Subject Delta Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The only thing that I am going to say is if you found windows 7 useful then good for you, but I found myself to be more productively and confident with OS X. That's my experience and I just going to end my conversation with you guys. Good luck with your Windows 7! Translation: My knowledge has been found lacking and I am backing out to save further embarassment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Having a great experience with a particular OS and telling about its considered advertising? jesus, chill out dude. That's not what you did, and not what he said. You repeated Apple advertising. ie. You bashed the competition without saying anything about why your preferred product was better; just that it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Play fair now. ;) Making it fair: ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonbear Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Windows still hasn't gotten rid of the Registry and DLL stuff, some of the things that were pointed out by Bertrand Serlet during WWDC 09. He did have a point. I own both a Mac and a PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTempestSonata Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Play fair now. ;)Windows 7 Control Panel (by default): No need to even get into 7... Been happening for a while. And no, they're NOT the same. They're segmented. It's much easier to see everything when you click on the options in the default view. There's only the items in the selected section. It's not even as cluttered and messy as the Mac side at that point. Windows XP Control Panel, by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It's not even as cluttered and messy as the Mac side at that point. I don't see how the categories of Mac OS X' System Preferences are any more or less cluttered and messy than the Windows ones. Except for the fact that in the end Windows has about 2 times as many preference panes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTempestSonata Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I don't see how the categories of Mac OS X' System Preferences are any more or less cluttered and messy than the Windows ones. Except for the fact that in the end Windows has about 2 times as many preference panes. You click a category and you get the three or four options that are associated with that category, versus just seeing every possible icon organized by category one one page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted October 28, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) For the record, Windows 7's Control Panel is better in terms of search versus OS X's using Spotlight. You can search within the classic or category view - either one returns the same results. In OS X, I believe all System Preferences does is simply highlight which icons are relevant to your search. In Windows 7, it specifically lists the links that take you to the relevant control panel: Or perhaps let's pick a less trivial example, one that regular users might not know where to find: the troubleshooter for network problems: Edited October 28, 2009 by rm20010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Windows still hasn't gotten rid of the Registry and DLL stuff, some of the things that were pointed out by Bertrand Serlet during WWDC 09. He did have a point.I own both a Mac and a PC. All OS's use DLL's or their equivelents. As for the registry; how do you propose Microsoft get rid of it, when doing so would totally destroy any kind of backwards compatibility and ensure that NO Windows software written prior to the new version without the registry, would actually work? Besides which, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the registry itself, merely in how sloppy programmers use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zagor Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 All OS's use DLL's or their equivelents.As for the registry; how do you propose Microsoft get rid of it, when doing so would totally destroy any kind of backwards compatibility and ensure that NO Windows software written prior to the new version without the registry, would actually work? Besides which, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the registry itself, merely in how sloppy programmers use it. Indeed...I don't remember having any .dll issues since windows XP. And what registry does is nothing different than configuration files. Except one difference, it provides a centralized database. I bet %99.9 of people who tries to trash .dll or registry in this thread have not coded a single line of a computer program... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Windows still hasn't gotten rid of the Registry and DLL stuff, some of the things that were pointed out by Bertrand Serlet during WWDC 09. He did have a point.I own both a Mac and a PC. As I already pointed out all OSes have runtime libraries, to eliminate them would just increase the size of every executable drastically, and the same goes for every OS on the market not just Windows. As for eliminating the registry... You really think that Microsoft want to commit business suicide by rendering practically every application and piece of hardware on the market totally useless? Apple got away with it with OSX because at that time their marketshare was tiny, and they only catered to a niche market that was able to adapt reasonably quickly. Just looking at how long it has taken businesses to adapt to the (in relative terms compared to an entire OS rewrite) relatively minor changes made to Vista and 7 tells me that they would take years to adapt to a version of Windows with such sweeping changes, in fact the cost to the economy as a whole would be tremendous. I for one would never buy a version of Windows that screwed up all the apps that I use, as some things like older games wouldn't be fixed. I personally think with Windows 7 Microsoft have found a brilliant way to bring Windows up to date without totally destroying backwards compatibility I don't see how the categories of Mac OS X' System Preferences are any more or less cluttered and messy than the Windows ones. Except for the fact that in the end Windows has about 2 times as many preference panes. I prefer the way Windows does it, its all arranged in alphabetical order which I actually find better than having it categorised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTempestSonata Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I prefer the way Windows does it, its all arranged in alphabetical order which I actually find better than having it categorised. I'm going to just say this: With Windows, you need to know your system. If you do this, Windows is typically easier to do almost anything with. I prefer to manage my files, I know my file and folder names, and I've been organizing my own files since Windows 98. It's just easier for me to do it myself than to have my computer do it for me. I look at Mac as being GMail with the archive and labels feature. Alphabetizing my list is easier for me than categories as well, but at least Windows gives you the option to have either. The problems that people see about Windows are usually a result from the fact that you can do more to manipluate the OS. If I don't like Windows interface, I can change it. If I don't like Mac's interface, I need to look into purchasing something different. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob21 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Windows still hasn't gotten rid of the Registry and DLL stuff, some of the things that were pointed out by Bertrand Serlet during WWDC 09. He did have a point.I own both a Mac and a PC. And how exactly are our programs expected to run without the registry ? The arguments agenst it fail when you realize that you can export .reg files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordkanin Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Windows still hasn't gotten rid of the Registry and DLL stuff, some of the things that were pointed out by Bertrand Serlet during WWDC 09. He did have a point.I own both a Mac and a PC. Why is that a problem? All operating systems have some form of shared library. It's a security nightmare and memory waste if they don't. As for the registry, it is simply the best tool for the job, for better or worse. The alternatives, like plain config files, all have their downsides. Per-key security, overhead in use (The registry is fast), central management, etc. The registry handles these things much better than ini or xml config files. Plus, we can't ignore COM. Any implementation of a database for COM other than the registry would be slow as hell. OSX still uses HFS+, a crappy ASLR implementation, and has no equivalent of many windows features such as exclusive mode for fullscreen gaming, the virtualization schemes employed by UAC, the secure desktop, etc. Both OSes have their strengths and weaknesses. Apple just depends more on pointing out the weaknesses of others than highlighting their own strengths. Edited October 28, 2009 by MioTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I don't see how the categories of Mac OS X' System Preferences are any more or less cluttered and messy than the Windows ones. Except for the fact that in the end Windows has about 2 times as many preference panes. Your comparison is dead wrong. You can't compare Control Panel to System Preferences like that. Control panel has more icons because it simply does more. How do you launch Disk Utility from System Preference? How do you launch Keychain? System profiler? Something equivalent to Device Manager? Where are hardware performance tools? Where is Sync Center (iSync in OSX)? Where is Apple update? System preferences is just a subset of functionality offered by the Windows Control Panel. I think it is personal preference to choose Sys Pref approach over Control Panel approach. But stop comparing Apples to Oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Apple just depends more on pointing out the weaknesses of others than highlighting their own strengths. That's because they know they wouldn't sell as much if they just advertised OSX's strengths. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTempestSonata Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 That's because they know they wouldn't sell as much if they just advertised OSX's strengths. :p At least they don't only point out the competitions' weaknesses. I still don't know what John McCain would have done as president... I just know that he really knew what Obama couldn't do. Advertising failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 At least they don't only point out the competitions' weaknesses. I still don't know what John McCain would have done as president... I just know that he really knew what Obama couldn't do. Advertising failure. Y'know, I really can't recall seeing a SINGLE Apple ad for their Mac's that actually did anything except slag off PC's. Certainly not one that actually showed you anything about what OSX can actually do... Their iPhone ads show a bit of what the device can do, so do their iPod ads, but their Mac ones? It's always slagging off the competition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdmcmahon Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 At least they don't only point out the competitions' weaknesses. I still don't know what John McCain would have done as president... I just know that he really knew what Obama couldn't do. Advertising failure. +1 That is one thing that truly drives me crazy about politics, don't tell me what "your opponent" CAN'T do, tell me what you WILL do. And yes, even as an Apple fanboy, it does drive me crazy that Cupertino resorts to this. It certainly doesn't help fight off the "smug" moniker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLien_0 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ill say this like I said before since this thread has gotten way off topic. Both OSX and Windows have its flaws and both are very similar. Apples tactics right now are aimed at the brain dead computer user who may be tired of the frustrations of windows. I talked to a marketing friend of mine and he explained that Apple doesnt need to advertise OSX in their commercials, since all they have to say is "We will show you a better world of computing" All those saying though that Windows is outdated with DLLs and the Registry, I hope you realize that all the programs you currently use wont work if Microsoft were to ditch that system. Do you realize what kind of hell that would create in the computer world. Programs would have to be specifically written for XP, Vista/7, and a specific non registry one. That would suck and be costly. If you look at OSX and Windows, they practically are the same, they do the same things pretty much. Its called competition, you honestly think that each company is not going to snoop around to make sure their OS has the latest greatest features. Ive been using Windows and OSX together since 2001 and at this point I could care less on which I use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Your comparison is dead wrong. You can't compare Control Panel to System Preferences like that. Control panel has more icons because it simply does more. The only comparison I made is that the Control Panel offers more panes/panels than System Preferences does, how is that in any way "dead wrong"? I prefer the way Windows does it, its all arranged in alphabetical order which I actually find better than having it categorised. You mean like this? I wonder if people are going to explain how Windows 7's way of sorting in alphabetical order is way more awesome and superior than on Mac OS X. ;) Alphabetizing my list is easier for me than categories as well, but at least Windows gives you the option to have either. The problems that people see about Windows are usually a result from the fact that you can do more to manipluate the OS. If I don't like Windows interface, I can change it. If I don't like Mac's interface, I need to look into purchasing something different. Take a good look at the above screen shot. Surprise! Edited October 28, 2009 by .Neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The only comparison I made is that the Control Panel offers more panes/panels than System Preferences does, how is that in any way "dead wrong"? Sorry, I thought you are the OP of that post where it was implied that Control Panel layout is messy and how OS X has it better with System Preferences. Your post with additional screenshot made me think that you posted the earlier screenshots as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 No worries. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted October 28, 2009 Member Share Posted October 28, 2009 Y'know, I really can't recall seeing a SINGLE Apple ad for their Mac's that actually did anything except slag off PC's. Certainly not one that actually showed you anything about what OSX can actually do... Me either, now that I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Me either, now that I think about it. I really don't get how they can be so shortsighted on this. They manage to advertise the iPhone and iPod properly, by showing off the device and not slagging off the competition, and the sales for those are phenomenal. Maybe if the Mac ad team took a cluebat to the face from the mobile device ad team, they might get a larger market share? Twits. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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