This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order

[the evn show]

Thats reselling.

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

[Elliott]

People buy Macs for prestige and nothing else really.

No, not really. I prefer using Mac OS X (as a Ruby on Rails developer, it's definitely the platform of choice) and I can't be bothered trying to **** around with a Hackintosh. In the time it would take me to get a Hackintosh up and running, I could've made the money I need to buy a Mac.

Plus, on my MacBook Pro, having a 7 hour battery life (and that's actually quite realistic) doesn't hurt. ;)

[Mr. Gibs]

Drivers and firmware.

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

But if you don't use say 3dmax, Autocad, Maya, Solid Works, etc, there is barely a performance difference.

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

Those who need desktop-workstation performance on-the-go. Ideal for performance-demanding users such as creative professionals, engineers, defense or research.

[SaltLife]

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

LOL Actually, my boss did buy his father one (who still worked with him) simply for that reason. He purchased all of us (when they came out) the dual xenon based precisions (Think the cousin of the T7500) . Each with 6GB of ram for virtualization development. Eventually, he switched to the mac pros, as he didn't like vista. (Before windows 7) and 64 bit xp just sucked. We tried Suse, but vmware wasn't stable enough on linux yet, at least with the driver support of the Dell boards used.

Oh, and by the way, those are almost an exact replica of the mac pros (same price too) I tried to put osx86 on one, but it had the unsupported intel gigabit chipset and crashed it every time.

[Alladaskill17]

LoL OP must be new to the internetz if the prices Apple has are surprising ;)

[e-berlin.org]

As much as I like Apple, I think these prices are absolutely outrageous for the hardware you are getting.

It's called quality.

Others, others...

[Vice]

Macs are very expensive. But I really do love using them. It is difficult to get a notebook that matches my MacBook Pro 17" that is why I have two of them from Apple. Show me a computer as thin and light as a 17" MacBook Pro with the same quality screen, aluminum enclosure, the awesome and very plentiful Multitouch Trackpad with 8 hours of battery life.

It ain't easy. And I know because I looked for _months_ I looked at Dells, Alienwares, Hewlett Packards, Lenovos, Acers and so on. I could simply not find a notebook that compared feature wise to what the MacBook Pro offered. The Mac was more expensive than all the other offerings (except the Alienware units) but I feel the extra cost was warranted to get the exact specifications I wanted. I also just want to say that had the MacBook Pro lacked the Express Card slot I would never have got it. That for me would be a deal breaker but Apple kept that in the 17" Model which is the screen size I wanted regardless.

I really couldn't give a **** what logo is on my computers. My Dell monitors have a large Dell logo on them. My tower is a self-build and has a Lian Li logo on it. I would have gladly bought a Dell if it matched my MacBook Pro. I mention this because a few people in here have asserted that Mac owners only get them for status or some type of prestige. That is generalising and something that I don't buy a computer for. I get a computer because it feels my needs.

Also I think the Mac Mini and Mac Pro are awful computers. The Mac Mini has very very limited upgrades available and is priced to high for what it offers (there is no groundbreaking features in that computer it is just a box with a slot drive that every manufacturer can and does compete with) and similarly the Mac Pro has very little upgrade options and does not offer anything groundbreaking. The Lenovo D20 workstation mops the floor with the Mac Pro technologically and on pricing. I'd gladly take that D20 over a Mac Pro any day. OS X or not. But again this is what I need/want and this is different for everybody.

[Richard Hammond]

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

[Vice]

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

In Blizzard v. Glider basically Glider was an application that cheaters of World of Warcraft could use to automate gameplay. The program would play their character for them on a set course killing monsters in the game to make the cheater rich. This was against the Blizzard EULA which meant cheaters who used it could be banned from the service.

However no one expected the EULA to hold up in court and Blizzard successfully argued that it was unlawful for Glider to operate and thus Glider was shutdown by court order.

This obviously sets a precedent as did the Apple v. Prystar outcome.

[itzwolf]

I agree with the OP it definitely is pricey...

[protocol7]

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

[Stetson]

I think about the closest comparison would be HP's Envy series (some people still say that the build quality isn't that great) or the Thinkpad series laptops with the sturdy roll cages.

In regards to the Acer listed on the front page:

1) 3.5 Hours of advertised battery life. The 17" MBP advertises 8-9 and the 13" adverises 10.

2) 17.3" screen at 1600x900. The 17" MBP has a resolution of 1920x1200

3) 7.05 lbs. The 17" MBP weighs 6.6lbs.

The MBP is also thinner and I'm sure has a much better build quality.

I'm always surprised at how many people on this board endlessly bash Apple for selling computers with higher build quality, more expensive materials, larger batteries and higher power efficiency.

A few forums over and you will find a thread where people are discussing whether to buy a $300 case or a $400 case for their next rig, and which water cooling system to buy because they want to keep their cooling budget under $400.

;)

[REM2000]

tell me about it, i went into BMW to get a new three series, when i told them i was going to pay the same price as a same engined toyota they laughed. It's outrages and simply out of order, i want my new 3 series for the same price as a toyota.

The prices have always been higher than there pc counterparts, as the cost include Mac OSX and iLife, yes you can scrub the cost of OSX as all laptops come with an OS, however you have to pay a little more to use OSX. Next you have the case design, backlit keyboard, multitouch trackpad, battery life etc.

At the end of the day this is one of the reasons why commercial industries work, as people vote with their wallets. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

[sanctified Veteran]

You should claim for a refund... oh wait, you are yet to buy one. Yay!

[bdsams Veteran]

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

[sanctified Veteran]

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

[Elliott]

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

I one-upped this. (Y) Thank you.

[shakey]

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

[Elliott]

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

Here's the whopper: why in holy hell do you all even care?

Like people have been pointing out: I can drive a Toyota. I can drive an Audi. Both can take me places. Hell, the Toyota might even have more bells and whistles, but I prefer driving the Audi, even if it's more expensive. I don't see you all going "This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order."

[C_Guy]

In that case, you are still not paying for the components. You are paying for the engineering. No different than lower-powered Mercedes Benz being priced higher than a top of the line Hyundai. Both have an engine, a steering wheel, four wheels. The latter might even have more bells and whistles. But you don't question why the Benz is more expensive.

You also don't question that the Hyundai is a smarter buy. Plus it comes free of that arrogant attitude that is built into the Benz.

[HawkMan]

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

25% VAT

5 or 6 year production fault "warranty" on laptops and computers, and here 2.5 years warranty on batteries. mandatory.

But the other ones are more expensive over here to, and Apple is still far more expensive for what you get in return. And that's without me counting having to buy a decent OS :p

[sanctified Veteran]

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

[HawkMan]

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

[sanctified Veteran]

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

If only we knew about people who are not like that...

oh, wait...

[shakey]

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

Ya, because me using logic in purchasing an item makes me not smart, but those who just blindly say they get quality for paying more are the better.

When apple uses the exact same hardware, just a different casing, it does not constitute "better" in any way other than pretty.