official Portal 2

[Lamp0]

As much as I enjoyed the singleplayer I feel a bit underwhelmed. I feel like I missed something.

[Doli]

As much as I enjoyed the singleplayer I feel a bit underwhelmed. I feel like I missed something.

Same here. If it has robots trying to kill you I would expect a little more danger in the test. Only two parts has panels with spikes, how disappointing. Not even a level using propulsion gel to run between spikes, you run under some giant mashing pistons outside of the test areas.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

I completed the co-op last night with a friend (split-screen).

... Just amazing. It's the best co-operative game I've played. Ever. And I'm obsessed with co-op games. :laugh: It had us scratching our heads a lot, so much fun to get things right

especially the test where you have to fling yourself at the other player! :D

[Chasethebase Veteran]

Same here. If it has robots trying to kill you I would expect a little more danger in the test. Only two parts has panels with spikes, how disappointing. Not even a level using propulsion gel to run between spikes, you run under some giant mashing pistons outside of the test areas.

The points with the propulsion gel and spike panels was removed due to it relying more on timing rather than solving a puzzle.

[Lamp0]

The points with the propulsion gel and spike panels was removed due to it relying more on timing rather than solving a puzzle.

I guess that makes sense.

Also I am guessing they removed those vacuum tube things?

I think it's odd how they should that stuff and then just took it all out.

[Lexcyn]

I hope they release some DLC levels for this ... it would be sweet.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

I unfortunately have not been able to play this game much since it's release, I am on Chapter 5 or 6 right now, but I just have to say this is easily the worst loading implementation I have seen in a modern day game in quite some time. It really is awful, and I thought maybe it was just the PS3 version, but nope, PC version as well. Just is crazy how much loading is needed, especially when nothing about the game is visually impressive whatsoever. I just do not get why the loading feels like it is 2004.

[Nagisan]

I unfortunately have not been able to play this game much since it's release, I am on Chapter 5 or 6 right now, but I just have to say this is easily the worst loading implementation I have seen in a modern day game in quite some time. It really is awful, and I thought maybe it was just the PS3 version, but nope, PC version as well. Just is crazy how much loading is needed, especially when nothing about the game is visually impressive whatsoever. I just do not get why the loading feels like it is 2004.

I thought it felt pretty cool with the whole logo thing constantly changing based on where you are at in the game. That being said, the game didn't take nearly as long to load as some of the "visually impressive" games. The loading did seem a bit excessive (I honestly don't see why the game couldn't load the following chamber, or at least the first few rooms when you got near the end of a level), but at the same time, this game does have a concept that no other, even the most "visually impressive" games have. Portals.....that sole feature means the game almost has to have the entire level (or a large portion of it) loaded into memory at once, leaving less memory for preloading the next level. Imagine how much memory it would require to add portals that you can see through to any normal game. You would need to load nearly the entire level at once and wouldn't have room to preload the next area. I'm willing to bet Valve used load screens the way they did to keep memory usage down and performance up. In this game theres just too high a chance that the player will be able to see multiple rooms spread over a large distance that they can't unload parts of a level that the player has passed without being extremely careful, otherwise they will cause crap performance and potential crashes.

Not to mention, with propulsion gel and flinging yourself around, you tend to travel much faster in Portal than you do in most other standard games, so you would need to preload quite far ahead to keep up at times.

What exactly is it you don't like about the load screens, just their look or the amount of them? I think both are fine based on the way Portal 2 plays, even the look of them fits, it constantly changes as you go through the game to fit where you are in the story.

[Ayepecks]

I unfortunately have not been able to play this game much since it's release, I am on Chapter 5 or 6 right now, but I just have to say this is easily the worst loading implementation I have seen in a modern day game in quite some time. It really is awful, and I thought maybe it was just the PS3 version, but nope, PC version as well. Just is crazy how much loading is needed, especially when nothing about the game is visually impressive whatsoever. I just do not get why the loading feels like it is 2004.

Yup, same as other Source-engine games. Valve really needs to work on that.

[Singh400]

+1 on the loading thing. They need to do background loading so the game is seamless.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

I thought it felt pretty cool with the whole logo thing constantly changing based on where you are at in the game. That being said, the game didn't take nearly as long to load as some of the "visually impressive" games. The loading did seem a bit excessive (I honestly don't see why the game couldn't load the following chamber, or at least the first few rooms when you got near the end of a level), but at the same time, this game does have a concept that no other, even the most "visually impressive" games have. Portals.....that sole feature means the game almost has to have the entire level (or a large portion of it) loaded into memory at once, leaving less memory for preloading the next level. Imagine how much memory it would require to add portals that you can see through to any normal game. You would need to load nearly the entire level at once and wouldn't have room to preload the next area. I'm willing to bet Valve used load screens the way they did to keep memory usage down and performance up. In this game theres just too high a chance that the player will be able to see multiple rooms spread over a large distance that they can't unload parts of a level that the player has passed without being extremely careful, otherwise they will cause crap performance and potential crashes.

Not to mention, with propulsion gel and flinging yourself around, you tend to travel much faster in Portal than you do in most other standard games, so you would need to preload quite far ahead to keep up at times.

What exactly is it you don't like about the load screens, just their look or the amount of them? I think both are fine based on the way Portal 2 plays, even the look of them fits, it constantly changes as you go through the game to fit where you are in the story.

Umm, okay, did not expect such a detail response over loading times, as I do not really think they are something that would need defending and/or should be defended. In this day and age there are many different ways to approach said loading, and Portal 2, and as Ayepecks pointed out, the current iteration of the Source engine on a whole, does not do a good job at loading. Really is plain and simple. For someone like myself who only has 20 minutes here, 45 minutes there to play the game, it really gets quite annoying when my guesstimate would be that 15% of that time is spent looking at loading screens.

But to answer your question, the look of them is fine, no problem there, and I could actually care less what a loading screen looks like as it has no affect on gameplay for me at all. But I do like the look of them. It is the amount of them that is ridiculous.

And I don't know, maybe the game gets super wide open after Chapter 5 or 6, but I do not see any massively huge levels yet? They are relatively small levels as far as levels go. I have not gotten to any gels yet, so maybe they open up, but as of now, I see absolutely no reason for all of the loading, as things have been pretty simplistic, and the Material Emancipation Grid makes sure the portals get reset after each level.

The only really wide open level so far is the Chapter I am on which is

The Escape

and it literally stops in between doors to load, or just right in the middle of the level itself, and does not even use elevators as the excuse to load. So it just totally breaks the immersion of the entire level. And actually in the Chapter I just mentioned I was on above, there are no elevators in between test chambers, just a pretty wide open back end. And there is also no Material Emancipation Grid. So why do my portals all of a sudden rest themselves just because the game had to load? Wherever I last left by Blue Portal, that is where my Blue Portal should be no? But that is not the case, at least from what I have seen, loading also wipes out the portals, which to me is a terrible inconsistency in the game itself.

Just feel the loading is terribly handled. It fortunately does not destroy the experience, however it is worth noting IMO as it is that much of an issue.

[Ayepecks]

I agree that the evolution of the logo in the loading screens is neat, but honestly, that could be implemented just as well with loading screens only between chapters, instead of having loading screens about 5-10 times a chapter. The fact that Valve hasn't improved upon its loading system is extremely frustrating, given it's been the exact same since Half-Life 2's release in 2004.

It's definitely possible to update the loading system in an engine without making a completely new engine -- happens all the time. Look at what Epic did in Gears of War. The original was very similar to the Source engine's loading system, but Epic updated it to include a streamlined background loading system in the sequel. The biggest weakness of the Source engine isn't the graphics (which I honestly think are fine, even if they are dated -- still look good to me), it's the loading system. I'm not sure whether it's a complement or an insult to say the biggest problem with Portal 2 is the loading system, but it is extremely annoying.

I'm not really sure how anyone can argue the loading system in the Source engine isn't extremely dated. I just don't see how it's even up for debate, personally. Valve needs to fix it by Half-Life 3, which I'm guessing will use a brand new version of the Source engine.

[Athernar]

Umm, okay, did not expect such a detail response over loading times, did not really think they are something that would need defending or should be defended, in this day and age there are many different ways to approach said loading, and Portal 2, and as Ayepecks pointed out, the Source engine on a whole, does not do a good job at loading. Really is plain and simple. For someone like myself who only has 20 minutes here, 45 minutes there to play the game, it really gets quite annoying when my guesstimate would be that 15% of that time I am looking at loading screens.

I saw a TellTale Games employee tweet something about this that was quite illuminating. Portal 1 loaded just as much as Portal 2 does, the difference is Portal 2 has loading screens whereas Portal 1 was just the last rendered frame with a minimalist LOADING overlay.

As cool as P2's loading screens were, they probably should've stuck with the old style loading. If not sprucing it up a little first.

[argonite]

Portals.....that sole feature means the game almost has to have the entire level (or a large portion of it) loaded into memory at once, leaving less memory for preloading the next level. Imagine how much memory it would require to add portals that you can see through to any normal game. You would need to load nearly the entire level at once and wouldn't have room to preload the next area. I'm willing to bet Valve used load screens the way they did to keep memory usage down and performance up. In this game theres just too high a chance that the player will be able to see multiple rooms spread over a large distance that they can't unload parts of a level that the player has passed without being extremely careful, otherwise they will cause crap performance and potential crashes.

Here's the thing: if the engine was built well, you can still have multiple levels in a map and only copy the parts of the map that the user can access at any given time. That is maybe only the current room or level. Then you just teleport the rest of the map geometry in when the user is done with the current level.

As far as I know, the Source engine is fairly good with Z-culling (removal of non-visible objects), so having many levels in one map should not pose a processing problem.

[Nagisan]

Umm, okay, did not expect such a detail response over loading times, did not really think they are something that would need defending or should be defended, in this day and age there are many different ways to approach said loading, and Portal 2, and as Ayepecks pointed out, the Source engine on a whole, does not do a good job at loading. Really is plain and simple. For someone like myself who only has 20 minutes here, 45 minutes there to play the game, it really gets quite annoying when my guesstimate would be that 15% of that time I am looking at loading screens.

But to answer your question, the look of them is fine, no problem there, and I could actually care less what a loading screen looks like as it has no affect on gameplay for me at all. It is the amount of them that is ridiculous.

Loading screens took maybe 10-15 seconds for me, but I am on a SSD....much less overall than 15% of my playtime....most levels took at least a few minutes to solve, to me, the 15 second load times every few minutes were not bad at all, but again, that's on a SSD, I have no clue how the load times are on standard HDDs.

And I dont know, maybe the game gets super wide open after Chapter 5 or 6, but I do not see any massively huge levels yet? They are relatively small levels as far as levels go. I have not gotten to any gels yet, so maybe they open up, but as of now, I see absolutely no reason for all of the loading, as things have been pretty simplistic, and the Material Emancipation Grid makes sure the portals get reset after each level.

The last few chapters do seem a bit longer than the first few honestly. It goes from old-style Portal type puzzles, to all these new elements (light bridges, gels, t-beams or whatever they are called, etc) all mixed together. The levels themselves are generally very large, but they do generally take a bit of thinking and what not to work through. In terms of raw time spent, you will spend more time thinking and doing and less time loading in the later levels than you do in the first 4 chapters or so. The first few chapters fly by compared to the last few.

It mainly "slows down" when you get to the gels in the old factory area (or whatever you want to call it), the gels alone add a brand new element compared to the first game (the lasers are new, but not very different from the energy orbs in the first)...light bridges, while new, are quite easy to use, bridge goes in one portal and comes out another. Gel on the other hand, you need to use in the right places for it to be effective. One of the later gel levels actually took me about 5-10 minutes to finish, and I knew exactly what I had to do from the beginning, I just had a hard time getting the portals placed in a way that I could do it.

The only really wide open level so far is the Chapter I am on which is

The Escape

and it literally stops in between doors to load, or just right in the middle of the level itself, and does not even use elevators as the excuse to load. So it just totally breaks the immersion of the entire level. And actually in the Chapter I just mentioned I was on above, there are no elevators in between test chambers, just a pretty wide open back end. And there is also no Material Emancipation Grid. So why do my portals all of a sudden rest themselves just because the game had to load? Wherever I last left by Blue Portal, that is where my Blue Portal should be no? But that is not the case, at least from what I have seen, loading also wipes out the portals, which to me is a terrible inconsistency in the game itself.

Just feel the loading is terribly handled. Does not destroy the experience at all, just worth noting IMO.

I can understand where you are coming from, honestly, Valve should have put an Emancipation Grid before every load screen just to stay consistent. In terms of open levels, Chapter 6 (

The Fall

) is really where the levels open up a bit and start getting longer. It's also where you first start using the gel. There are still load screens between every portion, but generally speaking you spend more time in each section (space between load screens) than in the previous chapters, unless you already know the solution. I might actually do a speed run later knowing the solutions. One of the longest times I spent searching for a solution was during one of the gel-based puzzles. Granted I for some reason temporarily forgot I could portal from 1 platform to another, it still took me a few minutes to set up the solution (which was really stupid and easy) to actually finish it.

[Singh400]

Completed SP! Little bit too short, considering I paid ?30 for it. I fully expect some more levels (missing the advanced test chamers from the first game). They really need to fix the loading issue, it breaks the game up.

[Nicholas-c Veteran]

Completed SP! Little bit too short, considering I paid ?30 for it. I fully expect some more levels (missing the advanced test chamers from the first game). They really need to fix the loading issue, it breaks the game up.

Loading issues? How are they issues if they are meant to be there? Smaller levels = smooth running game, why bother keeping test chamber 1 loaded when your in 17?

One thing that annoys me is the inability to load specific levels like portal 1, a few times a mate has asked me "How do I solve this?" (he was playing it on my 360 earlier, his game and HDD) had to go play 4-5 test chambers into a chapter then he has already done it >.<

[D!ABOL!C]

One thing that annoys me is the inability to load specific levels like portal 1, a few times a mate has asked me "How do I solve this?" (he was playing it on my 360 earlier, his game and HDD) had to go play 4-5 test chambers into a chapter then he has already done it >.<

Exactly. I'm trying to an achievement for Chamber 10 and I have to load up chapter 2 and play all the way through the first 9 chambers to get to it. It would be nice to give you an option to choose specific test chambers after you have beaten the game.

[eviljedi]

I agree that the loading screens were excessive and annoying. I think it's a limit of the source engine that the maps can only be a certain size and there's nothing Valve can do about it until they program a new engine.

[Singh400]

Loading issues? How are they issues if they are meant to be there? Smaller levels = smooth running game, why bother keeping test chamber 1 loaded when your in 17?

Constant loading breaks up the game experience for me. They need to do background loading or something to reduce the amount of loading screens you get. I whizzed through most of the puzzles, it gets really annoying to have a load screen every 5 minutes. Especially in the latter levels where you are out of bounds, every other door seems to incur a load screen.

[rajputwarrior]

Completed SP! Little bit too short, considering I paid ?30 for it. I fully expect some more levels (missing the advanced test chamers from the first game). They really need to fix the loading issue, it breaks the game up.

i just finished it too and i loved it and I completely agree. i mentioned it earlier that gabe newell needs to be kicked in the balls for the amount of loading in this game and I stand by that statement. there is just way to much loading. something needs to be done about it or I guess it just may be a limitation of the old engine it's using. Games like this would really benefit with the seamless type of loading that halo does (which was able to do it on a last gen console nonetheless).

brilliant though, now hurr up larry so we can do co-op :p

[idioot]

the loadings are so short, though. don't have any problem with them :p

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

i just finished it too and i loved it and I completely agree. i mentioned it earlier that gabe newell needs to be kicked in the balls for the amount of loading in this game and I stand by that statement. there is just way to much loading. something needs to be done about it or I guess it just may be a limitation of the old engine it's using. Games like this would really benefit with the seamless type of loading that halo does (which was able to do it on a last gen console nonetheless).

brilliant though, now hurr up larry so we can do co-op :p

I got up to Chapter 7 last night, so I am almost there I think?

If not, I do not need to beat SP to play CoOp. Not really necessary, and I definitely want to play it with someone who has never played it before so we are both figuring it out together. In fact, not 100% sure about this, but I think tonight I may be able to play some CoOp, I think tonight is mainly my wifes night of TV so I can go upstairs and game on my PC. Will know a lot later on today, like when I get home, but there is a good chance.

[Nagisan]

I got up to Chapter 7 last night, so I am almost there I think?

If not, I do not need to beat SP to play CoOp. Not really necessary, and I definitely want to play it with someone who has never played it before so we are both figuring it out together. In fact, not 100% sure about this, but I think tonight I may be able to play some CoOp, I think tonight is mainly my wifes night of TV so I can go upstairs and game on my PC. Will know a lot later on today, like when I get home, but there is a good chance.

You might want to finish SP before you beat coop.....while coop doesn't have much of a story element to it, the ending cinematic does tie in a bit with what happens at the end of the SP campaign. It's not a huge tie in, but you could probably guess how SP ends based on the end of the coop. You might not have to worry much about it though, coop is pretty long overall....it took my friend and I about 3 nights to beat it at about 2-4 hours a night, depending on how long you play it, and how good at puzzle solving you and your partner are, you probably won't beat it in a single night.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

You might want to finish SP before you beat coop.....while coop doesn't have much of a story element to it, the ending cinematic does tie in a bit with what happens at the end of the SP campaign. It's not a huge tie in, but you could probably guess how SP ends based on the end of the coop. You might not have to worry much about it though, coop is pretty long overall....it took my friend and I about 3 nights to beat it at about 2-4 hours a night, depending on how long you play it, and how good at puzzle solving you and your partner are, you probably won't beat it in a single night.

Cool thanks for the heads up. (Y)

I would only have about 2 hours to play if I can indeed play, so as you said not much to worry about as far as beating it, at least speaking for myself :laugh: . The most important thing to me is playing the CoOp with someone who has also not played it so we both have fresh eyes so to speak, so if I take the risk of ruining some of the story in order to play with someone else who has not played it yet, I can live with that. But again thanks for the heads up, it is good to know.