Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

[Mr. Gibs]

Don't want to tip ? And why is that ? Because... you're a cheapskate ? No ? Then give a real reason.

Also, who are you talking to "give them minimum wage..." ? Me ? Sorry I'm just a regular civilian with no power to increase anyone's pay. But I do what I can when I go to a bar/restaurant, I leave them a tip.

And what do you do (apparently) ? You're being a cheapskate with the excuse of "that's not my job".

They have a point though. It's pretty much the only job in the service industry that tipping is "required".

All the other jobs have to pay at least minimum wage.

[HawkMan]

No, we don't tip because it's not our job to pay them, we pay for the food we buy, the employer is the one who pays for his help.

I go out to buy food, and I expect the bill to cover the cost of food and service, and that service cost to be part of the food cost, not some abitrary unknown sum. When I fix a computer, they pay me for the job, I don't get tipped for it, I don't get tipped when peopel buy an expensive flat screen TV. b<nkers don't get tipped for giving out a loan.

Here's there are unions for waiters as there are for everyone else, they're protected by the same laws and rules, and they have the same wages, if not better than other service jobs.

As I said, it's not our job to pay for them because they can't stand up for themselves and get themselves the rights they deserve that other jobs have. Other crafts have fought for their rights, with blood tears, poverty and whatnot, and won through. I won't pay for them because they're not able to do this, but when they do finally stand up for themselves, Id' be willing to stand with them. but then again, as I said, over here, they've already done this, it's not an impossibility for waiters to stand up unionize and get proper pay and rights. In fact if they decide to do it, it would be surprisingly easy. other unions like to stand up with and for other groups who're being treated unfairly.

[ylcard]

There's a law in Israel that tips are not to be "treated" as wage, but as a "gift" from the customer, they have to be paid the minimum wage (which is ridiculous, 3,456 NIS, around 700$ ?).

It doesn't stop the employers abusing their staff, it's largely students that can't afford to get fired or strike or whatever, they have to study and earn money to pay for their intuition.

It doesn't even matter now, because we both agree that it should be "fixed" as they get screwed, the thing is - you can't admit that you're being a cheapskate, "not our job", so is it your "job" to pay for whatever it is you bought ? That's how you define a "job", or were you just trying to find the right word, like, "responsibility" ? Because I doubt anyone in this world has this "job" - paying people. So you're probably talking about "it's not our responsibility" - in that case, you're right, it's not yours, no one says it is.

All I say is that you're being cheap, like it or not.

Don't bring "not my job" again, it has nothing to do with anything I've said.

[FloatingFatMan]

Don't bring "not my job" again, it has nothing to do with anything I've said.

In the UK and several other western nations where English is the primary language, the phrase "Not my job" means "Not my responsibility"; it's called a colloquialism. Are you now saying people aren't allowed to use colloquialisms when posting on the Internet?

[S7un7]

Serving food is their BUSINESS. They serve (hopefully) good edible food to their customers in a timely manner. If they fail to do so, their business also fails. I wouldn't have my job (for long) if I came in a hour late and other people had to do my job. Same rules apply here. They failed to get the food out in a timely manner and put silverware on the table. That's a problem with the business.

They should have let it go. They'll get sued and lose money and business. No one is going to eat there for fear they will be arrested.

[Growled Member]

If the gratuity is part of the bill then I can see how the restaurant would be upset. I've eaten at a few places like that. I would rather decide how much gratuity I am willing to give. I will tip well for good service and very little for poor service.

[ylcard]

In the UK and several other western nations where English is the primary language, the phrase "Not my job" means "Not my responsibility"; it's called a colloquialism. Are you now saying people aren't allowed to use colloquialisms when posting on the Internet?

Nah, I have to apologize, that's just me being an ass - sorry.

But still, this still has nothing to do with what I have to say, people that don't pay at all even if the service they got was good - are just being cheap.

They can't pin it on "not my job", it's a lousy excuse. If I can admit that I'm an ass and apologized for being so, so can you - admit that you're just being cheap (not your personally, FFM - just anyone that fits the above sentence).

At the end of the day it's the waiters (and other jobs) that get screwed over by their employers AND by the rude customers.

I'm not defending the *******s that ignore you or deliver your meal so late that you're half asleep, or mix **** up, I'm defending those that work their asses off and do a good job and still have cheapskates like some of you here crying over 5$ tip.

You fully understand their position - you've stated clearly that you're NOT willing to help (you don't care, it's not your fight) so basically you're making a conscious choice of not helping them out with a tip that will help them make ends meet.

Bottom line, whoever does that, is a horrible man, and doesn't deserve to be served in a restaurant or a bar, you can buy your meal and go eat on the street.

[DrunkenMaster]

Now I understand the point for the servers - I know a few people who have worked as them. A family member was a chef in a high-end restaurant - lousy hours, 16 hour shifts and poor pay. It tends to be a problem with the industry. Now, I can certainly understand the problem for the owners - low margins, often not full places, limited hours to sell (some places can't open at 7:00 am and serve breakfast) and are also forced to close early by cities if the place sells alcohol.

My position is, its not my fault if the employer is too cheap to not pay the employees enough. Maybe there's too many restaurants in the area. I think imposing a 'tip' on the tab is not cool. Hide it in the food prices for all I care. I'm already paying more for my food since I'm eating in a restaurant.

Now the arrested patrons could have just said "Sorry not paying", but how do we know they weren't "FU I'm not paying" for 10 minutes. That might warrant calling the police.

The absolute worse was when a 3 friends and I went somewhere for supper. We collectively spend $300 - we ate alot. The food was good. Anyway, we pay in full and put our tips - I think it was 40 or 50 bucks under one of the glasses on the tabe. We didn't want to leave it in the open so someone could skim it.

The waiter actually walks out of the restaurant. Yells at us for not tipping. We explain - under the cup. He says thats rude and continues yell. It was a family business - so his boss is his dad. We'd paid debit and left cash on the table so they new I already paid. My friends knew what was next and they protested. I walked back in the restuarant, took the tip money off the table, told him to never do this again and we're never coming back and I left.

[Panacik]

In the UK the tip is included in the price.

Many people dont realise that you are within your right to ask the tip to be removed. Most people just pay it without realising.

In the US the tip is up to you to pay. I dont see how you can be forced to pay a tip even if the service was ****.

[Calum Veteran]

[...]

The waiter actually walks out of the restaurant. Yells at us for not tipping. We explain - under the cup. He says thats rude and continues yell. It was a family business - so his boss is his dad. We'd paid debit and left cash on the table so they new I already paid. My friends knew what was next and they protested. I walked back in the restuarant, took the tip money off the table, told him to never do this again and we're never coming back and I left.

I think you were completely right to do that. If the tip was not included in the meal and the choice is up to you, it is absolutely not right for the waiter to come out yelling at you. I cannot believe some restaurants work like that. They'd be much more successful with tips and custom if they didn't actually expect tips and just focussed on the food and service...

[S7un7]

One day after District Attorney John Morganelli announced he was recommending two college students who refused to pay a tip at the Lehigh Pub be cleared of criminal offenses, Bethlehem police have officially withdrawn the charges.

In a news release issued this morning, Bethlehem police say they are dropping the theft of services charge against Leslie Pope, 22, and John Wagner, 24. The two claimed they received horrible service Oct. 23 when they went to the restaurant with six other people.

As a result, they paid the bill, but refused to fork over a restaurant-imposed 18 percent gratuity. Police were called, and they were hauled off in a cruiser. Morganelli said Monday he felt the criminal charges were not warranted because gratuities are optional.

Police said this morning they are taking the advice of Morganelli, who said the case would not make it past the district court level.

Source

[Panacik]

Source

Well thank **** for common sense once in a while! :D

[Sir Topham Hatt]

Right, so here's the deal:

In the UK, tipping is not customary. I NEVER tip. My waiter gets paid a wage to work and wait on tables, so why should I pay them some more?

I don't pay the council more money for them re-surfacing the road and doing a good job about it.

If the restruants want their waiters and waitresses to get some more money, pay them a better wage, put the prices up of food to cover it, or don't do any of that.

I pay for the food I receive. . . it being brought to my table is the restruants responsibility. I don't mind going up to the chef and getting it myself if that's what it takes :p

In the UK the tip is included in the price.

Many people dont realise that you are within your right to ask the tip to be removed. Most people just pay it without realising.

Only in some restaurants. It should then be on the reciept. Frankie and Bennies for instance don't put tips on the bill - it's completely optional, like it should be.

[acnpt]

The way I see it, if you get bad service or food you shouldn't have to pay full price.

If a garage took 2 weeks to service your car, they gave you no information, and forgot a task(ie they forgot a drink in the pub), then you wouldn't want to pay full price.

Also if the restaurant was having such a busy day, why would they waste time calling police, and why would any police officer actually arrest them.

[MindTrickz]

Up until a year a go I did not know that one had to tip the pizza delievery guys. I was puzzled by this. A pizza cost $7 normally but when you order take out you are charged $3-4 delievery fee. That delievery fee goes to the delievery guys correct? Well if that is the case then why the hell should pay tip him? I'm already paying $3-4 to have it delievered.

[ylcard]

@MindTrickz

The extra money you're being charged is for gas and the delivery itself, it's not meant to be your "tip".

I don't think I've ever tipped a delivery guy, never seen it happen either, it's not common here as far as I know.

@acnpt

You're taking this way too far, there's a price on your food, like it or not, you pay it, if you want to pay "half" order something less expensive or go buy the ingredients yourself and make it in your kitchen.

No one is forcing you to eat out, or eat at a specific restaurant, so if you know or even think that this restaurant sucks, don't go there hoping to raise hell and get out with half-priced burger and no tip to the waiter - go to a normal restaurant where you know you'll get good service.

Same goes about your analogy, even though it's silly, if we take your analogy, it means that the food you ordered was late by 2 weeks, or say 1 week for the sake of argument, I doubt you'll pay ANYTHING.

@DrunkenMaster

That's a bad experience indeed, but I want to point out one thing you've said:

"its not my fault if the employer is too cheap to not pay the employees enough"

Where'd that come from ? How would you know that he's cheap ? You mean, just because he doesn't pay them well, he's being cheap ? Oh wait, you mean.. like some of you here ? That sounds so familiar.

You need to realize that the tip is for the waiter, not the owner, so it has little to do with your food, if anything, it has everything to do with the bloody service you received when you stepped in the restaurant.

Stop blaming bad service for not tipping to a good one, you are grown men, you know when someone deserves a tip and when not.

You've said it yourself, the job (managing a restaurant) sucks, but you know, someone has to do it.

You don't know if the restaurant makes a profit or not, so you can't assume that the manager can just increase the waiter's wage.

Hell, just take your job as an example, would your boss agree to a raise just like that ? Now imagine a market where a waiter can he hired in less than a day, barely any training needed (if any ?) and every each one of them doesn't want to lose their job, I don't know anyone that does..

[acnpt]

@Inclined - I didn't mean a week literally :laugh: Also there is a difference between not liking food, and it not being a decent quality.

Just to add, I've hardly ever not tipped in a restuarant or pub, as I've never had really bad service/food myself.Also where the **** did I say I go into restuarants intending only to pay half price? - I've never done that before.

In this case they felt that the service was so bad, that they were willing to get arrested(They must have been slightly mad).

They felt the waiter didn't give good service, so they didn't want to pay the tip, how is that being cheap?..........Now if the waiter did provide a good service, then yes it would be cheap.

Edited November 25, 2009 by acnpt

[ylcard]

@Inclined - I didn't mean a week literally :laugh: Also there is a difference between not liking food, and it not being a decent quality.

Just to add, I've hardly ever not tipped in a restuarant or pub, as I've never had really bad service/food myself.Also where the **** did I say I go into restuarants intending only to pay half price? - I've never done that before.

In this case they felt that the service was so bad, that they were willing to get arrested(They must have been slightly mad).

They felt the waiter didn't give good service, so they didn't want to pay the tip, how is that being cheap?..........Now if the waiter did provide a good service, then yes it would be cheap.

Yeah, that's my point - if the service is bad, don't pay a tip.

But if the food is "bad", the tip has nothing to do with it, as long as the service you got was good, you should still pay the tip.

Next time you should skip that restaurant because apparently the food was "bad", or if it's not prepared properly - ask them on the spot to replace the food, they WILL do it.

The only acceptable reason to not pay a tip is like you've said, bad service.

Well you actually meant 2 weeks, literally - for the garage to service your car, so I just replaced garage with restaurant and car with food. So the analogy isn't the best for this situation :)

If, say, it takes a waiter 2 hours, or 1 hour, to bring you your food, then the service is bad, hence no tip.

Overall we are in agreement :)

[Toon_Army_Fan]

As Im from the UK I cant really comment on any other country but over here we have a Law that says everyone who is legally working should get paid minimum wage. I worked in a clothes store called NEXT for minimum wage and When I spent 40 mins helping guys pick shoes and a shirt I did then go to the till and ask for a tip!

No one in the UK should ever feel like they should pay a tip. Most of the waiters in the resturants that I can now afford to go to will get paid a dam good wage. Why should I pay ?70 for a meal for two and then put ?7 pounds in for fun? And thats only 10% now Its sometimes 15%.

No other industry give people money for doing the job that they actually should do. When I enter a resurant I go there with the same attitude I do when I go to a clothes shop or ring my telephone company. I expect good service and paying for it has nothing to do with it. If a waiter comes over to my table and starts te be overly nice etc it just annoys me as i know he is looking for me to basiclly give him some money. I want a waiter to come over straight away take my drinks order and get it out to me in a suitable time without rushing me. I dont care for chat I just want the food and drinks that I am there to pay for.

And also the people who are saying we are cheap and we are paying for the waiter to come and bring me my food really need to look up the concept of a resurant! I go there because thats whats ment to happen! You arnt doing more than you should. YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB!

Alot of my friends are waiters and they think I wrong but if you look at it your paying extra moeny for NOTHING!

Edited November 26, 2009 by Toon_Army_Fan

[ylcard]

You pay a lot of money for basically "nothing", like we for example, we pay for private security to just stand at a checkpoint at the city entrance, they do nothing, just drink coffee and chat (there's always 2, sometimes there's an additional police officer if the 2 security personnel are females), it's not much but we pay for it.

We pay to Bezeq (the infastracture) for a phone line and the internet bandwidth, so if I want to have 50mb line, I have to pay them for it, and that's not the bad thing, I also have to have an ISP, Bezeq can do that too, but you have to fork out AGAIN, for the same connection, if you choose a different ISP, you have to pay even more.

So basically, I have to pay for nothing, but we all do it.

Just saying, it's not an excuse to feel like you're paying for nothing, not to mention that that extra money buys you even better service next time you visit, and well, helps the waiter out.

Ask your friends if they can afford to quit their job, I'm guarantee you that most, if not all, will say that they can't.

You know, people with degrees or professions don't go and waiter tables, so the waiters don't have a variety of jobs to choose from.

[Angelic Marge]

As Im from the UK I cant really comment on any other country but over here we have a Law that says everyone who is legally working should get paid minimum wage. I worked in a clothes store called NEXT for minimum wage and When I spent 40 mins helping guys pick shoes and a shirt I did then go to the till and ask for a tip!

I work 8 hours a day for crap wages looking after, feeding and changing nappies of other peoples children, I'll have to start asking for tips at the end of the day :laugh:

[Toon_Army_Fan]

But your missing my point. At what stage is it my problem that you cant afford to quit your job? And the example you gave did not give a reason why you pay for something then pay again for it when you get it! Your example just states a service you pay for that your not happy with! If you were happy with it would you be running up to them giving them money? I think not. I bet you wouldnt think twice that these men and women are doing a good job protecting you and wouldnt even consider give them money.

Your example of the phone company is completly different as well. I have to pay for a phone line, then for broadband for my internet and then if i actually want to use my line I have to pay for the calls i make! That is how it should be! You cant get it for free. Your complaining that you arnt getting a good deal not that you have to pay for something twice!

My friends cant afford to quit their job but again your missing the point. They dont need to because they get well paid. Im not saying if you dont like it then quit Im saying that you shouldnt get it full stop. And why should I "Help the waiter out" Does he come to my work and pay me extra and help me out. I have bills to pay and need my money so why should I then just give it away for no reason? No argument on her has given any reason for why we should throw our money at people who have full time jobs. If you get paid less than minimum wage then its your employers fault and the fact it continues is the people who tip. The employer rubs his/her hands all the way to the bank as the customer is paying for over priced food and also paying his/her staff to serve it to us.

Waiters need to realise that you have a job to do and just do it. Stop compaining about getting extra. And if you dont get paid minimum wage then Im very sorry for you but there is no reason that you cant look for another job in a clothes shop while still working. We are not saying just quit. Its a lazy excuse that waiters give when they cant be botherd to look for a new job.

The point is Its not the customers responsibility to pay your wage. You need to understand that and stop saying that we need to "Help the waiter out". You need to help your self and look for better paid jobs. And I will continue to say that we are paying for nothing because as yet no one has told me what im paying for. I got to a resturant to get food and i expect good service. I am not pay or rewarding good service. Im topping up your wage. Nothing else!

Lol Evil marge i meant did I not I did. I would have got sacked for that. lol

But that is another good example of a job you choose to do that I (no offence) Wouldnt like to do but you arnt looking for the parent to come in each day and get their baby and give you money for doing your job

[ylcard]

In the two examples I've given I have no choice but to pay, I can't just say "I'm unhappy with your services, you're fired", it's like paying for electricity, you HAVE to, unless you don't use it, I live here, hence I HAVE to pay. Sure I can tell Bezeq to suck it and live without Internet, but are you crazy ? We need the Internet nowadays, so we can't just give up on it. So we're stuck, paying to TWO firms for ONE line, 30 MBps line costs 400 p/m from Bezeq and another sum (around the same number) from an ISP company, I don't know how it goes down in Ireland, but it's a ripoff here, due to a monopoly Bezeq has, a bit OT :)

Again, it's a bit OT but the real people that protect us serve in the army, not in private security, I know because I've been around, they get paid A LOT to do very little and the army guys get paid like **** and do a lot. (around 350NIS a month, that's less than 100$, some get higher pay but they have a real chance of catching a bullet with their foreheads, 700NIS). Like I've said, OT.. You can't pay anything to the military, and the private security folks get so much money that they should be paying us, so really, I wouldn't even think about paying a tip to a private security guy.

You just don't get my examples, that's ok, re-read them a couple of times without trying to counter-argument every word I've said and you'll see that it makes much more sense, you're trying too hard.

Wow, I don't know if you're ignorant or just arrogant, you shouldn't expect anything from anyone, there's a price on everything nowadays, goods and services, they're separate.

Like with that silly example of a garage, you pay for the part and you pay for the service, you don't want the service ? Buy the part and install it yourself.

It's like that everywhere, there's a whole section in finance reports dedicated to staff and ONLY staff, the hours they work and the pay they get.

So the food you order in a restaurant are the goods, you want it served to you ? Fork out a tip - IF THE BLOODY SERVICE WAS ANY DECENT, I hope the caps made it clear that you shouldn't fork out money for "no reason".

So, is it still hard for you to understand WHY are you paying a tip ?

Oh yeah, we've been through all this "it's not my job...", I had a laugh at it, made some stupid comments about it, but eventually it has nothing to do with the subject, no one is asking you to pay them their wages, unless you consider n$ (n = the sum total of your "future" tips in one month) a wage, it's just a fraction of their wages, although it does accumulate to a decent number, as you can imagine no one has yet become a millionaire from servicing dishes !

All I'm asking you to do is show your appreciation and gratitude to the waiter that served you that night, and give him a tip, I'm not saying to give him 50$, or even 20$, just 5$ or even less.

Not giving anything with the excuse of "oh hell no it's not my job to pay you, go help yourself you slacker !!" just makes you look arrogant, and.. an ass.

Yeah before you post and say "I've never said X or Y", don't bother, it's a waste of our time, just say what's on your mind.

[Toon_Army_Fan]

Lol I didnt say Slacker once. I also do understand your arguments but I fail to understand how you are trying to use them to prove I should tip. Your saying you have to pay for these services but I dont HAVE to tip. There is a big difference. Plus I AM paying some of your wage if you need it to live on. You get paid a bad wage on the assumption that the general public will pay the rest. Hense I am topping up your wage. You still have not given me a reason why I am expected to pay a wage as well as for my food.

Your more intent on commenting on my argument skills than actually answering my questions. Your trying to fire some made up equations at me about one months wages. My argument has nothing to do with that it is completly based on you getting a job with a crap wage based on the public paying the rest. This is not me judging or making fun of you this is your argument! You know you get paid a bad wage.

As far as you calling me ignorant or just arrogant you shouldn't expect anything from anyone, there's a price on everything nowadays, goods and services, they're separate." ill ask you to consider the person who expects another person to top up his wage and gets angry when they dont want to. No where in the menu does it say that a steak will cost ?30 and it will also cost ?3 for it to be brought to you. If you want you can call into the kitchen and get it your self. Your honestly telling me you think that people who go to a resturant go in expecting to pay for the food and also pay on top of that for someone to bring it to them? Most take away resturants have prices for take away menus and more expensive prices for sit in menus. This is because they have staff to serve you!!!!! I dont then expect to have to pay for the service again with a tip. This is already included in the price.

I will totally accept that a waiter expects a tip and it is generally the thing to do. I have no problem with that but I get angry when they try and convince us its required and we have to do it. And saying that we have to pay for the food and then pay for the service is completly made up! Its not the law its just assumed this will happen.

Now if your going to respond to this do not make up things that I have said like you did when u said I called waiters slackers! dont write at the bottom of your post dont bother defending comments that you have said about me!

And trust me I always say whats on my mind. Hence this discussion!

[DDStriker]

Let me explain how this works.

I work at a restaurant as a server.

We servers get paid $4.19 an hour. We work for tips.

Most places have an auto grat of 15 - 19% on parties of 7 or more.

I understand not tipping if the service is horrible, but not tipping because we are already getting paid by the restaurant is utter BS as we basically work for free already.

unfortunately, those kinds of jobs are sometimes the only things available. Not everybody has alot of money or access to a high paying job.

Why should it become the consumers problem?

The tip is for the service, not the meal, so unless you brought your meal all the way from the kitchen and brought poured yourself the drinks and all of that - that's fine, but I guess you didn't, the waiter/ess did that for you.

They also make very little money for the hard work they do, at least here in Israel.

They do make some good money off tips, but no thanks to you.

What service do you expect to get ? Any service at all should be "rewarded" with a tip, the very least a dollar or so.

You're the one screwing their workforce, the restaurant won't pay them more just because they don't get enough tips.

"Mandatory" seems stupid, a tip shouldn't be forced on the customer, they have to do it willingly.

a portion of the money i spend on food goes to pay for their service if they are not getting enough then they will just have to suck it up and increase the cost of their food

If you don't want to fight for them, back off then, they don't need cheapskates like yourself to help make their lives even worse.

not wanting to pay a tip doesn't make you a cheapskate tips are a huge scam making people feel bad so they give more money (can be much more then what the service was worth)

i'd prefer a fixed amount so at the end of the day i'm not screwing my self over by being generous

its not fair for them to have such poor pay but its not fair for me to have to "employ" them...besides for the tips they want i can definitely get better service elsewhere :laugh:

If they get fired you eat at home, or eat off the floor in your favorite restaurant.

haha i can bring the table out myself thanks and can leave it there for other users i don't mind getting up and grabbing my food when its done its not hard at all

i wonder if i grab the food bring it to my table and take it back when i'm done would they pay me for my time? and can the restaurant tip me as well for doing such a good job? :laugh:

You're making things too complicated, they work hard, get **** for pay and basically LIVE off the tips.

How about just pay the damn 5 bucks and have a good clean conscience, no one is asking you to give them money they don't deserve.

You're asking us to give money they don't deserve

or they may deserve it but thats not for me to decide they should have managers who monitor their performance and set their pay accordingly its not my responsibility to rank the staff

come to think of it the waiters hardly do anything of value they grab food from chef bring to my table i make further purchases by requesting beverages and so forth the waiter doesn't improve my experience its all about the food the service comes into play when they stuff up my order and i have to get them to correct it and how they handle that is what counts if anything i'd prefer my tips goto the chef for the good quality food

Don't want to tip ? And why is that ? Because... you're a cheapskate ? No ? Then give a real reason.

Also, who are you talking to "give them minimum wage..." ? Me ? Sorry I'm just a regular civilian with no power to increase anyone's pay. But I do what I can when I go to a bar/restaurant, I leave them a tip.

And what do you do (apparently) ? You're being a cheapskate with the excuse of "that's not my job".

How exactly can they spit in your food if you're supposed to tip AFTER you finish your food ? Wow, a nice, inconsistent and ridiculous argument there.

Just admit it, people (like you I guess) don't tip because you're cheap, you don't care about their well being, you just care about your extra 1$-5$.

stop assuming everyone is cheap because we don't like being ripped off

if you've read the responses here people would just prefer that all this tipping nonsense was to be removed and instead increase costs on the meal so the waiters can be paid properly

sure i tip when i eat at restaurants because i feel it deserved but even when the food is crap i still sometimes tip because its like i've been guilted into doing so or don't feel like talking to them when they ask about it "Was something wrong?" the waiter gets offended even though they didn't even cook the food after all thats why i'm there

people that don't pay at all even if the service they got was good - are just being cheap.

Have paid for an expensive meal not paying a few dollars doesn't make one cheap stop using that its a very lousy excuse its the principal

They can't pin it on "not my job", it's a lousy excuse.

At the end of the day it's the waiters (and other jobs) that get screwed over by their employers AND by the rude customers.

Again stop trying to guilt people into tipping a customer is not rude because he/she didn't want to give a donation after buying food at a restaurant its reasonable to request it but its wrong to demand it and make people feel bad about not doing it

I'm defending those that work their asses off and do a good job and still have cheapskates like some of you here crying over 5$ tip.

are we still talking about the waiters here or something else? moving from point a to point b and taking food/drink requests from customers is not something i'd consider "working their ass off" and how hard is it to do a good job you can either do it or you can't

i'm not against giving tips you're wrong for calling everyone a cheapskate because they choose not to

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Bottom line, whoever does that, is a horrible man, and doesn't deserve to be served in a restaurant or a bar, you can buy your meal and go eat on the street.

doesn't deserve to be served in a restaurant? :laugh: we are paying for the food!

not sure where you're from (haven't read all the posts yet) but here getting take away is usually cheaper then eating in because they add the service crap onto our bill AND they want a tip so to hell with them and their greedy hands

when we have to pay $3 for a glass of watered down coke i can be pretty damn sure they are making enough money to pay their waiters here (for reference $3 could easily get me 2 litres of coke vs the mere 375ml(watered down) that we are served)

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Yeah, that's my point - if the service is bad, don't pay a tip.

But if the food is "bad", the tip has nothing to do with it, as long as the service you got was good, you should still pay the tip.

I can agree with the paying if the service is good but i can't agree with if the food is bad

if the food is bad i'd expect that good service to correct the food and make it good food if they fail then thats bad service

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"If, say, it takes a waiter 2 hours, or 1 hour, to bring you your food, then the service is bad, hence no tip."

why would that be the waiters fault? surely the 1-2 hours is spent cooking the food (or cooking other food until they can get to yours) does the chef ever see any of this tip money? what if multiple people wait on you

he he reminds me of that curb your enthusiasm episode :laugh:

sorry if this post came off as offensive i'm only sharing my point of view on this and its also 6 am....i should get some sleep