Cleaning Up The Community

[Vice]

Just sayin' Vice ;)

This is what I'm getting at with the uneven moderation. I have read so many times where you guys outright refuse to discuss any punishments given to other members. But you feel free to break that rule here as I've got on your bad side in this thread.

But I know the answer to this will be 'I'm the owner'. Which is the same comment Frogboy gives when he threatens to ban users. I won't reply again because I don't wanna get banned.

[Colin-uk Veteran]

Again, I appreciate that totally, but in my example I CLEARLY pointed out to the staff member that other people where behaving in a similar manner, and I was met with an extremely arrogant response. I appreciate that all humans make mistakes, but I sometimes get the impression that around here not all of your staff are big enough to admit that.

that probably means the staff member had a different opinion to you and didnt think the posts were similar.

[toadeater]

Neowin's forums are in decline because of Facebook, Digg, Deviantart and the dozens of tech sites out there now. So I'm not sure if heavier moderation is going to help.

On the one hand, people want complete freedom, but on the other hand the juvenile crowd that make up most of Neowin's audience now isn't very good for the forums because it hinders meaningful discussion. Neowin needs to get back to being more of a tech site, and a DIY site (like Lifehacker).

Maybe Neowin should add some kind of Reputation Points system where members can give points to other members for helping them or because they post good articles.

[Steven P. Administrators]

Problem is though, for whatever reason, unbalanced moderation will take place because we take into account who is breaking the rules and the extent of trouble it does/doesn't cause.

I didn't go into specifics, so I don't believe I broke my own rule. But it seems I'm not getting my message across to you, when I and others have tried to do that!

Neowin's forums are in decline because of Facebook, Digg, Deviantart and the dozens of tech sites out there now. So I'm not sure if heavier moderation is going to help.

On the one hand, people want complete freedom, but on the other hand the juvenile crowd that make up most of Neowin's audience now isn't very good for the forums because it hinders meaningful discussion. Neowin needs to get back to being more of a tech site, and a DIY site (like Lifehacker).

Maybe Neowin should add some kind of Reputation Points system where members can give points to other members for helping them or because they post good articles.

Yeah I agree with all of your points, a rep system will be included with the IPB3 update, which will be quite soon!

[Q.Q]

The decline could be cause of new tech toys like Twitter. I enjoy reading a tech forum from time to time but overall it's tedious to find the information I might be attempting to read up on.

Q.Q

[Colin-uk Veteran]

Moderation will always feel "unbalanced" if we factor in leniency, add in the fact that members dont know when other members have orr havent been warned for seemingly the same offence and, yeah, thats probably why :p

[Elliot B.]

Problem is though, for whatever reason, unbalanced moderation will take place because we take into account who is breaking the rules and the extent of trouble it does/doesn't cause.

I didn't go into specifics, so I don't believe I broke my own rule. But it seems I'm not getting my message across to you, when I and others have tried to do that!

Yeah I agree with all of your points, a rep system will be included with the IPB3 update, which will be quite soon!

How soon is soon? Days? Weeks? A month or two?

[Subject Delta]

Your opinion is noted but you're still a guest here. The house rules are almost as old as this site and to be frank, the only people who have "issues" with the rules are the people who keep breaking them.

The moderation process works just fine and what you want (the example kinetix gave) wouldn't work here.

If you expel all your guests, your house would become boring pretty quickly. All you are going to achieve by being heavy handed is alienating more users, if you think it is the answer to your declining stats, I feel you are just searching for answers that frankly just aren't there.

This thread and the answers given in it frankly just re-iterate the view that you guys are just ignoring any criticism, justified or otherwise and following the attitude of "if you don't like it **** off". To me, that is what is causing the decline in numbers.

[petrossa]

Yeah I agree with all of your points, a rep system will be included with the IPB3 update, which will be quite soon!

:wacko: ?Can one have an opt-out? It seems my intelligent, eloquent dry wit is not much appreciated, and it makes me sad seeing how i will get repped down. I am a sensitive guy? :cry:

[Steven P. Administrators]

Negative votes won't be allowed ;) Our staff are good at negative voting members already :)

[Colin-uk Veteran]

:shifty:

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

Negative votes won't be allowed ;) Our staff are good at negative voting members already :)

Sometimes in forums that have this feature you see people advertising in their sigs something like 'rep me nile rep u!!!!1! lolzerX~'

Or you find people who get a negative rep taking vengeance upon the negative repper.

If the 'star' system on people's profiles is anything to go by, the rep system may not always measure what it's meant to measure. I gather, however, that the rep system won't be anonymous, so that should help.

Anyway, I definitely support a rep system here, as the benefits would outweigh the drawbacks. (Y)

LOL actually I should check this feature out! I missed it on Atlas when I was looking around there.

Edited January 7, 2010 by James7

[Coldgunner]

So long as a member can only give 1 rep point to another member it would work fine.

[That Guy Veteran]

I like the idea of a "rep-system" with only positive votes. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all :)

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I dunno about that. I've made lots of suggestions as have others. And the only replies I see are 'Well that is not possible because x y z' or 'No the way we do it is x y z' or 'You can accomplish that by doing 5 more steps than what you suggested'.

Instead of 'thats a good idea, we will look in to it' all we get is PR speak 99% of the time.

In my opinion, instead of doing damage control all the time you should just admit your failings and fix them.

On the subject of "uneven" moderation and specifically the suggestion to use two moderators to achieve consensus before issuing a warning:

I read this idea earlier in this thread and didn't respond to it because I didn't think you guys would like what I had to say about it.

From a member perspective, I can see why this would be the perfect solution.

From a staff perspective, I don't think we should even try it. For one thing, it would making everything into a bureaucratic nightmare. I don't think you guys know the volume of moderator-only threads or the number of staff-only forums. A variety of topics are discussed in private from your reported posts, to concerns about specific members, to suggestions made by members to moderation/rule clarifications. Some warnings are already discussed after the fact so we wouldn't be talking about a doubling of warning threads but it would make such a logistical nightmare that we'd need to have a full time staffer just to make sure that discussions reach a resolution.

The system we have right now has all the ingredients to work fairly but there is one group that could be blamed for not making it work properly. If a warning was issued incorrectly and then removed by a Supervisor then there really is no lasting damage to member so long as the staff were polite during the process. These examples can lead to a greater understanding of the rules from newer staff members and it can provide feedback to the Supervisors as to whether or not everyone is one the same page without any staffers going rogue. It can provide powerful management feedback if problems exist in the rules or if problems exist with the staff. So where is the problem that prevents it from working correctly? We Supervisors need the members to inform us when something goes wrong so that we can look into the situation and hopefully find a solution that will improve Neowin as a whole.

In terms of moderation, remember that a single moderator can easily moderate a small site by himself (or herself) but things get exponentially more complicated as you need to integrate multiple personalities.

Now I realize that this is just another 'Well that is not possible because x y z' answer but the thought that things would get more complicated isn't really all that appealing to me and I don't think it would be good for the site unless Neobond has the cash to hire a full time customer service manager (don't get your hopes up :D ). Anyway, I didn't answer yesterday because I didn't think you'd like the answer.

[xtrabit racing]

thank you! i still could not find any mod to explain my situation

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

I like the idea of a "rep-system" with only positive votes. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all :)

How about using a Thanks System. If someone helps you in any way click on a Button that says thanks. The number of thanks can be displayed under the members name with the number of said members given thanks. I only see Rep points on Forums that are not as large and as legitimate as Neowin.

[Lilrich]

I think a thanks system would be better also.

[That Guy Veteran]

How about using a Thanks System. If someone helps you in any way click on a Button that says thanks. The number of thanks can be displayed under the members name with the number of said members given thanks. I only see Rep points on Forums that are not as large and as legitimate as Neowin.

Yeah that would also be nice :) it's more the idea that I liked, they can call it whatever they like as long as it has the same meaning :p

[Growled Member]

I think the staff does any excellent job here. I believe the problem is not that they're necessarily heavy handed, but because of lack of communication it sometimes seems as if they are heavy handed. I know it's asking a lot considering the amount of moderating they have to do, but sometimes a simple and polite PM or post can smooth a lot of ruffle feathers.

[IceDogg]

I agree with the thanks system. This would be much better in my opinion. Maybe not even display it to the public, just to the person it was given too. That way people get their thanks, but it doesn't become a contest. I've seen this on at least one forum and think it's a great solution to the whole popularity contest it can turn into. No one sees the thanks/thumbs up but me.. or maybe mods but not general public.

[Jimmy0]

I agree with the thanks system. This would be much better in my opinion. Maybe not even display it to the public, just to the person it was given too. That way people get their thanks, but it doesn't become a contest. I've seen this on at least one forum and think it's a great solution to the whole popularity contest it can turn into. No one sees the thanks/thumbs up but me.. or maybe mods but not general public.

What's the point in having a thanks system if no one else can see how 'helpful' you are?

[IceDogg]

What's the point in having a thanks system if no one else can see how 'helpful' you are?

It's not about seeing how helpful you are, it's about saying a thanks for the help. But each to their own. It's just an idea. Would solve the look at my status you WILL get if this goes into use. But it won't bother me either way.

And even if not keeping it private, I think more people will be willing to give a thanks then give a + to someone's status, but that's just me. Still like the thanks better then + rating, be it private or public.

[petrossa]

How about using a Thanks System. If someone helps you in any way click on a Button that says thanks. The number of thanks can be displayed under the members name with the number of said members given thanks. I only see Rep points on Forums that are not as large and as legitimate as Neowin.

How about the right to a paypal donate button since we're at it? Since it seems i must by stimulated to display proper social behavior by a system of rewards rather than my own integrity, at least make the positive feedback worth my while.?

And if i don't like the person who gave my a rep can i undo it? Or i've been on good terms with someone but now i hate his guts and i want my reps back?

Questions, questions. The mind wonders.

[Subject Delta]

I like the idea of the IPB rep system if you guys can successfully tweak it to only allow positive ratings, I do feel that a lot of people are likely to vote each other down for the sake of it, but I like the idea of rep systems as they generally give you a good barometer as to who you can trust