Chastity Bono announces sex change

[RAID 0]

My name is Kirkburn. It's not hard.

While it's entirely irrelevant, yes, I am straight. And to your question: I likely would not. However, that bears little relation to anything. I don't pretend like my position applies to everyone.

Continuing to argue with you is pointless, because whereas I actually have evidence and sources for my information, your point of view is based off little more than moralising ignorance.

Sorry, Kickburn.

If you can say that about my point of view, then.. your point of view is based off nothing but warm, fuzzy feelings and not scientific fact. You're the one who's ignorant if you think adding a penis to a chick can make it a guy.

[Calum Veteran]

Sorry, Kickburn.

If you can say that about my point of view, then.. your point of view is based off nothing but warm, fuzzy feelings and not scientific fact. You're the one who's ignorant if you think adding a penis to a chick can make it a guy.

Well, this quote shows your lack of understanding on the subject.

A female-male sex change is not just about "adding a penis to a chick". There's a considerable amount more involved which makes them more masculine.

[Ji@nBing]

My name is Kirkburn. It's not hard.

While it's entirely irrelevant, yes, I am straight. And to your question: I likely would not. However, that bears little relation to anything. I don't pretend like my position applies to everyone.

Continuing to argue with you is pointless, because whereas I actually have evidence and sources for my information, your point of view is based off little more than moralising ignorance.

A wiki article? Really? That's your evidence and sources!?!?

[sujmano]

Let me get this straight:

She was born a female -> (default) female.sexWith(male)

She came out of the closet -> female.sexWith(female)

She wants to be a man -> male.sexWith(female)

How exactly that makes him gay now?

well her "default" is female n shes having sex with a female, she's still a female regardless of cosmetic penis.

[ThePitt]

Only if "he" could do good music :p

EDIT

A female-male sex change is not just about "adding a penis to a chick". There's a considerable amount more involved which makes them more masculine.

Like DNA change?

[RAID 0]

Well, this quote shows your lack of understanding on the subject.

A female-male sex change is not just about "adding a penis to a chick". There's a considerable amount more involved which makes them more masculine.

HA! Can it (the he-she) produce sperm to make a baby? Or not?

[Popcorned1]

I support Chastity

ha ha ha, chastity ...

in this decision. There's a lot of close minded people on this forum for sure who don't understand what's going on.

RAID 0, you've clearly got gender identity issues. I'm a doctor.

[Calum Veteran]

HA! Can it (the he-she) produce sperm to make a baby? Or not?

So is that your definition of a male? Someone who can produce sperm to make a baby?

[RAID 0]

So is that your definition of a male? Someone who can produce sperm to make a baby?

How about you just answer the question.

[Popcorned1]

RAID 0, you're clutching at straws here to be honest, what's that got to do with the issue at hand?

[Kirkburn]

Sorry, Kickburn.

Oh, aren't we mature. *sigh*

A wiki article? Really? That's your evidence and sources!?!?

Yes. Yes it is. If you've got a problem with the sources used for the Wikipedia article, please do tell.

Rather than, y'know, going off on a misjudged and foolish attempt to discredit wikis. My job is to run wikis, I know their possible flaws. This is not flawed.

[maplecookie Veteran]

I don't get where the whole children thing comes into play. Who cares? Why is it women and men are defined by their ability or non-ability to have or want kids? I can't have them (by choice), don't want them...HATE them in fact. It doesn't make me any less of a person, just as it wouldn't make Chaz any less of a man because he won't be able to produce sperm.

This person clearly feels just more comfortable one way than another. Who cares? She was a lesbian living with her girlfriend before this and none of you came and made a thread complaining about that. Now that she wants her breasts removed and probably other surgery everyone is upset??

Quite frankly I don't get how this has escalated to six pages. You are arguing over something none of you have control over. She is becoming He whether the members of Neowin like it or not. :p

[Popcorned1]

I can't have them (by choice), don't want them...HATE them in fact.

[sarcasm]You evil evil person.[/sarcasm]

[Angelic Marge]

I don't get where the whole children thing comes into play. Who cares? Why is it women and men are defined by their ability or non-ability to have or want kids? I can't have them (by choice), don't want them...HATE them in fact. It doesn't make me any less of a person, just as it wouldn't make Chaz any less of a man because he won't be able to produce sperm.

This person clearly feels just more comfortable one way than another. Who cares? She was a lesbian living with her girlfriend before this and none of you came and made a thread complaining about that. Now that she wants her breasts removed and probably other surgery everyone is upset??

Quite frankly I don't get how this has escalated to six pages. You are arguing over something none of you have control over. She is becoming He whether the members of Neowin like it or not. :p

What she said^^^ Here's yet another thread which has ended up like a childrens playground over a person none of us have ever met and most likely never will. I'm sure you all have much more important issues going on much closer to home than what some stranger is doing?

[Fresh]

Since when is gender decided solely on your genes? I don't think you realise just how many edge cases exist.

In any case, people are the gender they feel they are. What's wrong with respecting that? Conversely, why do you feel you can't respect that? What need is there to keep referring to him as her?

Holy crap, you will say anything....

Because it's a her? The reason why I feel I can't respect that is because of the fact that I'm an opinionated ****** and these kinds of things drive me nuts :p .

I mean really, the science exists that I could for instance get artificial scales all over my body and call myself a reptile. Does that make me a reptile now? No, it makes me a guy that has artificial scales all over his body, calling himself a reptile :p.

Another thing is I feel it's a disservice to the people who have this problem. It's caused by the part of the brain that's supposed to tell them they are for instance a woman, not working properly and telling them they are a man. Rather than telling them "ok, you're a man now then!!" wouldn't it be better to actually look more into the cause and hopefully find a cure, so they can have normal lives and not have to go through radical and extensive surgery/hormone therapy, mutilating their bodies?

(Y) If you want to pretend your a man go for it, so what, but when you want to argue that the person is really the other sex then you are being silly....it is about feelings again!

I don't get where the whole children thing comes into play. Who cares? Why is it women and men are defined by their ability or non-ability to have or want kids? I can't have them (by choice), don't want them...HATE them in fact. It doesn't make me any less of a person, just as it wouldn't make Chaz any less of a man because he won't be able to produce sperm.

This person clearly feels just more comfortable one way than another. Who cares? She was a lesbian living with her girlfriend before this and none of you came and made a thread complaining about that. Now that she wants her breasts removed and probably other surgery everyone is upset??

Quite frankly I don't get how this has escalated to six pages. You are arguing over something none of you have control over. She is becoming He whether the members of Neowin like it or not. :p

It is simple man, people are arguing the the she is becoming a he....in fact she is going to take drugs and have some surgery, that does not make her a man. That makes her look more like a man....is that hard? Why does no one admit the most basic of things...2+2=4. People are getting tired of the political correctness....you are a woman you will always be a woman....

She is doing it to be happy fine....I just do not understand the need to get other people to accept something that is not true. :rolleyes:

[RAID 0]

RAID 0, you're clutching at straws here to be honest, what's that got to do with the issue at hand?

Really? Well, allow me to make this more clear.

Did evolution make her hoooha go away and a penis magically appear? Nope.

Can she make babies with a woman (naturally)? Nope

Was she born a man? Nope.

Does she have female reporductive organs inside? Yes

Was she born with two mouths? Yes

See that pic?

What if I did that? What would you think if I had a Dolphin-plasty? I would have a fin and a everything else a dolphin has on the OUTSIDE, so what you're all saying is, "YES, YOU WOULD BE A DOLPHIN BECAUSE I LOOK LIKE ONE."

Great logic you're all using. DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[Fresh]

Really? Well, allow me to make this more clear.

Did evolution make her hoooha go away and a penis magically appear? Nope.

Can she make babies with a woman (naturally)? Nope

Was she born a man? Nope.

Does she have female reporductive organs inside? Yes

Was she born with two mouths? Yes

See that pic?

What if I did that? What would you think if I had a Dolphin-plasty? I would have a fin and a everything else a dolphin has on the OUTSIDE, so what you're all saying is, "YES, YOU WOULD BE A DOLPHIN BECAUSE I LOOK LIKE ONE."

Great logic you're all using. DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I saw that episode....OH man I wish I would have thought of that!!! (Y) All of you that are saying that she is now a he....need to watch this, I am not sure it will help your feelings...but it will at least make you think just a little.

[Welshknight]

who the frack is chastity bono?

[RAID 0]

It's just crazy, Fresh. I don't see how anyone with a brain can say she's now a guy.

Another way of looking at this:

Chazz says SHE FEELS like a man. So many come in here to support her and her "feelings". OK, fine. I FEEL that she's... still a she.

How the **** can you say one persons feelings are right, while someone else's feelings are wrong?

Oh, and don't bother to let facts get in the way. Just make up some BS and call me names and tell me I have some disorder. Do the usual touchy-feelie feelings song and dance because I have a different view. Is this that liberal tolerance I've been hearing so much about? I'm betting... it is.

[Chris123NT]

Why does "she" need a sex change? Already looks like a man.

[RAID 0]

Why does "she" need a sex change? Already looks like a man.

lol

[Solid Knight]

Intersexed people are irrelevant to the context of this discussion.

Running around calling people ignorant because they have a negative view of gender posing surgery is merely an excuse to have justify your claims even though you're factually incorrect. Gender is and always has been something biological. Even intersexed people are they way they are because of biology. Thoughts and feelings have nothing to do with your biology. If you get a fake penis, have your ovaries removed, and take hormone pills you're still a woman. You've only addressed the appearance aspect of your gender but you have not actually changed your gender. For that to occur you'd have to change your DNA and that is something we cannot currently do. As a result a sex change is nothing more than gender posing.

Again, Kirkburn, you're mixing up gender with gender roles and gender identity. If you bothered to read the articles you've linked to you'd know what the distinction between these things are.

Personally, I really don't see why it's so hard for you to grasp the biology aspect of genders (gender) versus the societal roles (gender roles) and psychology of genders (gender identity). Seriously, you can derive a lot about these just on their names alone. Note two of these have modifiers and one does not.

[Kirkburn]

Intersexed people are irrelevant to the context of this discussion.

Running around calling people ignorant because they have a negative view of gender posing surgery is merely an excuse to have justify your claims even though you're factually incorrect. Gender is and always has been something biological. Even intersexed people are they way they are because of biology. Thoughts and feelings have nothing to do with your biology. If you get a fake penis, have your ovaries removed, and take hormone pills you're still a woman. You've only addressed the appearance aspect of your gender but you have not actually changed your gender. For that to occur you'd have to change your DNA and that is something we cannot currently do. As a result a sex change is nothing more than gender posing.

Again, Kirkburn, you're mixing up gender with gender roles and gender identity. If you bothered to read the articles you've linked to you'd know what the distinction between these things are.

Personally, I really don't see why it's so hard for you to grasp the biology aspect of genders (gender) versus the societal roles (gender roles) and psychology of genders (gender identity). Seriously, you can derive a lot about these just on their names alone. Note two of these have modifiers and one does not.

I linked the intersexuality not because of Chastity Bono, but because of general ignorance of the area shown in this thread.

Some people seem to have incredibly rigid opinions on what "gender" constitutes. I linked it and others to suggest to them that 1). such black/white rigidity does not exist, 2). people have a right to choose what pronoun they are referred to as, 3). what business is it of theirs to moralise about what they should do?

"Thoughts and feelings have nothing to do with your biology"? They most certainly do. But in any case, why should whether you are XX or XY define everything about you as a person?

Edited June 17, 2009 by Kirkburn

[bauhaus]

What I dont understand is why do you all care so much about this that you keep goin with this pointless "debate". You all know you will not change anyone opinions here.

Thoughts and feelings have nothing to do with your biology.

Tell that to a neuropsychologist ;)

That's all I will say.

[Kirkburn]

What I dont understand is why do you all care so much about this that you keep goin with this pointless "debate". You all know you will not change anyone opinions here.

Well, that's why I'm linking to the Wikipedia articles, in the hope that some will become better educated about reality. :)