entries to next year's championship on the condition that a new Concorde Agreement was signed by June 12 and that next year's cost-cutting rule changes are abandoned in favour of their preferred regulations.

However, speaking to Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley has made it clear that it is unlikely a Concorde Agreement can be put together in such a short time frame - and he has suggested the rebel teams go off and set up their own championship if they are unhappy.

"A Concorde Agreement which one receives so late can't be signed by June 12," Mosley was quoted as saying.

"We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.

"We draw up the rules for that. We have been doing that for 60 years and we will continue doing so."

With a whole host of new teams having submitted entries to next year's championship, there are no shortage of competitors who can fill the grid if current teams do not wish to compete.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said last week that if the conditions laid down by FOTA's nine members were not accepted, then their entries would be invalid.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75796