Sethos Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hey, Thing is, I never, ever messed about with my Windows paging file - I always left it alone because I didn't have a proper understanding of it. Now a guy within my ArmA II clan is telling me, disabling the page file can have a positive effect on the games micro stutters, yet I want to make absolutely sure it's not a load of sausage. I have 6GB of Tripple channel memory available, so I don't really need that extra 'offloading space' but could it have any adverse effect? Thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan R. Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Windows knows what information is actively being used and what is not; what information should stay in RAM and what should be paged. If you are playing a game, there is no way Windows is going to page any of the data it needs. It really is as simple as that, but yet, without doubt, countless oblivious or otherwise misinformed people will tell you to disable the page file all together...watch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+allan MVC Posted August 14, 2009 MVC Share Posted August 14, 2009 I have not yet installed Windows 7, but after using every version of Windows ever released and providing support to all of them I can tell you that you should never disable the pagefile (the OS will still page "system files" anyway and you'll never know it, but you will lose the ability for 3rd party programs to access virtual memory) . Having said that, if you want to do so go ahead. It can't hurt anything and it's your computer. You can always reenable it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cork1958 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 With that ungodly amount of memory, you will have no issues. I know you're talking Windows 7. I've ran my XP Pro with only 384mb's memory and page file disabled and never had an issue. Never did anything really strenuous to the system during those times either though. About the hardest thing I did while running like that was burn a few cd-r's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Monkey Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Back when Windows 95 was still out there you could do interesting things like loading a driver during boot that created a ramdrive that you could then use for your pagefile (that system was really limited in the amount of RAM that it could address in normal useage). A fairly standard tweak for a while was to disable the pagefile, defrag your disk, then reenable the pagefile set to a fixed size. Or you could put the pagefile on a faster small drive on a separate bus from your system drive that was dedicated just to that. I don't think that straight up disabling it period should provide any significant benefits unless you have a really large amount of RAM (and you're able to access it, if you're not on x64, why do you have six gigs?) and a really slow hard drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 even if you turn it off, windows still uses it... and MS still wants to use it even with 12GB of RAM there are still reasons to have it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svnO.o Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 A little bit off topic but, I had a problem with Windows 7 stuttering on me the other day when my friend brought his flash drive over and I was transferring files. I'm not 100% positive (haven't tested it) but I think that having only 512MB dedicated towards page files for all drives was the culprit. I have 8GB of ram and a quad core machine yet transferring files onto that flash drive made my comp stutter and the files took forever to transfer (about 3.5GB worth, though my friend was using XP on a low-end laptop and transferred files back to his comp 3x faster, also transferring from 1 HD to another on my comp never caused any stuttering). When I'm not lazy I'll do a proper test and see if lack of a decent page file size is really the problem or not. As for whether you should do it or not -- it can't really hurt. Just disable it and see if you notice any improvements. If any problems occur just change it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+allan MVC Posted August 14, 2009 MVC Share Posted August 14, 2009 As neufuse said, Windows will always page. You can't ever really disable the pagefile, only your ability to manage it. And as I mentioned above, some programs which want (or even need) to use virtual memory will no longer be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeusProto Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Windows 7 is much better at memory management than XP. I still, however, disable the page file as I still get a performance benefit. Try it out for yourself and see if any software runs faster. You can always re-enable it if problems arise. I ran XP for five years without one without any problems. The jury is still out for me on whether it causes problems in 7. EDIT: One thing you will lose by disabling it is the ability for Windows to create memory dumps from BSODs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Hey,Thing is, I never, ever messed about with my Windows paging file - I always left it alone because I didn't have a proper understanding of it. Now a guy within my ArmA II clan is telling me, disabling the page file can have a positive effect on the games micro stutters, yet I want to make absolutely sure it's not a load of sausage. I have 6GB of Tripple channel memory available, so I don't really need that extra 'offloading space' but could it have any adverse effect? Thanks :) Its a load of sausage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCKX Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Don't disable it. Some software uses it regardless of RAM,4-8GB won't matter if your pagefile is 1GB you will still get an error message when rendering.After Effects for example...set pagefile to 2GB and you'll be fine.What you prolly want is this tweak which is available on all tweaking software and can be done manually too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxz Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 i disabled the pagefile because i want my files at the beginning of the hdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_kane81 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 See these two links for info on pagefile and how it works - really good read!!!! http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/a...17/3155406.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/janelewis/archive...g-is-yours.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [...] (the OS will still page "system files" anyway and you'll never know it [...] even if you turn it off, windows still uses it... and MS still wants to use it even with 12GB of RAM there are still reasons to have it there As neufuse said, Windows will always page. You can't ever really disable the pagefile, only your ability to manage it. And as I mentioned above, some programs which want (or even need) to use virtual memory will no longer be able to. This is NOT true. If you disable the page file, it is DISABLED. Windows does NOT go behind your back and creates super-seekrit page files. Once you turn it off, it's GONE. I don't know where this moronic myth came from. I think it came from the fact that XP's task manager has a graph that says "page file usage" even though the graph doesn't actually show that. The myth that disabling the page file serves any purpose likely also comes from there, because people think the graph means that Windows is always paging stuff to disk even though it isn't. Windows will only page stuff out to disk if it's absolutely necessary. No part of task manager can show you when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimsland Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Instead of disabling the Page file make it 50Meg Min and Max That way all programs that need it will still be ok, and Windows will run fast (this only on higher Ram amounts) Actually strictly speaking the Page file is there to make things run fast The real problem is that since the old 1.5X days, no one can honestly say what's a good size on the page file. Its recommended to try this amount and that amount until it seems to be running well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 No, the page file is not there to make things run fast, it is there to provide disk-based backing for memory so that it is possible to use more memory than the system has available. Just leave the damn thing alone at the defaults. You are not smarter than the memory manager designers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjor Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think they are all a little confused as sometimes when you disable the pagefile, windows doesnt delete it right away. Some may assume that once its disabled, it should disappear right away, when a reboot is required. And the fact that sometimes, allthough rarely, windows fails to delete the file even after a reboot. None the less, I recommend keeping your page-file set up as "System Managed" BUT move it to a secondary drive. Don't put the pagefile on your system drive (the one with Windows installed on it). Place it on a secondary one if you have it. In my case, I have 5 different HDD's in my computer. One of them I simply use to store old installation files and files I move around on my network. Since this disk is used rarely, I put the pagefile on this disk giving Windows allmost a complete HDD just for the pagefile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 This is NOT true. If you disable the page file, it is DISABLED. Windows does NOT go behind your back and creates super-seekrit page files. Once you turn it off, it's GONE.I don't know where this moronic myth came from. I think it came from the fact that XP's task manager has a graph that says "page file usage" even though the graph doesn't actually show that. The myth that disabling the page file serves any purpose likely also comes from there, because people think the graph means that Windows is always paging stuff to disk even though it isn't. Windows will only page stuff out to disk if it's absolutely necessary. No part of task manager can show you when this happens. That'd kind of contradict MS's own documentation that says when disabled if needed it will create it on its own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimsland Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Well if that's the only reason then with users above 2gig they wouldn't need a pagefile in most cases No, the pagefile also can optimize and run your system smoother and faster (lots of depends upon here, though) I was replying to two posts ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Don't put the pagefile on your system drive (the one with Windows installed on it). Place it on a secondary one if you have it. In my case, I have 5 different HDD's in my computer. One of them I simply use to store old installation files and files I move around on my network. Keeping it on the boot volume serves one purpose though. It will let you store crash dumps (which are written directly to the sectors of the boot volume where the page file lives). That'd kind of contradict MS's own documentation that says when disabled if needed it will create it on its own... Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimsland Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think some are confusing "Total Mem" with PageFile on its own Total (taskManager reported) Memory=PageFile + Ram If No Page File Total Memory=Ram (only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 Keeping it on the boot volume serves one purpose though. It will let you store crash dumps (which are written directly to the sectors of the boot volume where the page file lives).Nonsense. so your telling me that, according to the driver sdk, when the system crashes and the page file is disabled, it will not create a page file of equal size to the kernel memory for purpouses of dumping the RAM contents... amazing, the Windows Hardware SDK people must all be idiots then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 No, the pagefile also can optimize and run your system smoother and faster (lots of depends upon here, though) No, it cannot. All it does is let you save pages to disk, so that you can use more memory than is available or page out memory belonging to minimized applications you aren't using so it can be used by other programs. so your telling me that, according to the driver sdk, when the system crashes and the page file is disabled, it will not create a page file of equal size to the kernel memory for purpouses of dumping the RAM contents... amazing, the Windows Hardware SDK people must all be idiots then.... First of all, the crash dumps have nothing to do with the page file itself. The kernel simply uses the physical sectors occupied by it to dump raw data to without any file system driver because that can be safely done without damaging any data. If there is no page file, or if you move the page file to somewhere other than the boot volume, it will not write dumps. How would it do it? The file system driver is gone, it's not running, it can't create a page file at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimsland Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 No, it cannot. All it does is let you save pages to disk, so that you can use more memory than is available or page out memory belonging to minimized applications you aren't using so it can be used by other programs. The why does a system run faster without it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neufuse Veteran Posted August 14, 2009 Veteran Share Posted August 14, 2009 No, it cannot. All it does is let you save pages to disk, so that you can use more memory than is available or page out memory belonging to minimized applications you aren't using so it can be used by other programs.First of all, the crash dumps have nothing to do with the page file itself. The kernel simply uses the physical sectors occupied by it to dump raw data to without any file system driver because that can be safely done without damaging any data. If there is no page file, or if you move the page file to somewhere other than the boot volume, it will not write dumps. How would it do it? The file system driver is gone, it's not running, it can't create a page file at this point. might want to take that up with the people who wrote the SDK documentation then because they have it in there ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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