Cleaning Up The Community

[Vice]

Provided you don't get yourself in any further trouble, then you'll be fine. We're not going to go around and start imposing these new restrictions based on old warns. Earn yourself a further warn now, and you could end up finding yourself banned.

I know you were being general for everyone I just want to clarify that I myself am on 0% :p

[Subject Delta]

How can we make the warning system fairer? We post our community rules available for all to read. They're not difficult to follow. What we're saying here is that if you break those rules, then these are the consequences that you can expect.

When it comes to increasing stats, we're trying to improve the quality of our community. By restricting the few that DO cause problems, then it makes things far more pleasant for the majority, who will then hopefully spread the word and bring friends along for the ride.

We're not trying to be Nazi's here, we're trying to be fair, and go to a system where we're open about how we will moderate.

What I meant was that I see rules applied really unevenly, I have reported some posts that have been totally ignored (usually offending posts are removed or edited) yet I have been given warnings for similar things myself, I have also noticed that I once received a threat of a warning for posting to alert people (whom it was obvious where downloading the Windows 7 beta illegally) that the download contained a virus, as the moderator in question at the time (who has since retired) made the assumption that I had downloaded it myself, yet there where literally dozens of people who had admitted it in the thread about the leak, and it was pretty much totally overlooked.

I also believe that on here you get warned for things that on most other forums moderators wouldn't even blink their eyelids at, and I just don't see how restricting members and banning them for stupid things is going to increase the quality of the site, I can understand the need to remove real troublemakers, but I just don't see it as being necessary as the way I see it restricting people's accounts will just annoy them and they will leave. I wasn't trying to call you nazis as such, but I do believe that the moderation on here is still a bit heavy handed compared to what you see on a lot of other message boards.

[kinetix63 Veteran]

I'm just about to leave the office, but Frank Fontaine - I'll drop you a PM when I get back home in a while. I'd like to discuss this one further with you if I can, but we can do so privately rather than de-railing a thread!

[Subject Delta]

Ok, no worries :)

[SMELTN]

Finally getting the place cleaned up (Y) Awesome news

[Growled Member]

I personally am glad to see a return to the more applied moderation :)

Me too. Some topics have gotten out of hand lately.

[Jhaedee]

hmm interesting

[carmatic]

change it back to the way it was! its too strict! i've been banned once and i'll be banned again if this goes into effect!

/s

[Dr. Gonzo]

Finally getting the place cleaned up (Y) Awesome news

Right, because ban evasion is so difficult on forums. :rolleyes:

There's a guy on here right now, that is posting news and threads, and mods are openly joking about him being a person that was banned.

[the evn show]

How can we make the warning system fairer? We post our community rules available for all to read. They're not difficult to follow. What we're saying here is that if you break those rules, then these are the consequences that you can expect.

IMO the rules on copyright infringement and unlicensed software are unclear to the general public. Heck, I find them inconsistent and the only way I've been able to work out what's okay and what isn't was a private discussion with moderators.

Clarifying exactly what rules apply to copyright infringement would be a great idea. Your example of Windows 7 downloads, virus discussion, and warnings is a perfect example of how vague the rules are.

Consolidating the rules in a single easy-to-find place would be nice too.

Forum specific rules are usually stuck at the top of the form. The terms of service (when you create an account) aren't linked from anywhere else (unless you go through the sign-up process again), and the forum rules are in a third place. Then you have posts like this which clarify rules further but may not be seen by a normal member.

[Subject Delta]

Right, because ban evasion is so difficult on forums. :rolleyes:

There's a guy on here right now, that is posting news and threads, and mods are openly joking about him being a person that was banned.

Thing is, that is probably just that, a joke. If the staff knew that someone where a previously banned member, they would be banned again very quickly. To ban someone just because they are similar to a previous member would be grossly unfair, so I can assure you that I doubt that this is anything but a joke :p

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

IMO the rules on copyright infringement and unlicensed software are unclear to the general public. Heck, I find them inconsistent and the only way I've been able to work out what's okay and what isn't was a private discussion with moderators.

Clarifying exactly what rules apply to copyright infringement would be a great idea. Your example of Windows 7 downloads, virus discussion, and warnings is a perfect example of how vague the rules are.

Consolidating the rules in a single easy-to-find place would be nice too.

Forum specific rules are usually stuck at the top of the form. The terms of service (when you create an account) aren't linked from anywhere else (unless you go through the sign-up process again), and the forum rules are in a third place. Then you have posts like this which clarify rules further but may not be seen by a normal member.

This.

The mods are so inconsistent when it comes to the warnings over it. I've heard & talked to members who were genuinely trying to help someone with a software issue and found themselves with a warning over it. Even after they've tried to explain the situation. That's why you guys end up with the Nazi name and deservedly so in some cases.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

I'm glad the team are working towards improving the way they do things. It is a little inconsistent if I may say so myself.

[Lee G. Veteran]

This is a good move, in my opinion. I hope this will make the community even better.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I agree, I've not exactly been a role model in the GH at times and it's quite sad when I think back about it especially after spilling my guts in this topic and the fact that the people I've fought with I actually refer to as good "internet friends", one of them could and should almost be a real life friend.

I'm not trying to excuse my past behaviour with that topic above but I have generally struggled with things the past few years that have caused me to act irrationally and find outlets other than opening up to take out frustration/anger and everything else. Those are personal matters though, this is a tech board, I'm expected to and should keep the two separate.

Right now I'm sitting on a 100% warn and the amount of leeway I've been given is incredible, you members should know that not to be nosey but to know the mods do try their best not to ban people they can still see some worth in.

It's a terribly hard job, I do think things are inconsistent from time to time but all you need to do is talk to supervisors, there's a chain of command for a reason, it's not to demean the Gmods, it's to give them advice or a second opinion from someone who's maybe been around longer or has more experience, that's all. If you can't politely sort out what you think is a difference with a Gmod go to a Supevisor, ultimately if they agree with the Gmod suck it up, very rarely around here do you get warned for things that don't at least require a slap on the wrist. At the end of the day you're a visitor to this community, it's "their" community and "their" rules, tough luck if you don't agree with something that's specifically covered in the rules - No other way to put this really, we all just own a "license" to be part of Neowin, we break terms and we can lose that license. Just like your drivers license for example for driving ****ed 3 times in a row or something.

The Gamers Hangout while still being one of the largest sections of the board always has this past history of being quite hostile and hopefully that can change for 2010 (Y) The mods know we like to have jokes at each others expenses, but guys, they know us well enough to know when the jokes aren't really jokes, they're degrading the board and/or each other.

Here's to 2010, and FTR I am starting to get a lot better on my meds, which is good for you guys cause I've unfortunately (as you can see from warning), been someone stuck in the middle of a lot of moderating matters in the GH.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Audioboxer

[Veedems Veteran]

People calling the mods Nazis are pathetic and unable to control themselves. I was a mod for how long and went through a lot of crap from the same people who sat here and chastised me as being an ******* and Nazi and whatever other name they felt throwing my way. Honestly, besides the ridiculously vague copyright rules, every thing else is as clear as day.

It reminds me of the scene from "Liar, Liar" when Carey's character is having a break down and a former client calls about being arrested again and Carey just picks up the phone and yells "stop breaking the law, *******!'

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I agree with evn. - clarifications on some rules are needed. Take this thread as an example: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=861846

I know OSx86 discussion is allowed, but: Is linking to software which lets you install OS X in VMware (thus violating the Apple EULA) allowed? And this is just one example.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Thing is, that is probably just that, a joke. If the staff knew that someone where a previously banned member, they would be banned again very quickly. To ban someone just because they are similar to a previous member would be grossly unfair, so I can assure you that I doubt that this is anything but a joke :p

Look up Cy-kill.

[mad_onion]

To me a 100% warn should have always meant a ban. It seems kind of obvious to me... I'm very surprised to find that some well know members have 100% warn. I very much doubt these people will get the additional warn it would require to ban them though, not because they change their behaviour but I suspect the mods will simply become less willing to give out warns given that they now actually do something...

[Rappy Veteran]

I personally am glad to see a return to the more applied moderation :)

+1 I agree

[Dance.]

I completely back this (Y).

[carmatic]

This.

The mods are so inconsistent when it comes to the warnings over it. I've heard & talked to members who were genuinely trying to help someone with a software issue and found themselves with a warning over it. Even after they've tried to explain the situation. That's why you guys end up with the Nazi name and deservedly so in some cases.

maybe for things like copyright infringement, i think it needs some hard and fast rules... links to pirated material would be obvious, but i think it should stop at specific keywords which can be put in a search engine to bring up pirated stuff... let them get away with vague things, they arent useful for finding anything useful anyway

[Subject Delta]

Look up Cy-kill.

I am aware of who they are talking about, a lot of people think he is Comic Book Guy, but the fact is if the mods really thought that Cy-Kill was him, I am sure he would have been banned by now.

[Sethos]

I am aware of who they are talking about, a lot of people think he is Comic Book Guy, but the fact is if the mods really thought that Cy-Kill was him, I am sure he would have been banned by now.

Wait and see . . .

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

maybe for things like copyright infringement, i think it needs some hard and fast rules... links to pirated material would be obvious, but i think it should stop at specific keywords which can be put in a search engine to bring up pirated stuff... let them get away with vague things, they arent useful for finding anything useful anyway

Without going into detail or naming the member (because the person told me in confidence) they only helped someone with a codec issue they were having and they genuinely had no idea it was illegal to post it because it's included in so many codec packs and freely talked about any other time on Neowin. I mean, does someone deserve a warn/ban for mentioning a codec pack? No chance, but that's pretty much what this member was faced with. Just like you shouldn't be warned or banned for mentioning Blacksn0w.

Thank god Neowin removed the mod that warned him. One of the worst decisions the staff made "hiring" him.

Hazy on the details because it was quite a while ago. However I can think of many more examples from the GH where the mods warned someone over nothing. Especially with the history in that subsection - I've seen members get away with a lot worse. Even I've had a slap on the wrist over worse from DirtyLarry. So when you do hear of a warning being handed out over these situations it just shows the whole lack of communication / inconsistencies the staff have.