Cleaning Up The Community

[Dr. Gonzo]

You can complain about Frogboy all you want, but nothing's going to change. It's best just to ignore some things and pay attention to other aspects of the site that actually interest you.

And it's not like even commenting on it will get a response. What mod would, when they'd just get fired for saying anything anyways. =/

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

I got a warning once for calling a spammer an idiot. This was a few years ago now, but it was a bit silly. xD

The rules could do with a bit more neutrality. I mean I've seen some far worse insults being thrown around here without any mod action.

[Sethos]

I got a warning once for calling a spammer an idiot. This was a few years ago now, but it was a bit silly. xD

The rules could do with a bit more neutrality. I mean I've seen some far worse insults being thrown around here without any mod action.

Yeah, one minute it feels like a place where you can talk like an adult, say a few bad words and have some fun and the next it feels like a kindergarten where you get corrected every time you open your mouth. The inconsistency is annoying.

[Laurë Veteran]

Lets keep the thread on topic please, it wasn't created so that people could complain about staff or other forums. Anyone with grievances about a particular member of staff will do better to use the PM system to discuss it rather trying to bring it up in public.

[PricklyPoo]

Sounds good to me I guess... Don't understand why people complain, only time I've been warned was for posting a joke with swear words in the joke section. (Although that did seem somewhat dumb :blink: )

[Growled Member]

This is indeed true, and I do agree with it, but the only thing I'd like to point out is the length of time it takes for a warning level to drop is a considerable amount of time in relevance to how a person can change.

I think one thing that really ticks members off is there is no clear rules on when a warning might be lowered. I think a warning should be lower by not only a length of time but by a certain number of posts. If you have a warning and then made 500 posts without another warning being added (just for an example), it seems that would be enough posts (and time) in most cases to warrant a reduction in the warning.

[petrossa]

How can we make the warning system fairer? We post our community rules available for all to read. They're not difficult to follow. What we're saying here is that if you break those rules, then these are the consequences that you can expect.

When it comes to increasing stats, we're trying to improve the quality of our community. By restricting the few that DO cause problems, then it makes things far more pleasant for the majority, who will then hopefully spread the word and bring friends along for the ride.

We're not trying to be Nazi's here, we're trying to be fair, and go to a system where we're open about how we will moderate.

I personally find moderation extremely lenient compared to other public sites. The level of free speech allowed here is high and i've found that even when mod's don't personally care much for what you say that doesn't influence they manage to stay objective enough.

I've also found mods erring towards leniency rather than nazism (which btw is Socialism? :rofl: )

[James Riske]

I don't have a problem with any of the rules, my only complaint is the obvious favoritism, if you are going to warn me for calling someone a fanboy then also warn the other guy for calling me and idiot and a moron, this has happened 3 times and nothing happened to the other poster whatsoever.

I try to take it up in PM's but the mods who issued the warnings put me on block.

[Laurë Veteran]

Yeah, one minute it feels like a place where you can talk like an adult, say a few bad words and have some fun and the next it feels like a kindergarten where you get corrected every time you open your mouth. The inconsistency is annoying.

We do our best to be consistent and this thread is part of that; we do appreciate that it can be annoying. We also have a lot of discussion behind the scenes to ensure we agree upon the best way to do things. However, as a group of separate human beings spread across the world, living in different cultures, timezones etc, this is hard, we can't be a hive mind, we can't always discuss everything we do. Remember that if you don't like the actions of one member of staff you can always PM another to discuss it further.

Fred already spelled out how easy it is to stay within the rules and not get a warn:

Keeping a 0% warning level on Neowin is really not all that difficult:

1. Show some respect to the other members (even if you think they are completely loopy, chances are that other people can see it too without you spelling it out).

2. Don't make it look to other viewers that Neowin supports warez (we don't want that reputation).

When it comes to saying bad words and more adult topics etc, please bear in mind where you are posting. Some forums such as Members Metropolis are viewable to members only (so should be over 13s or those with parental consent/supervsion) so we can sometimes discuss slightly more mature topics there. However, most forums are viewable to anyone, member or not. This could include someone's 8 year old daughter (or maybe a 4 year old these days).

We want Neowin to be appealing to everyone, regardless of age, gender, background, beliefs as it is primarily a tech site, and anyone could use or be interested in tech. This is why we have a swear filter and have to be relatively child friendly; to keep the place clean and enjoyable.

You also need to think carefully about the joking around. What appears to be a joke to you could be highly offensive or considered downright bullying to others. Both members and mods will have different boundaries here as to what they consider acceptable or not; it's always best to err on the side of caution. I don't want to stifle humour by any means, it just takes care not to overstep the boundaries.

[Farstrider]

Finally getting the place cleaned up (Y) Awesome news

If I had a dime for every time I've heard or seen this comment on Neowin I would be pretty rich by now!

The only thing that will clean up this site is to place an age restriction and limit the number of users on the site. Start a system that you need an invitation to become a member and then give the new member a trial period and if he/she does not cut the mustard give them the boot! Also if people do not use their accounts close it, allow for parked accounts, that sort of thing!

I know that this will never happen but just a thought! I suppose the process of running a forum this size is a difficult one but there are always solutions to most issues and problems.

[Laurë Veteran]

I don't have a problem with any of the rules, my only complaint is the obvious favoritism, if you are going to warn me for calling someone a fanboy then also warn the other guy for calling me and idiot and a moron, this has happened 3 times and nothing happened to the other poster whatsoever.

I try to take it up in PM's but the mods who issued the warnings put me on block.

We keep warnings and such confidential. I could never tell another member about any warnings you may/may not have for example.

That other guy was most likely warned as well, but, we can't tell you so and you obviously can't see other people's warning bar. He/she may have been left thinking exactly the same thing as you.

This might seem odd but it helps keep the place a bit cleaner; we don't believe in airing our dirty laundry in public. It just wouldn't be fair or productive for there to be open discussion, say, about someone being banned who is not around to defend themselves, especially since it would detract from other things.

If you think a mod has genuinely missed a post that is outside the rules i.e. it hasn't been removed, please use the report button to let us know :)

[Colin-uk Veteran]

I think one thing that really ticks members off is there is no clear rules on when a warning might be lowered. I think a warning should be lower by not only a length of time but by a certain number of posts. If you have a warning and then made 500 posts without another warning being added (just for an example), it seems that would be enough posts (and time) in most cases to warrant a reduction in the warning.

There is a set time when warnings are reduced.

Warnings are reduced by 20% after 6 months of recieving the warning, unless in that time the member recieves another warning. it has always been this way ever since automatic warn reductions were introduced.

I don't have a problem with any of the rules, my only complaint is the obvious favoritism, if you are going to warn me for calling someone a fanboy then also warn the other guy for calling me and idiot and a moron, this has happened 3 times and nothing happened to the other poster whatsoever.

I try to take it up in PM's but the mods who issued the warnings put me on block.

Do you know for sure that the members in question didnt recieve warnings?

Also, its more likely that the staff member in question just didnt reply to your PM rather than blocking messages from you.

[Frogboy Administrators]

I have to admit when I first saw Frogboys comments it made me dislike stardocks involvement with Neowin even more. He doesn't understand why Neowin dislikes Stardock but he threatens members with bannings.

I don't have a lot of patience for trolling. That has always been the case.

I've been a part of Neowin since near its founding. I've probably banned, in all that time, maybe 5 or 6 people.

I totally understand why certain elements of Neowin;s user base don't like me and by association, Stardock. I wouldn't like me either if I were them.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

Good news (Y)

I hope that somebody comes up with a good way to clean up RWI, it's a shame to have to avoid an entire section because of a vocal core of rude regulars.

[Vice]

I wouldn't like me either if I were them.

:huh: I'm confused if you wouldn't like yourself if you were us then why not just alter the way you deal with the community?

[Dr. Gonzo]

:huh: I'm confused if you wouldn't like yourself if you were us then why not just alter the way you deal with the community?

He's saying he understands why some don't like him on here.

[Vice]

He's saying he understands why some don't like him on here.

Yes I get that, but if I was him and I understood why people disliked me I would work to fix it instead of being like 'Well that's just how things are!'

[+Mystic MVC]

Nice post (Y) and let's hope it makes this place even better :)

Wow, I hadn't check Neowin all morning and when I see this great post, it is already 7 pages long! Looked through the first page of responses by Sazz's reply really nailed it.

I hope this way more people will consider what they are actually typing before posting.

[mad_onion]

:huh: I'm confused if you wouldn't like yourself if you were us then why not just alter the way you deal with the community?

"certain elements" of neowin don't like him, not everyone so he's not going to change for a minority. see?

[Frogboy Administrators]

That is great when you are dealing with a business but Neowins only commodity is its community and if you treat it like your own personal farm people start leaving and the quality declines. Which appears to be what has happened as the viewings since 2007 have halved which would indicate the quality of the topics and posts have declined in quality and/or usefulness for the web fairing public who came here from search engines (indicated by Google Trends which shows declining click-through since 2007).

And yes he may be Admin and he may be able to 'do what he wants' but morally he is dealing with a community he doesn't own and he needs to understand that by making such statements people will just leave and then he will have nothing.

I've been an admin on this site for something like 4 or 5 years now and a moderator for years before that.

I participate in a lot of topics here on Neowin and elsewhere. I don't have problems with users unless they start to get insult me. I have been known to insult back (which I freely admit I shouldn't).

I know a lot of people who have left Neowin over the past couple of years who did so because they found the behavior in the community here to be abusive, juvenile and toxic.

In my experience, people who get banned always say "You banned me because I didn't agree with your views" in which apparently means objecting to someone calling you a "douche" or what have you is somehow their idea of some sort of reasoned discussion.

[Laurë Veteran]

Yes I get that, but if I was him and I understood why people disliked me I would work to fix it instead of being like 'Well thats just how things are!'

Well I understand why some people might dislike me, but, I don't like them either so I wouldn't change for them.

[PixilEyes]

This means I haz moderator now?

[mad_onion]

This means I haz moderator now?

lol, that lightened the mood :)

[DrCheese]

I agree with evn. - clarifications on some rules are needed. Take this thread as an example: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=861846

I know OSx86 discussion is allowed, but: Is linking to software which lets you install OS X in VMware (thus violating the Apple EULA) allowed? And this is just one example.

er that should really be fine, all he is linking is a .vmx file which is basically a preconfigured VMware configuation file. Vmware has a lot of hidden settings that make OSX run a ton faster, eg it does unoffically support OSX but of course they could never allow users to select that themselves in the default program. You still need to buy a retail OSX DVD to install this.

Now if he'd linked to a modified OSX install disk, then yes that would be illegal.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Yes I get that, but if I was him and I understood why people disliked me I would work to fix it instead of being like 'Well that's just how things are!'

I don't see it as an issue to be fixed.

People should be able to create discussion topics without some guy coming on and insulting them. If you can't disagree with someone without getting insulting, then it's probably better not to participate in the discussion.

Personally, I would consider it a big win if every user on this site who thought the guy who got banned shouldn't have gotten banned would leave. It would save us a lot of effort.