More on LIVE Bans, HDD Crippling, Possible Ban Causes

[Draken]

Now now boys, lets focus on the REAL enemy - Microsoft!

yeah sorry :blush:

Just sealed the ethernet port of my modded box forever, I can't loose disc installs :no:

[Kushan]

You know, there's a way to put the NAND into "read only" mode so if MS tries to ban your box, it wont be able to disable that stuff (of course there's no online play, still, but HD installs still work). It's a simple one wire solder, perhaps that would be better?

[Draken]

You know, there's a way to put the NAND into "read only" mode so if MS tries to ban your box, it wont be able to disable that stuff (of course there's no online play, still, but HD installs still work). It's a simple one wire solder, perhaps that would be better?

that sounds a lot better, any link? :)

[Kushan]

that sounds a lot better, any link? :)

<snipped>

Disclaimer: I don't think this is against any of Neowin's rules as it doesn't in any way promote piracy, it merely prevents the crippling of the device itself. If, however, it IS against the rules, then feel free to remove the link but keep in mind it was not intentional on my part.

Also, if you're interested a program was released today called "XVal" (Version 2.0 by Redline99) which attempts to check if your console has logged any "bad things" offline. It does all this by taking some numbers from your dashboard's system menu and decrypting them. It's still kind of experimental at this stage and even a "clean" secdata doesn't mean you are safe, but its possibly an indication.

I can't link directly to this one, but its at the "usual places".

Edited November 25, 2009 by Colin-uk

[Draken]

Brilliant! solder iron time (Y)

Thanks a lot Kushan :)

[DrunkenMaster]

I don't have an XBox or a PS3 though I have the impression that the policy is the same. If this thing is banned permanently, there can't be a transfer of ownership so these things are more useful it seems in the landfill. It still the choice of the user to Mod, but it seems wasteful to outright ban systems never to be used again. MS could at least give a credit toward purchase of a new Xbox, have the banned one sent back and refurbished.

[Kushan]

I think if MS did that, then they would DEFINITELY be accused of being money-grabbing gits. However, I would much prefer they offer some kind of warranty transfer for second hand consoles. There's no denying there's a huge market out there and it's definitely not fair on those who can't afford a brand new console and end up getting shafted with a banned one. I guess you could argue that it's their fault for not testing the hardware before they buy, but what if it wasn't banned at the time and got banned a week or a month or a year later? Or quite simply, why should the consumer HAVE to worry about such things?

I think if MS offered a second-hand refurb of the console, unbanning it and giving it a clean bill of health for a reasonable sum, it would be much better for everyone.

[Madoshi]

here is something interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xbox-360-Banned_W0QQ...

unmodified console gets banned after 3 months of online play?

[sn00pie]

here is something interesting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xbox-360-Banned_W0QQ...

unmodified console gets banned after 3 months of online play?

Maybe it was modded but the guy never knew it? I've never played my 360 online and I've modded it.

My warranty seal is still intact too...poor guy lol. Most likely if I sell it, I'm not going to say that the console has been banned, because technically it hasn't, it will if the person plays online :p

[George P Global Moderator]

Maybe it was modded but the guy never knew it? I've never played my 360 online and I've modded it.

My warranty seal is still intact too...poor guy lol. Most likely if I sell it, I'm not going to say that the console has been banned, because technically it hasn't, it will if the person plays online :p

Oh how nice of you. This is why I never buy crap off of ebay.

[t0mbi]

Has anyone used that XVal program.

It apparently can read the 360's NAND and tell if anything has been written to it

All zeros apparently means your fine to go on Live!

Im not trying live lol..even though i got all 0's :p

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Maybe it was modded but the guy never knew it? I've never played my 360 online and I've modded it.

My warranty seal is still intact too...poor guy lol. Most likely if I sell it, I'm not going to say that the console has been banned, because technically it hasn't, it will if the person plays online :p

:no:

Technicalities ftl (N)

[Kushan]

Has anyone used that XVal program.

It apparently can read the 360's NAND and tell if anything has been written to it

All zeros apparently means your fine to go on Live!

Im not trying live lol..even though i got all 0's :p

It doesn't read the NAND, it decrypts a status message from the dashboard. That status, however, is only part of the picture and all 0's doesn't mean you're safe, it just means that 360 hasn't been flagged client-side yet. It could still be banned server side at any moment, though.

[CentralDogma]

Ebay is now littered with AS-IS and banned 360's now. :(

[Kushan]

This is not the first banwave Microsoft has done. If anything, Microsoft has been pretty consistent with their ban waves, having one in November of EVERY year (and they used to have one around Aprilish time as well). This is nothing new and all the hoo-ha its generating is nothing new, either. Give it a few months and ebay will be back to normal.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

This is not the first banwave Microsoft has done. If anything, Microsoft has been pretty consistent with their ban waves, having one in November of EVERY year (and they used to have one around Aprilish time as well). This is nothing new and all the hoo-ha its generating is nothing new, either. Give it a few months and ebay will be back to normal.

Kushan you of all people know they've never banned this many people at once :laugh:

Nothing will be "back to normal" that quickly as hysteria will continue around any firmware release for a while.

[Riffz]

I did a hdd mod on mine with a WDBEVS drive, are people getting banned for this?

[Kushan]

No, but there's never been so many 360s around, either. I'm pretty sure that, on the whole, about the same percentage of 360 users were banned and since it has such worldwide press, most people looking to buy a 360 off of ebay will be aware of the bans and most people looking to sell 360s will have the sense to mention that their console is NOT banned. So a few weeks while all of the sellers try to offload the banned consoles will pass and, for the most part, they'll give up and/or sell them at a discount. That's what happened last time.

EDIT: HDD mods are fine, for now. MS can just disable them if they want, rather than ban the whole console and yet they've not even chose to do this.

[Riffz]

No, but there's never been so many 360s around, either. I'm pretty sure that, on the whole, about the same percentage of 360 users were banned and since it has such worldwide press, most people looking to buy a 360 off of ebay will be aware of the bans and most people looking to sell 360s will have the sense to mention that their console is NOT banned. So a few weeks while all of the sellers try to offload the banned consoles will pass and, for the most part, they'll give up and/or sell them at a discount. That's what happened last time.

EDIT: HDD mods are fine, for now. MS can just disable them if they want, rather than ban the whole console and yet they've not even chose to do this.

So drive firmware is the only reason right now? Damned if I am paying the exuberant official hdd prices.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

No, but there's never been so many 360s around, either. I'm pretty sure that, on the whole, about the same percentage of 360 users were banned and since it has such worldwide press, most people looking to buy a 360 off of ebay will be aware of the bans and most people looking to sell 360s will have the sense to mention that their console is NOT banned. So a few weeks while all of the sellers try to offload the banned consoles will pass and, for the most part, they'll give up and/or sell them at a discount. That's what happened last time.

EDIT: HDD mods are fine, for now. MS can just disable them if they want, rather than ban the whole console and yet they've not even chose to do this.

If MS did successfully detect the firmware then no, there is much higher % of people banned this time. In the past bannings have typically come only from people playing bad rips - If it's firmware detection this time you potentially add anyone with a modded console into the mix.

[sn00pie]

Yeah, people were banned this time regardless if they were playing rips or not. If your 360 was flashed = banned.

[Qumahlin]

Yeah, people were banned this time regardless if they were playing rips or not. If your 360 was flashed = banned.

There is no evidence of that whatsoever because quite frankly who would have a flashed 360 and not be playing rips...

This is no different then people who would cheat in MMO's, get banned, and then swear up and down they never ever cheated...yeah..

[t0mbi]

There is no evidence of that whatsoever because quite frankly who would have a flashed 360 and not be playing rips...

Dude...it's pretty unanimous Microsoft can detect 'different' firmwares. The theory is along the lines of :- NXE had some 'self'destruct' code and was collecting firmware information and reported this back to Microsoft.

here's a quote from a guy who reckons he works in the XBL department :

we have found a way to read the firmware. the nxe update has allowed us to do a check on the current firmware installed on the dvd drive

the reason this was not flagged was because the code was not active. as you might have heard it was discussed about a ?self destruct? code embedded in the nxe update and even before that. this was that code it wasn?t a self destruct code but actually a check that was done on all drives

this check was begun when the update was to ?prepare for the last.fm facebook and twitter? this in fact was the code sent out to begin checks on ALL xboxs

these checks would send us information on the firmware written to the drive not the exact kind but we did a extensive form of hash check on the drive and could actually find out if it was modified in anyway

this was particularly easy on the lite-on as it was actually manufactured to serve for this purpose as our testing model

we will not ban all consoles at once and yes all information about you has been collected a long time ago

we have THOUSANDS of xboxs reporting bad checks meaning modified firmware. not all people will be banned and all the bans are done at randomn times

multiple checks have been done over this amount of time so we could asure the modified xboxs were truely modified and not just returning corrupt data

So i dunno but that sounds pretty reasonable

Plus there has been numerous reports of people buying a brand new 360 and flashing it and not playing a copied game (or one that they copied themselves) and getting banned in about 30 mins..

Microsoft finally :pught up :p

[Rudy]

Dude...it's pretty unanimous Microsoft can detect 'different' firmwares. The theory is along the lines of :- NXE had some 'self'destruct' code and was collecting firmware information and reported this back to Microsoft.

here's a quote from a guy who reckons he works in the XBL department :

So i dunno but that sounds pretty reasonable

Plus there has been numerous reports of people buying a brand new 360 and flashing it and not playing a copied game (or one that they copied themselves) and getting banned in about 30 mins..

Microsoft finally caught up :p

Sounds about right, that's what I was thinking they were doing. Personally the only thing I did on Live is play Uno lol no big loss for me