Recommended Posts

The biggest problem we face imo is that a rep system is all well and good when it can't be abused, but the other problem Neowin has is that "bad members" are impossible to tell for new members and maybe less active ones. There is no "mark" on your profile to show other users that the member has been in trouble with site moderators on multiple occasions, and the concensous is that it wouldn't even be a good idea to show it, because those same members may even use the "mark" as a badge of honour, while others will do everything in their power to get back down to 0% again (and this does happen).

I'm not trying to generalise that group, as I have seen a few go from 100% to 0% warning level, bearing in mind that takes 2.5 years (auto reduction every 6 months), that is pretty impressive! Kudos to them (Y)

My problem is the group that continually questions and responds negatively to any staff decision or announcement (like this one) because they are on high warns and are just being difficult, and because they can, if their profile was marked, then other members might see their responses like I do in a totally different light. These people are the ones that fail any sort of "faith" system where we put the power in your own hands, and ask not to abuse it.

Still the whole mess could've been avoided by not installing the rep system in the first place. As you might remember i alerted you to a staff member actively inciting people to abuse the rep system. He got 7 rep points for it. Got the screenshot if you want.

I guess like in real life, you just have to learn to live with the fact that people are just like humans: prone to do things they shouldn't. In an ideal world, with ideal people, communism would be a perfect system. But since there\s no ideal world, nor ideal people this was bound to fail. As the rep system.

I cant count how many times I saw a reply to a helpful/insightful post that consisted of something like "+1, thanks." and there was no actual rep given. On the flipside, there were a bunch of troll posts that people found funny and repped up a bunch. And thats just the truth.

When the system is used like that, of course its not going to work as expected. If everybody would rep ANY posts they read that were positive or helpful, not just ones responding to them directly, or ones they thought were funny, peoples rep would show much truer numbers.

There is nothing wrong with the rep system, countless other forums use public rep with no issues. The problem was in the way most people were using it.

If you were a newcomer here, posting for help on some topic, how would you know which post you could trust? If we had a decent rep system, then you would know that the poster who had a high number of rep points had helped many people in the past and you could trust what he said. In any given help thread, we sometimes have wildly conflicting advice. To me it would be comforting to know that if a poster told me I had to delete something to fix something, that he had many rep points behind his advice. I would hate to take the advice of some random poster and boink my installation.

What kind of logic is that? Troubleshooting a problem is never straight forward. You never have the same problem twice. I would hope that they person having the problem would try every bit of advice given in the thread. And along the way learn something knew. I'm not a forum newbie (yes I cheat on Neowin). And this is the only forum that wants a rep system, which no matter how you try to integrate it will encourage "epeen".

I think the following is a very good idea and quite a workable one. I've included my analysis also:

A. Requirements

1. Users should be able to identify which are the "trusted" users and which are the "non-trusted" ones.

2. Users should know which posts they should pay attention to in the view of other readers of the same thread.

B. Proposed Solution

1. Let users decide whose opinions they take seriously, and then view only ratings by those users (along with a breakdown of who rated how many stars and why). Eg: If I only take neobond's and growled's opinions seriously, I can select that on their profiles, and when I view somebody elses profile I will be shown the average of ratings by only them and as an option, a breakdown of their individual ratings for the user along with the reason they've put for the associated rating. Also, put the average of all ratings (maybe even a history of ratings) handed out on the profile of the user that handed out the ratings (will encourage people to be more balanced and not resort to using the rating system only when they have an issue).

2. Bring back the rep system but only display the number next to individual posts (for viewers to see which posts help solve a problem for eg). Additional options:

- Do not link this number back to the person's profile in any way, OR,

- Give a single rep point (displayed in the profile) for every post that has got more than say 3 of the "old" reps.

Benefits

1. Lesser potential for ratings abuse as those who abuse the system are less likely to be taken seriously by other users.

2. There is no incentive to abuse the rep system on posts because it's completely local to the post (or optionally, has limited impact).

Disadvantages:

The rep points still mean nothing but someone elses opinion. Lot's of someone elses opinions don't necessarily make the opinion better, it might as well show how incapable the someone elses are.

Consensus doesn't make something 'good', It just shows many people can make the same mistake.

+1

And what would that add? A kind of extra mod power, we won't cut of your hand but just your pinkie? Pointless exercise in futility. I have had staff actively encouraging members to abuse the repsystem in order to try and humiliate me. I find no solace in yet another personal 'judgment'.

Why doesn't everyone just wait and see what we decide to do, instead of having a long argument based on assumptions?

Yes its always the communities fault, how about you drop the condescending attitude and explain what is coming up so the community doesnt have to argue based on assumptions. What i hate about Neowin the so called staff treating everyone like little kiddies with their "you dont need to know" answer for everything.

Yes its always the communities fault, how about you drop the condescending attitude and explain what is coming up so the community doesnt have to argue based on assumptions.

Perhaps staff haven't finalised their plans yet? Let's wait and see what the dev team will come up with. I trust them to find a solution which is satisfactory for all of us.

Yes its always the communities fault, how about you drop the condescending attitude and explain what is coming up so the community doesnt have to argue based on assumptions. What i hate about Neowin the so called staff treating everyone like little kiddies with their "you dont need to know" answer for everything.

Because, as I have said before, and implied in the post you quoted. We haven't reached a decision yet, and any action is going to be some time away. When we HAVE decided, and are ready to announce it to the community, then we will. There is no point in announcing things before we have decided what those things are.

Why doesn't everyone just wait and see what we decide to do, instead of having a long argument based on assumptions?

You couldn't be more condescending if you tried. The community has no say at all, Neowin decides and we accept it or shut the door behind us is the literal meaning of what is posted here.

Lock the thread, we'll stop bothering you with suggestions.

And what would that add? A kind of extra mod power, we won't cut of your hand but just your pinkie? Pointless exercise in futility. I have had staff actively encouraging members to abuse the repsystem in order to try and humiliate me. I find no solace in yet another personal 'judgment'.

And far too many members would abuse it even more without any encouragement from anyone.

You couldn't be more condescending if you tried. The community has no say at all, Neowin decides and we accept it or shut the door behind us is the literal meaning of what is posted here.

Lock the thread, we'll stop bothering you with suggestions.

OMG. I found myself agreeing with you there Wonkey, would have given you a +1 rep as well :D (Y)

Maybe we should stop talking, I mean. Who are we to talk about things. Damn I wish we had a community forum where we could talk about random and sometimes IRL issues. Oh wait. Thats Neowin. If the staff don't like us talking about certain issues they have the ability to lock threads. Until then it looks like its fine to talk about it.

You couldn't be more condescending if you tried. The community has no say at all, Neowin decides and we accept it or shut the door behind us is the literal meaning of what is posted here.

Lock the thread, we'll stop bothering you with suggestions.

All I was saying is that this is pointless speculation involving members arguing with each other over what they think is best for the site. I indicated in a previous post the general idea of the direction we are likely to take the feature in, but the argument continues over the best way to allocate rep points for members to use, or if they should even be allocated them, when I made it clear that our intention is to make it mostly automated for certain actions that members perform on the site, with occasional bonus rep awarded by staff for members who we feel deserve it. Arguing with each other is not going to achieve anything, or influence our decisions when the argument doesn't even address the general direction of the plans we have revealed to you.

For the record, we would welcome ideas on what actions rep points could be awarded for. For example, I am keen to try out the idea of having the ability in support threads for the thread starter to mark certain posts as 'helpful solutions'. This could then add a link direct to the solution in the first post, and award rep points to the member who made that post. In members profiles it would *potentially* be the case that their rep would be broken down to show just how they earnt it.

Ideas like that would be great, arguments going back and forth about if/how members abused/would abuse the rep system if it were brought back in a similar style to the one recently removed, are not productive.

All I was saying is that this is pointless speculation involving members arguing with each other over what they think is best for the site. I indicated in a previous post the general idea of the direction we are likely to take the feature in, but the argument continues over the best way to allocate rep points for members to use, or if they should even be allocated them, when I made it clear that our intention is to make it mostly automated for certain actions that members perform on the site, with occasional bonus rep awarded by staff for members who we feel deserve it. Arguing with each other is not going to achieve anything, or influence our decisions when the argument doesn't even address the general direction of the plans we have revealed to you.

Ok. Sorry i must have skipped that post.

You are developing a system you think should do the (a) trick, regardless if anyone wants it or not, regardless whether it serves a purpose other then being there or not, but is destined for putting people off some way some day.?

I know this is a privately owned (is it actually?) forum and the owner makes the rules.

But there's some leeway between pure 'we know what's good for you' and 'you'll do as you're told or else go elsewhere'. I know it's pesky having members that can actually want something/disagree, but hey that's the risk you take when you start a public forum.

For the record, we would welcome ideas on what actions rep points could be awarded for.?

Uhhhh.... showing their boobs? I mean seriously

You are developing a system you think should do the (a) trick, regardless if anyone wants it or not, regardless whether it serves a purpose other then being there or not, but is destined for putting people off some way some day.

We added many features in the latest update that people hadn't asked for, yet they are widely used now. If we develop it and it turns out not to be useful, or puts people off, then you can say you told us so. Personally, I have seen a number of requests across the time I've been on staff for the ability to mark posts as solutions as I described in my previous post. I see no downside to rewarding people for providing solutions, and giving users a way of seeing who reliable, helpful people are on the site.

Uhhhh.... showing their boobs? I mean seriously

Yeah, I meant sensible, constructive ideas. If all we get is childish ideas, then don't be surprised when we start treating members like children.

We added many features in the latest update that people hadn't asked for, yet they are widely used now. If we develop it and it turns out not to be useful, or puts people off, then you can say you told us so. Personally, I have seen a number of requests across the time I've been on staff for the ability to mark posts as solutions as I described in my previous post. I see no downside to rewarding people for providing solutions, and giving users a way of seeing who reliable, helpful people are on the site.

:wacko:?You see no downside but you are forced to change the system so rep points get alloted according to 'approved' lines rather then freely. Seems like one huge downside to me else why change it.

We added many features in the latest update that people hadn't asked for, yet they are widely used now. If we develop it and it turns out not to be useful, or puts people off, then you can say you told us so. Personally, I have seen a number of requests across the time I've been on staff for the ability to mark posts as solutions as I described in my previous post. I see no downside to rewarding people for providing solutions, and giving users a way of seeing who reliable, helpful people are on the site.

Yeah, I meant sensible, constructive ideas. If all we get is childish ideas, then don't be surprised when we start treating members like children.

There are pitfalls to that though...

It isn't as easy as that. More often than not, solving a problem is a team effort. So I might suggest something, it might not work. But another member might have another idea, branching off mine and that might work. or vice versa. Also, there is likely more than one way to solve a technical issue. Sometimes the end user doesn't want a complete fix but a quick dirty hack/workaround.

As well as solving issues, there is the case of advising the user as well. Surely if you give good advice that ought to be recognised? It is all good and well, helping a user get rid of malware on his/her system. But useless if you don't outline preventative measures afterwards.

It is never clear cut.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • I'm fine with a little reasonable promotion of Edge, but the degree which they do it right now I consider extremely unreasonable. 
    • Microsoft AI boss no longer believes that AI will replace human workers by David Uzondu Mustafa Suleyman, the head of Microsoft AI, recently took back his statements concerning white-collar jobs that he gave to the Financial Times in an interview made back in February, where he claimed that AI would replace office workers within 12 to 18 months. On Monday's episode of The Verge's Decoder, Suleyman recast the technology as more like a helpmate than a tool designed to take over your job. He explained that smaller office duties will "increasingly become digitized, automated" as people generate more digital materials. During the discussion, Suleyman emphasized a "very important distinction" between "tasks" and "jobs" to clarify his previous claims. He argued that his earlier comments only referred to individual actions that people perform at their desks. Suleyman used to work for DeepMind, the research lab he co-founded in 2010 alongside Demis Hassabis and Shane Legg, before he left in 2022 to establish Inflection AI and build an empathetic digital assistant. Microsoft hired him in March 2024 to lead its newly formed "Microsoft AI" division, placing him in charge of consumer products like Copilot, Bing, and Edge. His February comments also detailed plans for Microsoft to achieve self-sufficiency with a $140 billion infrastructure budget to train frontier models, predicting that creating a customized AI will soon feel like creating a podcast or a new blog: The 41-year-old is not the only AI executive who's softened his "AI will replace you" stance. OpenAI's CEO, Sam Altman, last month used X to push back against employment panic by arguing that his startup builds tools to assist humans rather than build replacements. He had previously garnered backlash by suggesting that many modern office roles that AI might replace did not qualify as "real work" in the first place, at least when you compare desk jobs to physical, historical labor like farming.
    • Adobe Acrobat Reader DC 2026.001.21662 by Razvan Serea Adobe Acrobat Reader DC software is the free, trusted standard for viewing, printing, signing, and annotating PDFs. Its the only PDF viewer that can open and interact with all types of PDF content – including forms and multimedia. It’s connected to Adobe Document Cloud – so you can work with PDFs on computers and mobile devices. Adobe Document Cloud is a revolutionary, modern and efficient way to get work done with documents in the office, at home or on-the-go. At the heart of Document Cloud is the all-new Adobe Acrobat DC, which will take e-signatures mainstream by delivering free e-signing with every individual subscription. Document Cloud includes a set of integrated services that use a consistent online profile and personal document hub. With Adobe Document Cloud, people will be able to create, review, approve, sign and track documents whether on a desktop or mobile device. Businesses will be able to take advantage of Document Cloud for enterprise which provides enterprise-class document services that integrate into systems of record such as CRM, HCM, CLM, and CMS, adding speed, efficiency and transparency to getting business done with documents. Adobe Acrobat Reader DC new feature highlights: Work with PDFs from anywhere with the new, free Acrobat DC mobile app for Android or iOS. Select functionality is also available on Windows Phone. Use the new Fill & Sign tool in your desktop software to complete PDF forms fast with smart autofill. Download the free Adobe Fill & Sign mobile app to add the same option to your iPad or Android tablet device. Save money on ink and toner when printing from your Windows PC. Store and access files in Adobe Document Cloud with 5GB of free storage. Get instant access to recent files across desktop, web, and mobile devices with Mobile Link. Sync your Fill & Sign autofill collection across desktop, web, and iPad devices. Adobe PDF Pack premium features includes: Convert documents and images to PDF files. Use your mobile device camera to take a picture of a paper document or form and convert it to PDF. Turn PDFs into editable Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or RTF files. Combine multiple files into a single PDF (web only). Get signatures from others with a complete e-signature service. Send, track, and confirm delivery of documents electronically instead of using fax or overnight services (tracking not available on mobile). Store and access files online with 20GB of storage. Download: Adobe Acrobat Reader DC 64-bit | 719.0 MB (Freeware) Link: Adobe Acrobat Reader DC Home Page | Release Notes | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • Meta will now use data from outside businesses to personalize AI responses by David Uzondu In an update that's rolling out globally (except in a handful of countries), Meta will use your data from outside businesses to personalize your AI responses and your primary feeds. Meta already utilizes your shopping activity to target ads, but the company now plans to expand this tracking to personalize other "parts of your experience" like feed algorithms and AI assistant chats. The company is replacing the two settings ("Your activity off Meta technologies" and "Activity from other businesses") that currently let you disconnect off-platform activity with a single, renamed setting called Activity from other businesses. If you don't want Meta to manipulate your feed and AI responses using your outside history, you can just turn the Activity from other businesses setting off in your account settings. This toggle resides within your Accounts Center, applying your choice to every connected profile. Turning this off will not stop companies from sending your data to Meta. The company will still collect your web interactions, but it only uses them to train products, while still accessing external accounts you connect. When The Verge spoke to Meta spokesperson, Emil Vazquez, the representative said that this update will exclude several locations at launch including the European region, the UK, Brazil, Thailand, South Africa, Turkey, South Korea, Ecuador, Nigeria, and Kenya. The new update comes at a time when the social media giant is recovering from a major PR disaster involving generative AI. Last week, there was a huge security issue on Instagram where attackers figured out a way to exploit a prompt injection vulnerability. Hackers managed to trick Meta AI into handing over account ownership (even if the victim had 2FA enabled). Some of the affected accounts include the dormant Obama White House profile, cosmetics brand Sephora, the Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force, and security researcher Jane Manchun Wong. Internally, the company also had to scale back plans on its Model Capability Initiative (MCI), an employee-monitoring program designed to train corporate AI models by recording worker keystrokes and screen activity, after employees raised privacy concerns and complained about severe battery life drain.
    • JetBrains is working to cut false positives in RustRover 2026.2 by David Uzondu Recently, JetBrains released the fifth EAP build of its dedicated IDE, RustRover 2026.2, bringing improvements like a Run gutter icon for criterion_main! macro benchmarking and a feature that alerts you when there are unused traits in your current scope. Now, the company is out with a blog post addressing one of the "most common" complaints from users: false positives. In RustRover, a false positive occurs when the editor incorrectly highlights something as an error even though the project compiles and runs successfully. This mismatch flags a gap between the IDE's internal intelligence and the actual compiler. When the editor flashes red warnings over perfectly valid code, developers lose trust in the tool, which stalls momentum. Traditionally, RustRover runs cargo check to detect compiler errors and warnings, but it also relies on its own code analysis engine to power real-time features. To provide quick feedback, this engine parses your source code into a syntax tree while inferring types and resolving names as you type. Because this engine must work on broken, half-written code and react instantly, its logic sometimes diverges from the compiler's, producing false positives that do not exist in the compiler's eyes. JetBrains said that it has a "dedicated task force" focused specifically on identifying and fixing false positives by analyzing user reports and examining large-scale open-source projects. To speed up this process, the team built an internal system modeled after Crater, the famous Rust project that compiles and runs tests for every single crate published on crates.io. This automated pipeline compares the diagnostics from RustRover's analysis with actual compiler output to catch discrepancies before they reach users, ensuring smoother workflows. RustRover, for those who're unaware, is a dedicated IDE designed specifically for Rust developers. It's been around for a couple of years now, providing features like built-in debugging via LLDB, seamless cargo integration, advanced macro expansion, and HTML support. JetBrains distributes the app under two licensing models: a paid commercial subscription and a free option for non-commercial use.
  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      Primer1st earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Experienced
      JayZJay went up a rank
      Experienced
    • Reacting Well
      Sir_Timbit earned a badge
      Reacting Well
    • Week One Done
      rubentuben8 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Week One Done
      ARaclen earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      512
    2. 2
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      229
    3. 3
      Edouard
      134
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      87
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      80
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!