This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order


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Thats reselling.

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

People buy Macs for prestige and nothing else really.

No, not really. I prefer using Mac OS X (as a Ruby on Rails developer, it's definitely the platform of choice) and I can't be bothered trying to **** around with a Hackintosh. In the time it would take me to get a Hackintosh up and running, I could've made the money I need to buy a Mac.

Plus, on my MacBook Pro, having a 7 hour battery life (and that's actually quite realistic) doesn't hurt. ;)

Drivers and firmware.

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

But if you don't use say 3dmax, Autocad, Maya, Solid Works, etc, there is barely a performance difference.

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

Those who need desktop-workstation performance on-the-go. Ideal for performance-demanding users such as creative professionals, engineers, defense or research.

Wrong. nVidia realized what people were doing a long time ago and blocked this from happening, you can't just mod your drivers and firmware and get a Quadro anymore (unless something has changed recently).

Nobody buys a Dell Precision for web browsing. Theres a reason why it comes with a quadro, and theres also a reason why its an enterprise class solution.

To quote directly from dell:

LOL Actually, my boss did buy his father one (who still worked with him) simply for that reason. He purchased all of us (when they came out) the dual xenon based precisions (Think the cousin of the T7500) . Each with 6GB of ram for virtualization development. Eventually, he switched to the mac pros, as he didn't like vista. (Before windows 7) and 64 bit xp just sucked. We tried Suse, but vmware wasn't stable enough on linux yet, at least with the driver support of the Dell boards used.

Oh, and by the way, those are almost an exact replica of the mac pros (same price too) I tried to put osx86 on one, but it had the unsupported intel gigabit chipset and crashed it every time.

Macs are very expensive. But I really do love using them. It is difficult to get a notebook that matches my MacBook Pro 17" that is why I have two of them from Apple. Show me a computer as thin and light as a 17" MacBook Pro with the same quality screen, aluminum enclosure, the awesome and very plentiful Multitouch Trackpad with 8 hours of battery life.

It ain't easy. And I know because I looked for _months_ I looked at Dells, Alienwares, Hewlett Packards, Lenovos, Acers and so on. I could simply not find a notebook that compared feature wise to what the MacBook Pro offered. The Mac was more expensive than all the other offerings (except the Alienware units) but I feel the extra cost was warranted to get the exact specifications I wanted. I also just want to say that had the MacBook Pro lacked the Express Card slot I would never have got it. That for me would be a deal breaker but Apple kept that in the 17" Model which is the screen size I wanted regardless.

I really couldn't give a **** what logo is on my computers. My Dell monitors have a large Dell logo on them. My tower is a self-build and has a Lian Li logo on it. I would have gladly bought a Dell if it matched my MacBook Pro. I mention this because a few people in here have asserted that Mac owners only get them for status or some type of prestige. That is generalising and something that I don't buy a computer for. I get a computer because it feels my needs.

Also I think the Mac Mini and Mac Pro are awful computers. The Mac Mini has very very limited upgrades available and is priced to high for what it offers (there is no groundbreaking features in that computer it is just a box with a slot drive that every manufacturer can and does compete with) and similarly the Mac Pro has very little upgrade options and does not offer anything groundbreaking. The Lenovo D20 workstation mops the floor with the Mac Pro technologically and on pricing. I'd gladly take that D20 over a Mac Pro any day. OS X or not. But again this is what I need/want and this is different for everybody.

You aren't familar with either case are you?

In Apple v. Psystar the restriction to limit installation of Mac OS X on Apple's hardware was specifically considered and ruled on.

Blizzard v. Glider had nothing to do with reselling.

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

Dont know what Glider is but im pretty sure Apple vs Psystar was due to the fact that Psystar was illegal because they were circumventing Apple copy protection and reselling that OS on a PC and nothing to do with "you shall not use OSX on anything but Apple computer".

In Blizzard v. Glider basically Glider was an application that cheaters of World of Warcraft could use to automate gameplay. The program would play their character for them on a set course killing monsters in the game to make the cheater rich. This was against the Blizzard EULA which meant cheaters who used it could be banned from the service.

However no one expected the EULA to hold up in court and Blizzard successfully argued that it was unlawful for Glider to operate and thus Glider was shutdown by court order.

This obviously sets a precedent as did the Apple v. Prystar outcome.

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

image1gp.jpg

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

I think about the closest comparison would be HP's Envy series (some people still say that the build quality isn't that great) or the Thinkpad series laptops with the sturdy roll cages.

In regards to the Acer listed on the front page:

1) 3.5 Hours of advertised battery life. The 17" MBP advertises 8-9 and the 13" adverises 10.

2) 17.3" screen at 1600x900. The 17" MBP has a resolution of 1920x1200

3) 7.05 lbs. The 17" MBP weighs 6.6lbs.

The MBP is also thinner and I'm sure has a much better build quality.

I'm always surprised at how many people on this board endlessly bash Apple for selling computers with higher build quality, more expensive materials, larger batteries and higher power efficiency.

A few forums over and you will find a thread where people are discussing whether to buy a $300 case or a $400 case for their next rig, and which water cooling system to buy because they want to keep their cooling budget under $400.

;)

tell me about it, i went into BMW to get a new three series, when i told them i was going to pay the same price as a same engined toyota they laughed. It's outrages and simply out of order, i want my new 3 series for the same price as a toyota.

The prices have always been higher than there pc counterparts, as the cost include Mac OSX and iLife, yes you can scrub the cost of OSX as all laptops come with an OS, however you have to pay a little more to use OSX. Next you have the case design, backlit keyboard, multitouch trackpad, battery life etc.

At the end of the day this is one of the reasons why commercial industries work, as people vote with their wallets. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

  • Like 2

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

I one-upped this. (Y) Thank you.

You think you are going to convince anybody? in this forum everyone is so closed on their own prejudices that no amount of sense will make them change. you know, how in hell are they going to argue if they start *gasp* understanding each other?

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

  • Like 3

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

Here's the whopper: why in holy hell do you all even care?

Like people have been pointing out: I can drive a Toyota. I can drive an Audi. Both can take me places. Hell, the Toyota might even have more bells and whistles, but I prefer driving the Audi, even if it's more expensive. I don't see you all going "This is Outrageous and Simply Out of Order."

In that case, you are still not paying for the components. You are paying for the engineering. No different than lower-powered Mercedes Benz being priced higher than a top of the line Hyundai. Both have an engine, a steering wheel, four wheels. The latter might even have more bells and whistles. But you don't question why the Benz is more expensive.

You also don't question that the Hyundai is a smarter buy. Plus it comes free of that arrogant attitude that is built into the Benz.

If you think those prices are outrageous don't come to europe. Here we get the same prices with a different currency symbol.

image1gp.jpg

Exchange rates? They'll never catch on.

According to Google, the highest priced machine at 2,249 euro works out at 2,970 dollars.

25% VAT

5 or 6 year production fault "warranty" on laptops and computers, and here 2.5 years warranty on batteries. mandatory.

But the other ones are more expensive over here to, and Apple is still far more expensive for what you get in return. And that's without me counting having to buy a decent OS :p

Or there are those who know a deal and a rip off when we see it.... When i can get everything for $1k less than a mbp, a few hours of battery life make no difference, especially when it can be tweaked, with ease, to get much more life. Just as mac users say PC'ers are too closed minded to change, same with mac users being too closed minded to see that the insane price is not really worth it. Specially when limited in so many ways with what you can do with it, unless you put windows on it.

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

  • Like 3

there is a reason people pay the premium for MBP's...if the price was not worth the product they wouldnt sell, but they do, and there is a reason for that...

Not everyone is a bargin hunter, some will dish out the cash for quality products.

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

Actually most Mac buyers buy it because of the logo, not because it's better or anything, they do it so people can see they are using a Mac, see that they are special and that they have money.

then there are the ones who "think" it is better but haven't actually used windows for ... well ever. and then they go on to forums and say how crap windows is, they drudge up some random factoids on the net and talk about them as facts and why they don't use it, despite everyone knowing for years already those factoids are BS. And then they go on to protect every problem Apple as like a crusader before their banished off to macrumors :p

If only we knew about people who are not like that...

oh, wait...

And here is, ladies and gentlemen, the proof to my post, thank you very much, good night :)

Ya, because me using logic in purchasing an item makes me not smart, but those who just blindly say they get quality for paying more are the better.

When apple uses the exact same hardware, just a different casing, it does not constitute "better" in any way other than pretty.

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    • Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 Ergonomic Office Chair review: The Ikea of chairs by Steven Parker I've reviewed a few gaming chairs over the past three years or so and generally found them to score well in our reviews. SIHOO reached out asking if I was interested in taking a look at their flagship chair, the Doro C300 Pro V2. I never got the chance to check out its predecessor, but the V2 is described as an "Adaptive Ergonomic Chair." It became available to buy in April of this year. Let's get things rolling with a closer look at the specifications and features. Specifications Doro C300 Pro V2 Model Ergonomic Materials Mesh Back and Seat; Soft PU Coated Armrests Height adjustability 45.5 - 53 cm / 17.5" - 20.9" Seat (w+d) 52 x 43 - 47 cm / 20.5" x 16.9" - 18.5" (adjustable) Backrest 52 – 60 cm / 20.5" - 23.6" (adjustable) Lumbar support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Armrest adjustability 8D Bionic Armrests Rocking angle 105°, 120°, 135° (fixed) Neck support Mesh built-in (adjustable) Net weight 27.3 kg / 59.64 lbs Weight support 150 kg / 330 lbs Colors Black, White Warranty 5 years (upon registering) Price $499.99, $539.99 Introduction At first glance, it looks like a chair that in another life wants to be a Herman Miller; It certainly looks like my Aeron Remastered, but the Doro C300 Pro V2 has quite a few more features and costs quite a bit less. SIHOO says that it is made up of a "DynaCore" system that tracks your movement and synchronizes the headrest, backrest, lumbar support, and armrests as you shift, twist, or recline. They also say that the "SyncroFlex Backrest" molds to your spine, which kind of describes how the mesh fabric works in most ergonomic chairs, but anyway. Below are the meat and potatoes measurements for the chair. Here is the same tech sheet, but in inches. Durability I would be remiss to not talk about the various durability testing this chair underwent before coming to market, as this is claimed on the product page. First of all, the chair is BIFMA-, SGS-, and TÜV-certified. As for durability, the tests undergone were: 100,000 Castor cycles tested 120,000 Armrest cycles tested 120,000 Recline cycles tested 120,000 Gas lift cycles tested 60,000 Armrest durability cycles tested 120,000 Rotation cycles tested Nothing about weights testing, though. Now that's all disclosed, now onto my own personal findings. Assembly The Doro C300 Pro V2 came in two large boxes (1) (2), and everything was packed very well, protecting the different parts of the chair. In the box, there is a folded sheet that explains the 12 steps to assemble it; they are: Remove the bottom cover on the aluminum base; Insert the five legs into the aluminum base and use ten screws to fasten them; Insert the castors into the legs; Replace the bottom cover on the bottom of the aluminum base; Place the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder into the aluminum base; Screw the bottom part of the arm rests, taking care of the orientation using two screws on each side; Use three torx screws to fasten the footrest to the bottom of the seat; Fasten the backrest to the seat using four torx bolts; Fasten the armrests to the backrest using four Torx bolts (two on each side), taking care to note the orientation; Place the chair onto the Class 4 Hydraulics gas cylinder; Insert the headrest into the top of the backrest; Use two torx screws to fasten the headrest to the backrest. There's also an online guide you can refer to. Carefully unpacking the two boxes took around 15 minutes because almost everything is wrapped in plastic and protective foam; the chair assembly itself took around an hour. I say in the above assembly steps to take note of the orientation, because it's not obvious which way around the bottom portion of the armrests go, and although there is an L and R on the bottom of the armrests, it also wasn't clear from the instructions which was actually left or right, facing the chair, or in the seated down orientation? Anyway, I ended up putting the bottom portions on the wrong sides, and after securing one of the armrests, I discovered that although it was on the correct side, the armrest base could rotate a full 360°, but not when bolted to the chair, so I had to remove it, rotate it, and then bolt it back on. Truly an Ikea experience! Also, to complicate things further, although all the parts are labeled from A to X (yes, that's 24 parts) unhelpfully, these letters do not appear on the parts themselves or the package with the bolts, screws, and washers. There's also a pair of protective gloves in the box, but I think they were made for much smaller hands than I have. Even my friend, who is 5.1, had difficulty putting them on. Once assembled, I needed to sit down. Anyway, as I said, it looks quite similar to my Herman Miller. And here is the back of it. If you look at the product page and on Amazon, it seems like a lot of thought has gone into the chair itself and what it's capable of, but there is no mention at all about the castors, and this is an area where I think the chair trips up quite quickly. I found it difficult to move the chair in any direction. I asked a friend who came to visit me earlier this week to test my findings, and she said that the wheels were "no good," so it definitely isn't just me. I am 6'2 myself and a big guy, I work from home and gained a few pounds from mostly staying in and the hell away from other people. However, the Doro C300 Pro V2 is rated for up to 150kg (330lbs), which in my case is used well within its max rating. Ergonomics The number of adjustments you can make, right up to setting it in nap mode — which I haven't fully tested yet — is what you'd expect from a premium chair. Yes, you can go up and down (max 7.5 cm adjustment), rock back and forth (with tilt adjustment), and lock the chair between three stages of 105°, 120°, 135°, which is not quite as flat as the AndaSeat I tested at 160°. Some thought has also gone into the "8D" armrests, too, which are cushioned but quite firm; you'll only know it if you press hard into the PU-covered tops, which give about half a centimeter, but it's enough to ensure your skin won't get awkwardly stuck to it in warmer (or sweatier) conditions. It almost feels like plastic and is very easy to keep clean. However, the armrest positions move far too easily, and I am not sure what that "elbow" function is. Maybe it is good for a short person with short arms, anyway, I never used it and kept it flat at all times. There are eight levels of adjustment for the armrests, they are: backwards, forwards, swing left/right, height up and down, tilt, and 360° rotation, which can be handy for desk clearance. As I said, the armrest pads shift far too easily, which could give off an ergonomic vibe, but who wants the armrest sliding when you are shifting weight? The height adjustability does lock into place when lifting and adjusting. Comfort This is ultimately what it boils down to at the end of the day, right? Quite a lot of reviews praise the comfort of this chair, and I don't disagree that the mesh seating is quite comfortable. I am used to the material from my daily Herman Miller. However, the backrest cannot be locked into place, and this is actually a feature; as you shift or recline yourself on the chair, the backrest moves with your body. It took some getting used to. The lumbar gives ample support, but I would have preferred an adjustable one built into the seat base, as this causes the backrest to move up and down at will. Again, as with my previous chair review, this chair is also rated for tall people, but nowhere in the product documentation does it say how tall. Being 6'2 myself, I'm happy to say that the backrest is tall and wide enough, and thought has been given to being able to adjust the neck rest, but as others have mentioned in their reviews, people as tall as 6.2ft is about the limit for the neckrest. Conclusion What I didn't like The footrest is rated for 15kg (33 lbs), which to me seems a bit light, and after looking online, it seems like a chair footrest for adults must be at least twice that rating. In all honesty, they are just hollow metal tubes, so it is not recommended to let a kid sit on them. I also feel like it doesn't really go out far enough for my height, so that kind of puts the dampener on me being able to use it regularly. I'll just have to continue to use my subwoofer as a footrest! I do not like the armrests being able to shift around as easily as they can, and they are a little too forward-positioned in the chair to comfortably sit close to my desk, because even in the lowest height position, they don't allow me to go under the desk like is possible with my Herman Miller. I also feel like this chair could have been delivered partially constructed, especially the armrests on the seat, and why the aluminum base wasn't already pre-constructed (without the castors) is baffling, considering it would have fit in one of the two boxes that way. The instructions also need to be clearer. On the pamphlet, there's an A to X listing (which is also used in the steps), but none of the physical parts use this lettering system! What I did like I'll be honest, I haven't used it for very long, just one week, and seating comfort is subjective after all! Any spills wiped straight off it, the stitching, and the lines look great, not a fray to be seen or stitch out of place. It looks kind of cool, too. My favorite feature of these seats is the nap mode. While you're not lying completely flat, it leans far back enough to make you easily doze off after a heavy gaming or working session. Overall, this chair offers plenty of comfort features. The MSRP does vary quite a bit depending on the region, at £549.99 in the UK, and €580 in Europe, and $599 before tax in the U.S. However, shipping is free, which is a bonus for such a heavy item. Is it worth it, though? At three years' warranty, I think it's a decent deal. Another firm out of Germany sent me a free replacement hydraulic gas spring for a chair that failed after almost four years, so it was well outside its two-year warranty. My advice is to always try, as you might have the same luck I did. If I could fault it at all, it would be the constant shifting of the armrests and backrest. Where to buy Although the footrest variant normally costs $539.99, it has been discounted to $469.99 on the official website in Black or White. In fact, the non-footrest variant is only $40 cheaper. On Amazon, it currently costs more at $499.99 links below. Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $469.99 (official website) Sihoo Doro C300 Pro V2 for $499.99 at Amazon US SIHOO provided a free sample without any review or pre-approval. Good to know This Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
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    • The only reason I want to know where you from is because if you are not from the U.K, then why should you care what we in the U.K do or don't do? Racist I am not, I am fed up with the amount coming over here and feel they can come over here and think we need to support them. Do you know how much it costs this country to support these people coming over here? Even when we give them a place to live it is not good enough. We had a barge that was being used to house immigrants, oh but that was not good enough. A mate said to me at the time, when he was homeless, he would have been happy to live on the barge, instead of ending up sleeping on a bench on the beach. I am not scared to say what my family heritage is, unlike you who is scared to say where they are from or where they live. Father side U.S, mother side Wales, still have family living in the U.S. A mate who sadly died a few years ago, had a load of people from different races recording in his studio, I got on with all of them. Skin colour don't bother me, where they are from don't bother me. Religion don't bother me as long as they don't push it onto me and it is not crazy stuff. I am not religious. But if you are not living in the U.K, then why should you care if we are in the E.U or not? This the problem, too many people poking their noses into where it don't belong. But you believe what you believe, if you think I am racist, then be it, I really do not care. Just grow a pair
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