Neowin - Should it still be in a Mac users bookmarks?

[Miuku.]

It's the same OS, it runs the same software, runs the same updates...

Ah the "same updates" that wreck the system much of the time. That's why the InsanelyMac forums are filled with people who torrent their update off of Mininova or Piratebay.

The machine is a means to an end to use an operating system. OSX on a hackintosh is no different than OSX on a genuine apple.

It is different - it's breaking the agreement you had with Apple and as far as I am concerned, it's no better than stealing. If you had bothered to check the Darwin code a bit, it even has "Please don't steal" message to the Hackintosh people in it.

[Steeley]

Ah the "same updates" that wreck the system much of the time. That's why the InsanelyMac forums are filled with people who torrent their update off of Mininova or Piratebay.

It is different - it's breaking the agreement you had with Apple and as far as I am concerned, it's no better than stealing. If you had bothered to check the Darwin code a bit, it even has "Please don't steal" message to the Hackintosh people in it.

Not on my machine. Updates with no issues.

And I bought OSX directly from apple for $A158 no less, so don't call me a thief. Neowin has posted as a sticky in the mac section on how Apple's EULA is worth about as much as wet toilet paper and I agree - I pay my money I'll install it where I like.

[.Neo]

What's growing tiresome are many of the comments posted around here these days. The Mac OS X v10.5.8 Update comments on the main pages are 99% flames.

[Eric Veteran]

What's growing tiresome are many of the comments posted around here these days. The Mac OS X v10.5.8 Update comments on the main pages are 99% flames.

Report them if they're flaming. I see plenty of Mac users flaming on the Microsoft Store news alone, and that's just the first article I looked at. You can't just single out bad comments in an Apple article and ignore the others. ;)

[Subject Delta]

It is different - it's breaking the agreement you had with Apple and as far as I am concerned, it's no better than stealing. If you had bothered to check the Darwin code a bit, it even has "Please don't steal" message to the Hackintosh people in it.

Violation of EULA and pirating software are not the same thing. Calling people thief's is just insulting.

[.Neo]

Report them if they're flaming. I see plenty of Mac users flaming on the Microsoft Store news alone, and that's just the first article I looked at. You can't just single out bad comments in an Apple article and ignore the others. ;)

True that.

[V-99 ODST]

I'll be laughing if someone starts Neomac.net domain name because of this.

[evo_spook]

I'll be laughing if someone starts Neomac.net domain name because of this.

Just checked, its already taken :-p

[V-99 ODST]

Just checked, its already taken :-p

what's weird is that neowin's current look would be so perfect for neomac.

[Yogi]

I find these apple v/s microsoft arguments extremely childish. An even worse that a site which primarily is a tech site with articles collected across the globe has to bear the brunt of holding numerous pages of these "wars" in their database just because someone uses an operating system of preference!

Constructive criticism has lost its meaning with subscribers in neowin, it has nothing to do with what the site embraces. I believe neowin gives us enough information on a daily basis (literally) on the tech world.. there may be front page opinions which in all fairness, are quite neutral to an OS, they do post good and bads about everything.

Apple tends to be fairy dictatorial in their decisions or at least put across their feelings that way, whereas microsoft, traditionally does tend to play their politics better (except for balmer, hes a fool!). But on the other hand, Apple markets its product quite amazingly, which developed its niche with the likes of mont blancs etc.

This of course, in the long run, had its disadvantages when they wanted to go fully mainstream and led to product bashing in spite of using common technology / hardware, which obviously didnt go well with the other enthusiasts. In its own peculiar way, it still acknowledges microsoft popularity by giving its users "the best of both worlds", but if by its own "openness", should allow microsoft to do the same, which obviously is never going to happen in the coming days at least.

End of it all, currently it seems like microsoft is playing good cop and apple is playing bad cop, but they both want the same result, higher sales, higher profit. This trend happened due to apple's sudden spurt in growth with some amazing and some not so amazing products and due to some slackness on microsoft's part with respect to vista before SP1 and so on.. but end of day, calling a site names just because it portrays current trends "unprofessionally" is probably downright stupidity, after all the site just reports, the people screw it up with their insane comments!

[jonhapimp]

I find these apple v/s microsoft arguments extremely childish. An even worse that a site which primarily is a tech site with articles collected across the globe has to bear the brunt of holding numerous pages of these "wars" in their database just because someone uses an operating system of preference!

Constructive criticism has lost its meaning with subscribers in neowin, it has nothing to do with what the site embraces. I believe neowin gives us enough information on a daily basis (literally) on the tech world.. there may be front page opinions which in all fairness, are quite neutral to an OS, they do post good and bads about everything.

Apple tends to be fairy dictatorial in their decisions or at least put across their feelings that way, whereas microsoft, traditionally does tend to play their politics better (except for balmer, hes a fool!). But on the other hand, Apple markets its product quite amazingly, which developed its niche with the likes of mont blancs etc.

This of course, in the long run, had its disadvantages when they wanted to go fully mainstream and led to product bashing in spite of using common technology / hardware, which obviously didnt go well with the other enthusiasts. In its own peculiar way, it still acknowledges microsoft popularity by giving its users "the best of both worlds", but if by its own "openness", should allow microsoft to do the same, which obviously is never going to happen in the coming days at least.

End of it all, currently it seems like microsoft is playing good cop and apple is playing bad cop, but they both want the same result, higher sales, higher profit. This trend happened due to apple's sudden spurt in growth with some amazing and some not so amazing products and due to some slackness on microsoft's part with respect to vista before SP1 and so on.. but end of day, calling a site names just because it portrays current trends "unprofessionally" is probably downright stupidity, after all the site just reports, the people screw it up with their insane comments!

[Yogi]

:trout:

[Livin in a box]

One thing I'll say about Macs:

They are horrendously overpriced.

[Vice]

One thing I'll say about Macs:

They are horrendously overpriced.

I think the same thing about Windows in comparison to Ubuntu. ?200+ for Windows 7 Ultimate?! - No thank you I'll take my Ubuntu;))

[Subject Delta]

I think the same thing about Windows in comparison to Ubuntu. ?200+ for Windows 7 Ultimate?! - No thank you I'll take my Ubuntu;))

For me, comparing a paid product to a free one is a bit hard, but when you compare Windows 7 to the retail prices of all other versions it actually looks very good (more so for a first time adopter, than someone who already brought Vista admittedly). Still, depends on the user, of course Linux is great value if you don't do any gaming, in fact there are even some circumstances where I would prefer its use to Windows.

[Vice]

For me, comparing a paid product to a free one is a bit hard, but when you compare Windows 7 to the retail prices of all other versions it actually looks very good (more so for a first time adopter, than someone who already brought Vista admittedly). Still, depends on the user, of course Linux is great value if you don't do any gaming, in fact there are even some circumstances where I would prefer its use to Windows.

This was my point in posting what I posted. People see value in different things. To you Windows is not exspensive. But to some Linux users it may be. To some Windows users like the guy I quoted a Mac is exspensive. But to some Mac users maybe not. It depends how you use the computer, what you use it for and what value you place on that.

I think Windows 7 the final prices are quite high. But I got my copy for only ?44 from Amazon on a 4 month pre-order that was only available for 24 hours. The price has since gone up to around ?70 and will continue to climb until it is finally available. I am speaking of the lowest priced retail version Home Premium.

Mac's are exspensive relative to other things on the market but to the people that use their machine day in and day out and love the way it works its priceless. And I would say that is the same for Windows users especially the hardcore gamers and Linux users who love the ability to tear down the entire OS and make any changes they want. These advantages are priceless to those who appreciate them.

[Subject Delta]

Absolutely, I totally agree with you. I actually think the Ultimate edition of Windows is overpriced (especially with 7 as you actually get even less extra features than you did with Vista).

For me, the Mac notebooks are totally worth their price, I personally as an enthusiast find the cost of their desktop machines to be a bit hard to justify. The only good thing is that Apple offer very cheap upgrade deals with OSX which is helpful to people who have only just purchased a mac.

[REM2000]

Absolutely, I totally agree with you. I actually think the Ultimate edition of Windows is overpriced (especially with 7 as you actually get even less extra features than you did with Vista).

For me, the Mac notebooks are totally worth their price, I personally as an enthusiast find the cost of their desktop machines to be a bit hard to justify. The only good thing is that Apple offer very cheap upgrade deals with OSX which is helpful to people who have only just purchased a mac.

Exactly.

It's the same reason why there is so much variety in cars, each person has different tastes and requirements.

Many enthusiasts that love computers are usually platform agnostic and have one of each, i know i do. I own Mac's, Windows PC's and Linux machines. Each has there place and each are just as good as the other.

I love the UI of the Mac, Expose and the work flow.

Windows i love the technology, reading articles from Mark Russovich really exposes some of the talent and engineering that has gone into Windows, technologies such as NTFS version found in Vista/2008.

Linux i love the hacking of the platform, the ability to setup linux appliances which are geared towards single purpose solutions.

[BoDEAN]

I don't know if this is because there is now a younger element just joining?

There was a post in the news section very similar to what I'm asking, if you are a macuser, is Neowin still a site worth visiting for calm tech news and discussion or is it best moving on?

To answer your first question, I don't think it's a younger crowd, just seem to be top heavy on the modding of this board lately. If you make an ill comment about anything, bam, warning.

2nd question: I would move on. GF has a mac, never comes to this site for any information regarding macs. She visits, along with her co-workers, http://db.tidbits.com/

[Vice]

A lot of the Software they sell is priced very well. For example Colour which is included in Final Cut Pro. Standalone that application used to cost ?15,118 but within Final Cut Studio it's only ?799. iWork and iLife are also priced quite nicely with iLife coming free with a new Mac purchase. Apple make their money from the Hardware and then sell the Software quite cheaply.

When Snow Leopard ships its going to be about ?17 for anyone with the current version of Leopard. Quite attractive obviously considering that Snow Leopard is to OS X as Windows 7 is to Windows. Basically a Tuned Up version with little new features but high on performance, stability and architecture changes for an improved base from which to launch future versions.

It used to be that Apple had the best notebooks. They really were the best but that was a long long time ago when the Pentium was the best Notebook CPU for PC's and discrete mobile graphics were limited with hardly any choice. This was when Apple took their high margins and put them in to aluminium enclosures and light up keyboards. But today Dell have notebooks that look just as good and beat the specs of Apples range of hardware for a significantly lower entry price. They also include a lot of the things Apple introduced like Widescreen displays and Illuminated Keyboards.

This is where Apple are failing their userbase. We don't get a lot of choice with Apple and whilst their hardware designs a'different'/i> it is the features and performance or to use another phrase, Performance per Dollar. Mac hardware is ****-poor in comparison to other systems. You can build or buy a system much better specced in every division. It doesn't run OS X though and I think that is where most Mac users are willing to make a concession in their Hardware to get the Software. OS X is really good, it's not everything to everyone but to some like myself I wouldn't want to use anything else in my portable machine just like I wouldn't want to run OS X on my desktop where I want to game among other things where OS X just doesn't make sense.

Anyway enough ramblings from me.

[ccuk]

Ah the "same updates" that wreck the system much of the time. That's why the InsanelyMac forums are filled with people who torrent their update off of Mininova or Piratebay.

It is different - it's breaking the agreement you had with Apple and as far as I am concerned, it's no better than stealing. If you had bothered to check the Darwin code a bit, it even has "Please don't steal" message to the Hackintosh people in it.

How is installing a retail copy of Leopard stealing?

[the evn show]

How is installing a retail copy of Leopard stealing?

The reasoning goes:

1. Apple says: "Here you can use this software if you agree to <rules x,y, and z> and gives us $130. You don't own it but we'll license you a copy."
   
2. You say "Sure, here's $130 and take the box home"
   
3. You install Mac OS X on unapproved hardware.
   
4. Apple says "Hey, rule #1 is 'Macs only': your license is revoked and you have no right to use the software." (you're supposed to return software to the retailer if you don't agree to the terms of the EULA to get a refund)
   
5. You keep using software without a license due to a sense of entitlement, disrespect for the agreement you entered, plain old criminal mania (stickin' it to the man), or some other reason.
   

Using software without a valid license is what most people mean by stealing which IMO is a bad choice of words.

It's more on par with buying a single-user copy and installing it on all the computers in your office: Apple revokes your license to all copies even though you paid for one. In terms of "right to use the software" the argument goes that "unlicensed is unlicensed" and downloading a copy from pirate bay (are they still around?) or borrowing an install DVD from a friend that bought it carry the exact same licenses: none.

Actually stealing a boxed copy of the software from an Apple store would give you a valid license, an unlawfully obtained one, but valid all the same.

[anthony]

Well, I know some people got off on a tangent on EULAs but if I can get back to the original topic.

I think we Apple folks are just a touchy few. There are Apple fanboys, and Microsoft zealots, and for everything on earth there is someone who hates it and someone who loves it. I think there is just so little difference it's not worth the argument anymore. I love Macs, I don't own a Windows PC, but I do use Boot Camp, and although it may or may not be because I write here, I like it here. The community is about so much more then Windows now. I think there are just a large number of Apple fans who take criticisms of Mac OS and Apple as personal attacks against them and I really wish that would end. While the community might be more Windows-centric, guess what...that's because so is the entire industry.

[Owen W Veteran]

Reading Neowin these past weeks, the tone of most of the windows posters on the forum and the main news site has seemed to have become very hostile, theres a exceeding amount of bile being thrown about, you only have to read the latest safari story, 70% of the posts have little to do with the subject, but are being posted to get a kick in, no matter if its correct or not.

I don't know if this is because there is now a younger element just joining?

There was a post in the news section very similar to what I'm asking, if you are a macuser, is Neowin still a site worth visiting for calm tech news and discussion or is it best moving on?

I've noticed this too, but I do believe that the Mac coverage has been quite neutral, along with the Windows coverage.

The problem is you're always gonna find fanboys.

[evo_spook]

Neowin is good in that its technology reviews is very rounded and not done in a high brow technical fashion.

I think theres a very small minority spoiling it as if there is a apple news story you can always count on the same people jumping in to add their two pennies worth. Now if it was valid critisicm or actually something of substance then it wouldn't be bad but usually a lot is not even relevant to the news story.

I don't think its a mac thing really, as I mentioned I think some of the window fanboys went way over the top in there crusade against Opera, its like that can be no wrong done against Windows rather then having some perspective, and yes that can also apply to other fanboys, its probably more noticable here as the windows are in majority, go to macrumors and then it'd be probs be the other way round, but I don't make a habit of going there.