This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order


Recommended Posts

Thats reselling.

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

People buy Macs for prestige and nothing else really.

No, not really. I prefer using Mac OS X (as a Ruby on Rails developer, it's definitely the platform of choice) and I can't be bothered trying to **** around with a Hackintosh. In the time it would take me to get a Hackintosh up and running, I could've made the money I need to buy a Mac.

Plus, on my MacBook Pro, having a 7 hour battery life (and that's actually quite realistic) doesn't hurt. ;)

Drivers and firmware.

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

But if you don't use say 3dmax, Autocad, Maya, Solid Works, etc, there is barely a performance difference.

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

Those who need desktop-workstation performance on-the-go. Ideal for performance-demanding users such as creative professionals, engineers, defense or research.

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

LOL Actually, my boss did buy his father one (who still worked with him) simply for that reason. He purchased all of us (when they came out) the dual xenon based precisions (Think the cousin of the T7500) . Each with 6GB of ram for virtualization development. Eventually, he switched to the mac pros, as he didn't like vista. (Before windows 7) and 64 bit xp just sucked. We tried Suse, but vmware wasn't stable enough on linux yet, at least with the driver support of the Dell boards used.

Oh, and by the way, those are almost an exact replica of the mac pros (same price too) I tried to put osx86 on one, but it had the unsupported intel gigabit chipset and crashed it every time.

Macs are very expensive. But I really do love using them. It is difficult to get a notebook that matches my MacBook Pro 17" that is why I have two of them from Apple. Show me a computer as thin and light as a 17" MacBook Pro with the same quality screen, aluminum enclosure, the awesome and very plentiful Multitouch Trackpad with 8 hours of battery life.

It ain't easy. And I know because I looked for _months_ I looked at Dells, Alienwares, Hewlett Packards, Lenovos, Acers and so on. I could simply not find a notebook that compared feature wise to what the MacBook Pro offered. The Mac was more expensive than all the other offerings (except the Alienware units) but I feel the extra cost was warranted to get the exact specifications I wanted. I also just want to say that had the MacBook Pro lacked the Express Card slot I would never have got it. That for me would be a deal breaker but Apple kept that in the 17" Model which is the screen size I wanted regardless.

I really couldn't give a **** what logo is on my computers. My Dell monitors have a large Dell logo on them. My tower is a self-build and has a Lian Li logo on it. I would have gladly bought a Dell if it matched my MacBook Pro. I mention this because a few people in here have asserted that Mac owners only get them for status or some type of prestige. That is generalising and something that I don't buy a computer for. I get a computer because it feels my needs.

Also I think the Mac Mini and Mac Pro are awful computers. The Mac Mini has very very limited upgrades available and is priced to high for what it offers (there is no groundbreaking features in that computer it is just a box with a slot drive that every manufacturer can and does compete with) and similarly the Mac Pro has very little upgrade options and does not offer anything groundbreaking. The Lenovo D20 workstation mops the floor with the Mac Pro technologically and on pricing. I'd gladly take that D20 over a Mac Pro any day. OS X or not. But again this is what I need/want and this is different for everybody.

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

In Blizzard v. Glider basically Glider was an application that cheaters of World of Warcraft could use to automate gameplay. The program would play their character for them on a set course killing monsters in the game to make the cheater rich. This was against the Blizzard EULA which meant cheaters who used it could be banned from the service.

However no one expected the EULA to hold up in court and Blizzard successfully argued that it was unlawful for Glider to operate and thus Glider was shutdown by court order.

This obviously sets a precedent as did the Apple v. Prystar outcome.

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

image1gp.jpg

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

I think about the closest comparison would be HP's Envy series (some people still say that the build quality isn't that great) or the Thinkpad series laptops with the sturdy roll cages.

In regards to the Acer listed on the front page:

1) 3.5 Hours of advertised battery life. The 17" MBP advertises 8-9 and the 13" adverises 10.

2) 17.3" screen at 1600x900. The 17" MBP has a resolution of 1920x1200

3) 7.05 lbs. The 17" MBP weighs 6.6lbs.

The MBP is also thinner and I'm sure has a much better build quality.

I'm always surprised at how many people on this board endlessly bash Apple for selling computers with higher build quality, more expensive materials, larger batteries and higher power efficiency.

A few forums over and you will find a thread where people are discussing whether to buy a $300 case or a $400 case for their next rig, and which water cooling system to buy because they want to keep their cooling budget under $400.

;)

tell me about it, i went into BMW to get a new three series, when i told them i was going to pay the same price as a same engined toyota they laughed. It's outrages and simply out of order, i want my new 3 series for the same price as a toyota.

The prices have always been higher than there pc counterparts, as the cost include Mac OSX and iLife, yes you can scrub the cost of OSX as all laptops come with an OS, however you have to pay a little more to use OSX. Next you have the case design, backlit keyboard, multitouch trackpad, battery life etc.

At the end of the day this is one of the reasons why commercial industries work, as people vote with their wallets. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

  • Like 2

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

I one-upped this. (Y) Thank you.

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

  • Like 3

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

Here's the whopper: why in holy hell do you all even care?

Like people have been pointing out: I can drive a Toyota. I can drive an Audi. Both can take me places. Hell, the Toyota might even have more bells and whistles, but I prefer driving the Audi, even if it's more expensive. I don't see you all going "This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order."

In that case, you are still not paying for the components. You are paying for the engineering. No different than lower-powered Mercedes Benz being priced higher than a top of the line Hyundai. Both have an engine, a steering wheel, four wheels. The latter might even have more bells and whistles. But you don't question why the Benz is more expensive.

You also don't question that the Hyundai is a smarter buy. Plus it comes free of that arrogant attitude that is built into the Benz.

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

image1gp.jpg

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

25% VAT

5 or 6 year production fault "warranty" on laptops and computers, and here 2.5 years warranty on batteries. mandatory.

But the other ones are more expensive over here to, and Apple is still far more expensive for what you get in return. And that's without me counting having to buy a decent OS :p

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

  • Like 3

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

If only we knew about people who are not like that...

oh, wait...

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

Ya, because me using logic in purchasing an item makes me not smart, but those who just blindly say they get quality for paying more are the better.

When apple uses the exact same hardware, just a different casing, it does not constitute "better" in any way other than pretty.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Again, this is an irrelevant attempt to attack the messenger. The truth does not require any justification.
    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Conversation Starter
      jessse3334 earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • Reacting Well
      JuvenileDelinquent earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • One Month Later
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Excellence2025 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      506
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      196
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      153
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      72
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      65
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!