[WC2010] Final: Netherlands vs. Spain (Game 64)

[azure.sapphire]

Maybe we were watching different matches, because I remember Spain being the ones moving the ball all over the playing field and trying to score all the time, with both Germany and Netherlands standing defensively on their own half and putting all their eggs on a few counters.

At least Germany did their best to play fair and take advantage of their height and their solid defense, rather than resorting to physical aggression. They should have been in the final instead of Netherlands.

Both teams whinned a lot, difference being that Spain was complaining about the obvious bullying attitude of Netherlands, while Netherlands was complaining about every well deserved call they got (didn't they even get some yellow cards because of that?).

It's no wonder Spain began acting to make it obvious for the referee that they were being kicked around with almost no calls.

Heitinga's red came because of the second yellow he got from grabbing a player from behind when he was facing the goal.

And anyway he seemed quite decided to play rough, granting two unnecessary kicks to Spaniards when the ball wasn't even near anymore, so it's not like it was a one time mistake the referee could have felt inclined to let go with a call but no card.

I will give you that Spain can move the ball. They, however, are not an above average goal scoring team. They beat Germany 1-0 and the Netherlands 1-0. Their group play was at best average. Probably their best game was against Portugal.

As for both teams whining I will agree. Aggressive play, however, does not equate to bullying, but rather being, well... aggressive play. This is essentially another game in which the referee has decided the outcome of the game. What I saw amounting to little more than a guy tripping over the line because he felt pressured. At best that should have been a free kick, and most likely... ignored. It doesn't really matter how Heitinga was playing the entire night, but rather how the played developed. It basically looked like a dive. I think he was more than capable of staying on his feet, though likely without the ball.

Except for all the commotion from the Spanish after Jet Li's...sorry, De Jong's, flying kick and an uncharacteristic bout of frustration from Puyol after he was fouled (with no call), all the whining seemed to come from the Dutch (especially Robben and Van Bommel). The dives didn't start coming from the Spanish (specifically Iniesta) until late, when the Spanish started getting frustrated that no red cards had come out for the Dutch despite the ridiculous bullying.

Contact does happen, but soccer/football is not the kind of the sport that the Dutch tried to make it.

It does matter how many yellows you have in a game. The red card was actually the result of a second yellow card being pulled on Heitinga. If a player gets two yellow cards, it's automatically a red card.

I sorry I guess when I was thinking of their dives I was taking the entire tournament into consideration. As for the alleged kick, I've seen worse. It looked like a very poorly timed attempt at the ball. It was worthy of a yellow but no more.

As for the two yellows automatically becoming a yellow... what is this because I am an American. Do I need a lecture on how football/soccer is played?

[rajputwarrior]

I will give you that Spain can move the ball. They, however, are not an above average goal scoring team. They beat Germany 1-0 and the Netherlands 1-0. Their group play was at best average. Probably their best game was against Portugal.

As for both teams whining I will agree. Aggressive play, however, does not equate to bullying, but rather being, well... aggressive play. This is essentially another game in which the referee has decided the outcome of the game. What I saw amounting to little more than a guy tripping over the line because he felt pressured. At best that should have been a free kick, and most likely... ignored. It doesn't really matter how Heitinga was playing the entire night, but rather how the played developed. It basically looked like a dive. I think he was more than capable of staying on his feet, though likely without the ball.

and the ref didn't do the dutch a favour by only giving de jong a yellow? that could have seriously injured alonso...

The referee argument is getting old. IT was bad, but don't act like the dutch were a bunch of martyrs. They were over aggressive (if not bullying the spanish) and it didn't work. The reffing wasn't good, but the dutch deserved the majority of the cards they got. Heitinga was playing rough all game, that second yellow was just a culmination of everything throughout the game.

[Pajter]

Heitinga was playing rough all game, that second yellow was just a culmination of everything throughout the game.

Even so, he should have gotten the 2nd yellow (red) on a actual foul.

[Elliott]

As for the two yellows automatically becoming a yellow... what is this because I am an American. Do I need a lecture on how football/soccer is played?

One, take a look at my location. Two, it seems like you didn't understand it, because by your argument, they should hold back a second yellow (a.k.a. issue a red) unless it's serious, which also breaks your whole argument about not taking past fouls into consideration in the first place.

From what I'm reading, many pundits are in consensus that more yellows and reds needed to be issued to the Dutch players, which is pretty staggering when you take into account that 14 cards (9 to the Dutch) were issued throughout the game. But no matter, because they didn't win despite getting off easy.

[rajputwarrior]

Even so, he should have gotten the 2nd yellow (red) on a actual foul.

while i agree it wasn't the strongest call, but he could have gotten it a couple of times before. it was just a culmination, he reffed talked to him a couple of times about it. guess he just seen enough

[idoia]

Spain of course.

What are the rest of you on crack?

Oh haiz, what happened?

I just came here to collect my LOLZ

[azure.sapphire]

and the ref didn't do the dutch a favour by only giving de jong a yellow? that could have seriously injured alonso...

The referee argument is getting old. IT was bad, but don't act like the dutch were a bunch of martyrs. They were over aggressive (if not bullying the spanish) and it didn't work. The reffing wasn't good, but the dutch deserved the majority of the cards they got. Heitinga was playing rough all game, that second yellow was just a culmination of everything throughout the game.

Why not. Issue him a red card and have the championship game decided by 10 on 11 play in regulation time.

[Pajter]

while i agree it wasn't the strongest call, but he could have gotten it a couple of times before. it was just a culmination, he reffed talked to him a couple of times about it. guess he just seen enough

It's true. But you can't say the ref didn't **** up some pretty big things. Biggest examples: De Jong's karate kick needed a red, and Sneijder's free kick should have resulted in a corner.

Anyway, like I said before, I hope FIFA will wake up and start getting their act together to encourage and - more importantly - enforce fair play. Which of course needs to be done by introducing video replays.

[azure.sapphire]

One, take a look at my location. Two, it seems like you didn't understand it, because by your argument, they should hold back a second yellow (a.k.a. issue a red) unless it's serious, which also breaks your whole argument about not taking past fouls into consideration in the first place.

From what I'm reading, many pundits are in consensus that more yellows and reds needed to be issued to the Dutch players, which is pretty staggering when you take into account that 14 cards (9 to the Dutch) were issued throughout the game. But no matter, because they didn't win despite getting off easy.

I am simply saying that it was a cheap win. Teams that have less talent usually do play more aggressively. This happens in every sport. They knew this going in. They called a tight game. I don't actually think there were 14 true cards in the game.

[rajputwarrior]

Why not. Issue him a red card and have the championship game decided by 10 on 11 play in regulation time.

so its okay to drop kick someone in the chest studs up and not get kicked out of the game for it? go watch wrestling...

It's true. But you can't say the ref didn't **** up some pretty big things. Biggest examples: De Jong's karate kick needed a red, and Sneijder's free kick should have resulted in a corner.

Anyway, like I said before, I hope FIFA will wake up and start getting their act together to encourage and - more importantly - enforce fair play. Which of course needs to be done by introducing video replays.

absolutely. you are 100 percent right. he did. that free kick at the end of the second half for spain was the equivalent of what happened to robben on his second breakway when puyol dragged him down and he never got the call The reffing was bad. period.

it's all on fifa, the reffing in the tourney has been a joke, as any american fan. It was like fifa didn't want them to get anywhere...

[ichi]

I will give you that Spain can move the ball. They, however, are not an above average goal scoring team. They beat Germany 1-0 and the Netherlands 1-0. Their group play was at best average. Probably their best game was against Portugal.

True, although that's what you get when your opponent gameplay is based on not getting scored rather than scoring themselves, playing with 10 guys on defense. The best you can do is move the ball around until you find a way to break in, but still you won't get to score a lot unless your opponent utterly sucks.

Spain was still a bit shy when it came to shooting, though, they could have gave it a go a lot more ofter rather than trying to get the perfect shot (and failing at that more often than not). Maybe they were afraid of jabulani's tendency to not go where it was expected to (by the way that would have made a quite annoying penalty shootout deciding the final, I was hopping we would get to watch that :p ).

As for both teams whining I will agree. Aggressive play, however, does not equate to bullying, but rather being, well... aggressive play. This is essentially another game in which the referee has decided the outcome of the game. What I saw amounting to little more than a guy tripping over the line because he felt pressured. At best that should have been a free kick, and most likely... ignored. It doesn't really matter how Heitinga was playing the entire night, but rather how the played developed. It basically looked like a dive. I think he was more than capable of staying on his feet, though likely without the ball.

You can play aggressive by, say, taking advantage of your physical superiority to displace or even knock down rivals while fighting for the ball.

Kicking players when the ball is not near (that is, you have absolutely zero chances of getting the ball and your only intention is harming) is not aggressive play but outright bullying. Heitinga alone did that twice.

He didn't get the red card because of Iniesta falling to the ground, he got it because he grabbed Iniesta from behind to prevent him from reaching the ball when he was about to get alone in front of the goalkeeper. The foul was done before Iniesta dived and Heitinga rised his hands, and it was well worth a yellow card.

Under different circumstances the referee might have spared Heitinga the card, even when deserved, but given Netherlands' attitude during the whole match there was no reason to not draw it. Quite the opposite actually, you could tell the referee was fed up with Netherlands constant foul-whine-foul-whine loop.

Netherlands apparently wasn't confident on their own skills being enough to beat Spain so they resorted to bullying in order to break Spain's game flow and hopefully score in a quick counter, probably thinking that being a final the referee wouldn't want to go flashing reds around. That was a plan that deserved failing, and it did.

[Valerus]

It was a really bad final. I've been supporting the Dutch all throughout the tournament and was ecstatic to see them (Sneijder) destroy Brazil and eventually make it to the final.

Then when they got there...this physical stuff...I mean come on. They played way too dirty. It was sad to see. Van Bommel and de Jong were ridiculous.

Now, some of the yellow cards shouldn't have come out, I think Webb was too trigger-happy at some points. The second Heitenga card is very debatable.

Spain had been pretty boring this WC, and relied too much on late goals (kinda like the US :p).

I think the Germans deserved to win the World Cup but they did not show up against Spain. Sad, really.

It should have been Germany v. Netherlands but whatever. Congrats to Spain.

[sanctified Veteran]

I predict spain will win 1 to 0

[alfaaqua]

I predict spain will win 1 to 0

Wrong, as Spain won 0 to 1.

You guessed after the match was over and still got it wrong? :unsure:

[red.]

and without the scoring they still managed to win. It doesn't help when one of the best pure strikers in the world was playing with one leg... you know the guy who scored the winning goal in that european tournament and set up the winner in this world cup. They absolutely dominated possession in every game this tourney. They also made the so called best teams in the torney look like amateurs (germans, dutch).

And another question.... how many goals did they give up? ;)

I don't think back then Spain were playing in such a defensive formation. And plus i don't see how not conceding many goals helps to disparage any remarks about Spain being boring ;)

For starters, I don't think you can single Spain out as the only play acting team. Yes they play act, but as do the majority of other teams and some of the others are a lot worse. Does that make it any less of an offence? No, but it's part of the game until FIFA decide to stamp it out.

Once again people are criticising the Spanish style of play without giving much credit to their opposition. Germany sat back with 10 men behind the ball and invited Spain forward. They hoped to hit Spain on the break and outnumber them, the problem being was that Spain rarely give up possession and when they do they'll work exceptionally hard to either win it back or force you to commit and error. There is no team that works harder than Spain.

So yes, whilst they didn't score an abundance of goals their quality and style of football was far superior to any other team at the finals. I didn't realise that the more goals you score, the better a team you are. Spain conceded 2 goals throughout the whole tournament. I think that speaks volumes.

I'm not singling them out as the only team that dives but i've noticed the players doing it quite a bit both for the national team and for Barcelona. Besides, i wouldn't mind the way they play if it weren't for them and a lot people going on (and on) about how they play football 'beautifully' and in the right way and are a team by which other teams should look at. I'm just pointing out the negative aspects of this supposed beautiful football which a lot of people seem to ignore because they pass in such pretty triangles. In fact, i'm guessing a lot of these people were probably ones who though Italy were boring.

Like i said, i liked the way they were playing back in the Euros. They would be much better if they weren't so one paced for a lot of the time, reduced some of the superfluous passing and actually had a shot rather than trying to play the perfect ball every single time. How many times did they do this? In the end it's frustrating and tedious to watch. Look at the difference Fabregas made when he came on. He did this crazy thing where he ran at the opposition and actually shot before the opposition had a time to get back.

Maybe all the teams should start playing like New Zealand. After all, they were the only undefeated team in the tournament ;)