Neowin - Should it still be in a Mac users bookmarks?

[jonhapimp]

is it just a coincidence, or is the website named neoWIN for a reason?

really did you even read the thread. it's named neoWIN because it was a site about the beta of windows xp, over 8 years ago

[Timmah339]

really did you even read the thread. it's named neoWIN because it was a site about the beta of windows xp, over 8 years ago

really? in all seriousness i actually didn't know that. i always thought it was a windows/microsoft oriented site. well, i learned something new. :)

[jonhapimp]

really? in all seriousness i actually didn't know that. i always thought it was a windows/microsoft oriented site. well, i learned something new. :)

you sure did since it was windows oriented 8 years ago(or there would be only windows info on this site)

[Scratch 'n Sniff]

Actually I think the problem is that you suffer from an inferiority complex and it has nothing to do with Apple or Microsoft.

By large, most Apple sites post their own news and don't attack Microsoft at all. Mostly, they simply couldn't care less about Microsoft - aha, that's what your problem is right? Because there are other communities that don't care about Microsoft - somehow that makes their members recalcitrant and the site's existence unimportant.

Also, where people do discuss Windows on the Mac platform - you will be surprised to read (see MacRumors.com) that no one spams their anti-Microsoft views in those sub-forums as Windows zealots do in the Neowin Mac sub-forums.

Anyway. That's my thoughts. Ban me, don't ban me - warn me or whatever. I have a right to share my thoughts, take it or leave it.

True; I tend to hang out at AppleInsider and MacRumors (same user name) and the only time Microsoft is ever mentioned is in regards to a Mac product not working the way it should or the complaint about the fact that the Microsoft Messenger is really out of date. For me, I'm neither here nor there with Microsoft Windows - what a Windows user uses does not affect me in the slightest. I'm sure for the vast majority of Mac users that is the case.

As for those who 'invade' the Mac quarters; I guess the best one can do is report those people to the moderation staff and allow them to take care of the matter.

[Darrian]

Regardless of whether you're using Windows, OS X, Linux, Solaris, Haiku, or whatever, we're all PC users here, and there will always be something relevant to be found. However, as the name of the site suggests, Neowin is primarily geared towards Windows users. It's no shock that the majority of the users here are going to be running Windows and I'm sure quite a few of them probably talk **** about Macs when they've never used one.

As far as slamming Safari goes, well, that's because it sucks. If you absolutely need a webkit browser, Chrome is better. Otherwise, use Firefox :p

[Quillz]

By large, most Apple sites post their own news and don't attack Microsoft at all. Mostly, they simply couldn't care less about Microsoft - aha, that's what your problem is right? Because there are other communities that don't care about Microsoft - somehow that makes their members recalcitrant and the site's existence unimportant.

Three relatively well-known Mac sites that I sometimes browse: 9 to 5 Mac, AppleInsider and MacRumors. On all three, the main page generally has 1-3 Microsoft articles, with AppleInsider's clearly written with an anti-Microsoft bias.

I'm sure there are many sites out there that are pro-Apple and don't concern themselves with Microsoft. And I'm sure the opposite is true.

The point here is that Neowin is hardly heavily biased in either direction. Fanboys of any platform, whether it's Mac, Windows or Linux are going to invade every site no matter what happens. Frankly, I think the Mac forums here are much better than many other boards, because here you can actually hold a "neutral" conversation about other platforms without being flamed and/or being insulted.

[Timmah339]

you sure did since it was windows oriented 8 years ago(or there would be only windows info on this site)

i was 9 years old 8 years ago :p

[.Neo]

I don't get why people are so emotional about the OS they're using in the first place.

[Dysphoria]

I don't get why people are so emotional about the OS they're using in the first place.

Cheers Neo, great question. That's why I tend not to get into pointless arguments about which OS is better and who has a bigger e-penis.

Most of the trash talk is written by kids who have some inner anger or are trying to prove their masculinity by trash talking to everyone that has a different opinion.

I've used Windows and Linux for already 15 years and just got my first Mac, and so far I am loving it.

I still have my main desktop running VIsta 64 bit and Fedora 11 and my other laptop Dell 700m just Linux Fedora 11.

It's funny but last year when I posted that Vista was inefficient and will be replaced in a year, I got trash talked by bunch of people, but hey I guess it's a free world... The funny part is that all of these people that argued are now going to upgrade to Win 7 :)

Now and then you just have to bite your lip and overlook some of the comments. After all it's a big world and there are all kind of people out there.

Cheers

[VAVA Mk2]

Reading Neowin these past weeks, the tone of most of the windows posters on the forum and the main news site has seemed to have become very hostile, theres a exceeding amount of bile being thrown about, you only have to read the latest safari story, 70% of the posts have little to do with the subject, but are being posted to get a kick in, no matter if its correct or not.

I don't know if this is because there is now a younger element just joining?

There was a post in the news section very similar to what I'm asking, if you are a macuser, is Neowin still a site worth visiting for calm tech news and discussion or is it best moving on?

Well it is a Windows enthusiast site for the most part and a lot of us are a bit turned off by the Apple of the last 2 or 3 years and their cockiness. Not that OSX is bad but Apple's attitude towards itself (arrogance) and misleading ads and slams against MS have really left a bitter taste in many of our mouths. Not to mention that in a recession, some of the prices they are asking for in a MBP compared to a PC of comparable specs is a bit absurd to a lot of people or downright snoody. Nothing against Mac people, more the attitude that Apple has put out and has then gone into a lot of the lesser educated culture about computers and some of the "truths" they use in their ads. If you like Apple or Linux or Windows though, go with what you feel best for you. Preference is subjective and there is no true right.

[NeoTrunks]

I've more or less skimmed through the posts here. I've been coming to this site since it opened, making an account a few months later. One of the things that has kept me coming has been the quality of the articles as well as the openness of everything covered here. Despite having its roots surrounding Whistler, I can't really say that I saw bias. The site is still my first source for all things tech. But, yes, I've noticed the growing immaturity of the comments that are posted here. A fine example is when Simon posted his editorial regarding the build of Mac notebooks. I think the mob was practically ready to lynch him, were it not for the electronic nature of communication. It's one thing to disagree with someone's opinion; it's another thing to lack any respect or tact and insult him over it.

My little rant is probably incoherent, since it's kind of late here. What I'm really trying to say is that it just seems that the quality of the community has really gone downhill. I won't go to other sites because, well, yes, I'm well aware of the trolling that goes on there. Neowin's always been better than that, which is why I continue to stay. I commend the mods and news posters for what they have contributed over the years. Over all, I've a great respect for the community and the knowledge that it has to share. But some of the users need to learn a bit of tolerance and respect.

[evo_spook]

I think the front page news is almost now a no go area, I just reading the top stories now (and leaving out Apple) its bash away on Opera, Firefox, Linux, Google and EU, basically there is now a lynch mob attitude against anything that disagrees with MS, and these same people with this attitude are usually the first to attack others for being "fanboys", any logic on any case goes out the window

[Quillz]

I think the front page news is almost now a no go area, I just reading the top stories now (and leaving out Apple) its bash away on Opera, Firefox, Linux, Google and EU, basically there is now a lynch mob attitude against anything that disagrees with MS, and these same people with this attitude are usually the first to attack others for being "fanboys", any logic on any case goes out the window

And again, if this bothers you, then go to a place like AppleInsider or MacRumors that does nothing but post biased, pro-Apple articles and is full of people bashing Windows, Linux, Steve Ballmer and anyone who doesn't have the highest praise for all things Apple.

You're going to find fanboys and zealots no matter where you go. And I think you'll find that Neowin is actually a very balanced site, especially when compared to others. As much as I like being a Mac user, I literally cringe at some of the crap that gets posted on places like MacRumors.

[NeoTrunks]

That is exactly why I still come here, Quillz. I don't think anyone is making the claim that the site is biased. And I've nothing wrong with seeing a negative article regarding Apple. I also do not worship Steve Jobs (contrary to what others would tell you). All we are trying to say is that there is always a crowd ready to derail any article. It's immature to start calling people ignorant based on the products they choose to use. And its not that I take any of the hostility personally, it's just that it takes away from any possible level headed discussion.

[Miuku.]

And again, if this bothers you, then go to a place like AppleInsider or MacRumors that does nothing but post biased, pro-Apple articles and is full of people bashing Windows, Linux, Steve Ballmer and anyone who doesn't have the highest praise for all things Apple.

And you miss the point by a kilometre or two. We aren't interested in going to a site that bashes Windows, we aren't interested in a site that bashes Apple - what we're interested in is a site that doesn't advertise itself as being non-biased but at the same time does nothing but post anti-EU, anti-Opera, anti-Apple and pro-MS news on the front page and allow trollish fanboys comments to go freely on one side of the fence but delete and punish those that have the "audacity" to stand up to the fanboys.

And I think you'll find that Neowin is actually a very balanced site, especially when compared to others.

No, not really.

I'd say something about the administrators but I was already slapped +20% for that one so I'll just pass and let you have wild guesses as to what I posted about them regarding my earlier comment.

[Argi]

Less whining tbh. If you don't want any bias then disconnect your internet, throw away your newspapers and lock yourself in your room.

Neowin's a better source than most. Ars Technica is probably one of the best.

[Richard Hammond]

Its probably already been said but the reason people are so hostile towards Mac users is the smug elitist im better than you attitude most of them have over everyone who doesnt use a mac, they talk down at you like you couldnt possibly understand Macs and always regurgitating the crap that Steve Jobs spews out of his rectum like "the mac experience" and "it just works".

[Miuku.]

Its probably already been said but the reason people are so hostile towards Mac users is the smug elitist im better than you attitude most of them have over everyone who doesnt use a mac

Most of them - say what? Do you personally KNOW every Mac user so you can make that comment?

You can browse ALL the Mac threads here on Neowin and still you couldn't make that comment.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Its probably already been said but the reason people are so hostile towards Mac users is the smug elitist im better than you attitude most of them have over everyone who doesnt use a mac, they talk down at you like you couldnt possibly understand Macs and always regurgitating the crap that Steve Jobs spews out of his rectum like "the mac experience" and "it just works".

To be fair, a good deal of crap originated from Apple's deliberately inflammatory ads (personification of the operating systems was not accidental, it was targetting the users as much as the OS), and the users of Apple products, whether deservingly or not, got caught in the backlash from that.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I don't see why not. It's a great source for technology related news. I realize that Neowin may be visited by more Windows users than Apple users, but that doesn't mean they aren't welcome here.

[Colin-uk Veteran]

And you miss the point by a kilometre or two. We aren't interested in going to a site that bashes Windows, we aren't interested in a site that bashes Apple - what we're interested in is a site that doesn't advertise itself as being non-biased but at the same time does nothing but post anti-EU, anti-Opera, anti-Apple and pro-MS news on the front page and allow trollish fanboys comments to go freely on one side of the fence but delete and punish those that have the "audacity" to stand up to the fanboys.

No, not really.

I'd say something about the administrators but I was already slapped +20% for that one so I'll just pass and let you have wild guesses as to what I posted about them regarding my earlier comment.

feel free to go somewhere else.

... If you don't want any bias then disconnect your internet, throw away your newspapers and lock yourself in your room. ...

+1 (Y).

[evo_spook]

I'm surprised by your response, pretty musch says it all really, have you honestly read some of the front page news stories?

Poor attitude by a Moderator.

And again, if this bothers you, then go to a place like AppleInsider or MacRumors that does nothing but post biased, pro-Apple articles and is full of people bashing Windows, Linux, Steve Ballmer and anyone who doesn't have the highest praise for all things Apple.

You're going to find fanboys and zealots no matter where you go. And I think you'll find that Neowin is actually a very balanced site, especially when compared to others. As much as I like being a Mac user, I literally cringe at some of the crap that gets posted on places like MacRumors.

As mentioned by Pheonix, I left out Apple and made mention of all the other items who when a news story gets posted about them gets a load of windows fanboys piling in making off topic comments to get their slam in.

It seems a situation, as evidenced above that the mods are happy with.

[Calum Veteran]

As mentioned by Pheonix, I left out Apple and made mention of all the other items who when a news story gets posted about them gets a load of windows fanboys piling in making off topic comments to get their slam in.

From what I gather, you and daPhoenix are mistaken. I can only assume you may have seen one or two articles, where comments have been at their worst, and then assumed all articles end up as a flame-fest. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, if you could link me to some examples, so I can understand what you are talking about, that would be great :) As an article comment moderator, I am confused by some of what you have said.

I have seen many great discussions in the comment sections of different articles recently and I only remember one article where it was painful to read the comment section; however, since then we have cracked down greatly. Neowin took on 3 article comment moderators (myself, GreyWolfSC and rm20010) and we regularly go through and check the comments on each article as well as deal with the reported comments.

It is probably impossible to see every single comment, so if you do see a comment which breaks our rules, please report it and it will be dealt with, if it does indeed break our rules :)

I think it is a bit rash to stop looking at the front page and take us out of your bookmarks. If you feel the article comment moderators aren't doing as well as they could, then please send a personal message to a supervisor and discuss your concerns with them; linking to certain comments you find innapropriate would help a great deal. I feel that I am doing a great job and I also feel the same about GreyWolf and rm, but I know we would all take constructive criticism seriously.

As I say, I think the articles may have become much better since you last looked. We don't even allow people to use terms like "M$", "Micro$oft", "Crapple" etc anymore - those terms are flame-bait and we are cracking down. Likewise, calling somebody a "fanboy" or "troll", directly, is a warnable offence - it is a personal attack. Comments like those all de-rail the discussion and at Neowin we aim to provide an enjoyable experience for all.

[evo_spook]

Hi Calum, as I've said a few times, nothing against the staff here, or the quality of the news stories, maybe as you said I am reading the wrong ones, and getting a inaccurate picture, well, maybe its just they seem the most interesting ones, but, If I take for an example two from the top of the front page.

The Firefox gaining more users and Linux Fat32 debate. In The firefox, for some reason some posters felt the need to continue their campaign against Opera, something which its roots some to beginning just that they are complaining against microsoft, nothing to do with their claims being valid or not.

The Linux news, posters got in quick to come out and say this was a way of scaming MS, you must ask how old are these people? Not all of them are youths .

I think these type of responses are multiplied in the Apple news storys that are now overwhelmed by such comments. I think theres nothing wrong with the site, its one of the more accessible tech sites, but it nows seems to be getting a lot people who just want to make comments that are riling rather then on the subject.

[Eric Veteran]

There's also the "No (citing of) vitimzation" thing. If you see a crappy comment, report it. Don't respond to it and post the same offense the original comment commited. We seriously cannot read every single piece of content that every user creates. Whether you believe it or not, we remove junk comments from Apple articles all day long just as much as every other article.