My take on Linux as a 'newbeh'

[redvamp128]

There are a few things to say about Linux- (mostly generalizations and notes that people will argue about)

Linux Grew out of a need of a few users - to something that is now global.

It does have staying power-- like so many other other operating systems that have died out (BEos just as an example).

Would be an option for those people who maintain older systems in order to keep up with current web (people with low budget)

Can be ran LIVE without install especially to recover files from a borked Windows system-- either by Virus or Maleware. (to allow for a simple format and reinstall of Windows)

is less likely to actually get Maleware or Viruses....

Can run on much lower spec PC's without an issue where Windows would be totally unusable.

-

Though time and time again this is what I hear...

Windows does it this way then why does Linux do it that way?

Linux uses command line -- (which in most modern distributions there is virtually no need to even use it- just there as a backup or alternate way to install a program)

Though in the past I have actually had to install linux on 3 peoples computers until they could actually get a Valid Windows (Those 3 people had the FCKGW Pirated XP) Out of those 3 people 2 still run Linux to this day. The other person bought on a valid Windows CD.

[The_DINGUS]

To use your words...LAWL

http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

Anyways, who cares who has more users? Use what you want...I like Opera, and Linux. So...I use Opera and Linux. Yes, I have Windows 7 Pro. Which I have installed for when I want to play games. Otherwise, I use Linux.

People seem to get too caught up in market share...Just stop trying to convert people and making yourself look like an idiot.

It seems like Windows 7 fanboys are getting worse than other fanboys...

HA HA HA

The best you can counter with is some other site that says its actually a whopping 1.49% ???

EPIC

[ncc50446]

HA HA HA

The best you can counter with is some other site that says its actually a whopping 1.49% ???

EPIC

For 1...It is greater than 1%. For 2, you did read the rest of the message did you not? Maybe I'll paraphrase for you....

"Anyways, who cares who has more users?" And "It seems like Windows 7 fanboys are getting worse than other fanboys..."

[The_DINGUS]

So who says your shady source is more accurate? Linux is a disaster, educated PC users spit coffee on their monitors at the mere mention of installing GNU/Linux malware on their systems.

Decades of spam and crusading by Linux fans all over the internet and universities and today they can barely hold a 1% share against other OSs that aren't even free.

A true fact of life is: FOSS is worth exactly what you pay for it.

[Flawed]

So who says your shady source is more accurate? Linux is a disaster, educated PC users spit coffee on their monitors at the mere mention of installing GNU/Linux malware on their systems.

They are all inaccurate, that's the point. The number of GNU/Linux users could be an order of magnitude greater than the web statistics state. As mentioned, even Steve Balmer admitted to that being the case. The reality is, millions of individuals and businesses world wide run GNU/Linux systems. I'd say that alone is a measure of success.

Decades of spam and crusading by Linux fans all over the internet and universities and today they can barely hold a 1% share against other OSs that aren't even free.

You do realise that a 1% share represents tens of millions of users right? And isn't it hypocritical of you to criticise Linux users for evangelism when you yourself are doing the exact the same thing?

A true fact of life is: FOSS is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I guess that's why Microsoft's Windows 7 USB installation tool uses FOSS code and is released under the GPL? A tool that I and many others have used to install Windows 7 on machines.

[The_DINGUS]

And isn't it hypocritical of you to criticise Linux users for evangelism when you yourself are doing the exact the same thing?

I'm not criticizing their evangelism, I'm laughing at the total failure of it :laugh: .

[Mouldy Punk]

So who says your shady source is more accurate? Linux is a disaster, educated PC users spit coffee on their monitors at the mere mention of installing GNU/Linux malware on their systems.

Decades of spam and crusading by Linux fans all over the internet and universities and today they can barely hold a 1% share against other OSs that aren't even free.

A true fact of life is: FOSS is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Firstly, 'shady source' is not a phrase that is often associated with the W3C...y'know, the governing body of Internet standards. Secondly, I think a good point to be made from the statistics you provided and the statistics that someone else provided is that there's a significant difference between the two figures. You might think "who cares about 1%" - but considering we're talking about smaller fractions of a percent, that 1% changes the numbers drastically. The statistic provided by the W3C is 3 times what you've gathered...which gives a staggering margin for error and says a lot about the validity of all similar statistics. Maybe the 11% mac statistic (taken from the link you posted) is actually 3 times less than the real figured. That causes a jump to 33%. Windows 7 would go from 20% to a staggering 60%. The point I'm making is, all these statistics are fud and taking any of them as gospel is just ridiculous.

Let me finish this post with a popular quote that springs to mind;

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Statistics should be used to back up evidence from other sources. Evidence should not be created from statistics. The average human being has one boob and one testicle.

PS, I am aware I'm just 'feeding the troll' - but in the hope that this person is ignorant rather than irritating, hopefully they'll learn something

[Solid Knight]

I used Linux exclusively for roughly two years. There are a lot of things to like about it and for the first few months everything was great then I started to notice/get annoyed by little details (and the crashing).

For example: I don't normally edit videos but every once in a while somebody asks me to or I need to do some fairly basic editing. There's only a few tools for this job in Linux-land. In short, they all sucked (at the time, I don't know where they are at now). Things like this would pop up over and over and over again.

After waiting around I didn't see much visible progress in the deficiencies, but I did find impregnable fortresses defending the lack of progress, and that's what ultimately did me in. I didn't see things changing as the zealots were entrenched too deep. The ideology is just too rigid.

It's a shame though. Linux could have been great. It has a lot of advantages but at the same time the rigid ideology that surrounds it also cripples it.

[soldier1st]

I'm glad to hear you made the move. A basic join can by done by the 'cat file1 file2 > outputfile' command on the cli, but it really depends on what kind of files you're joining. If it's video files for example, they have to be processed differently. I don't know if there is a GUI version of cat, but Nautilus can be configured to run a custom command via Nautilus Actions. I use it myself to convert avi files to dpg for the nintendo DS.

I just did a quick test, and a simple shell script works. I just put this in it:

#!/bin/sh
echo "Joining $# files..."
cat $* > $1.output

paste that into join.sh, then run chmod +x join.sh on it, and finally, add it to Nautilus Actions like this:

Remember to select the "Appears if selection has multiple files or folders" option in the conditions tab. Then just select the files you want to concatenate in Nautilus, and select Join in the menu.

how do you do the chmod thingy?also the files i want to join are movie files like avi or mpeg/etc... i'm still learning Linux though i do write commands and stuff down if i need them.

[tomjol]

I used Linux exclusively for roughly two years. There are a lot of things to like about it and for the first few months everything was great then I started to notice/get annoyed by little details (and the crashing).

For example: I don't normally edit videos but every once in a while somebody asks me to or I need to do some fairly basic editing. There's only a few tools for this job in Linux-land. In short, they all sucked (at the time, I don't know where they are at now). Things like this would pop up over and over and over again.

After waiting around I didn't see much visible progress in the deficiencies, but I did find impregnable fortresses defending the lack of progress, and that's what ultimately did me in. I didn't see things changing as the zealots were entrenched too deep. The ideology is just too rigid.

It's a shame though. Linux could have been great. It has a lot of advantages but at the same time the rigid ideology that surrounds it also cripples it.

Could you expand on the ideology thing a bit?

Can't deny that you're right when it comes to certain types of applications - try finding a good one for watching TV from a tuner card, for example. The best I've found is to use Kaffeine's in-built support, but it's far from the quality of application you'd get on Windows or the Mac.

[Flawed]

how do you do the chmod thingy?also the files i want to join are movie files like avi or mpeg/etc... i'm still learning Linux though i do write commands and stuff down if i need them.

Literally, you just write: chmod +x join.sh . Although that's assuming you are in the same directory as the script. If you aren't, you can just type in part of the path and use the tab key to complete it for you, or just use the 'cd' command to change to the script directory. On the cli. The '+x' bit just makes the script executable (for security reasons, it's not enabled by default). If you don't want to use the cli, you can also make it executable by right clicking the file in nautilus, and selecting properties->permissions and checking the 'allow execute' box near the bottom. Although a simple 'cat' might work for mpeg files, some other formats such as avi, flv, wmv, mp4, and mov will probably encounter problems with a straight cat. This is usually due to headers in the files, which obviously don't match up after cat. There is a way to fix the headers though once you have done a cat on avi files. Just add this line to the bottom of the script:

mencoder -forceidx -oac copy -ovc copy $1.output -o $1.fix

the file with a .fix extension will be the combined avi file with a fixed header.

If you don't already have mencoder installed, just run: sudo apt-get install mencoder . You may also have to install Nautilus Actions. It can be done through the Ubuntu Software Centre, or on the cli: sudo apt-get install nautilus-actions . Then it can be found in the System->Preferences menu. Or as I prefer, just alt+f2 and type nautilus-actions-config-tool then hit enter.

[Flawed]

Can't deny that you're right when it comes to certain types of applications - try finding a good one for watching TV from a tuner card, for example. The best I've found is to use Kaffeine's in-built support, but it's far from the quality of application you'd get on Windows or the Mac.

I tend to use mplayer with dvb-t. It actually works much better than on windows.

[Xenomorph]

After using Linux for 14 years, I still feel it's garbage for Desktop users. There's a reason hardly anyone uses it (percentage-wise).

For Servers, it's great.

[Stingray]

Well, not so much a newbie as I've used it on and off for the last few years, but as a hardened Windows user.

I'm coming from Windows Seven and decided to set myself a challenge. Last 6 weeks in a Linux only environment. I'm currently 8 days in to my 'challenge' and it's looking far too easy!

I originally stuck Ubuntu 10.10 on as I had read pretty good things about it, and I had a flash drive laying around with an ISO on it. In less than half an hour I was up and running. The base system is 'alright'. Visually it's nowhere near as polished as Windows OOB - the good news is that's easily changed! With a mixture of Faenza Icons, a nice emerald theme and the elementary GTK theme things were looking pretty smart.

The system itself wasn't as snappy or quick as my previous Windows 7 installation, so that was my next 'challenge' - to try and speed things up. After some extensive Googling I had prelink installed and configured, swiftfox running, and a couple of other tweaks here and there. It was better but not as good as I was expecting. Eventually I ran across a plethora of forum posts with dissatisfied users of 10.10 having sluggish performance. The general consensus was to upgrade to the 2.3.36 kernel rather than the standard 2.3.35 that shipped with Ubuntu 10.10. This gave a HUGE increase to system performance, and finally allowed me to run 5+ VMs without any noticeable slow down. Some kind soul has also packaged the latest stable kernel files and headers into .deb files for easy installation on Ubuntu, although I compiled mine myself.

I now had a nice, stable and quick system that was a pleasure to use. However, I tried Linux Mint 10 out in Virtualbox the other day when it went gold, and I was rather impressed with the finish of it. I also had some niggles with my Ubuntu installation; for example I had just used one partition during install so I didn't have any swap space for hibernating, and my Home folder was on the same partition. I decided to start again from scratch with Linux Mint and rectify these points.

Linux Mint definitely seems quicker OOB than Ubuntu did - although I don't think it is quite on the same level as Windows 7. After applying the kernel update (Ubuntu's deb files for this will work on mint without problems) and various other tweaks I'm sure the speed of this system is now very much on par with Windows 7 - it certainly doesn't feel any slower in use. I guess that I'm quite lucky in that the only Windows specific software I 'need' is iTunes - so I can sync my iPod Touch - which I have running under VirtualBox with USB support. Everything else I can use native Linux apps for without issue.

I definitely think I will be using this system long term - to be honest I'm very impressed indeed with it. I have come to the conclusion (so far...) that people who try to use Linux (Windows users) are comparing it directly with Windows. For example; Linux didn't have this menu or that option, therefore it doesn't do what I want. Linux is not Windows and there will be a learning curve, but if users accept that I can see no issue with it being able to be adopted as a desktop OS for a lot of ordinary users.

Cool story, bro!

[cacoe]

I failed my challenge on day one. It all went ###### up when I tried to install Adobe CS5 and Lightroom.

[Solid Knight]

Could you expand on the ideology thing a bit?

Basically "make it GPL or don't bother at all" or purposely breaking compatibility with proprietary software. The guys who were writing the drivers for my multicard reader purposely left out support for Sony Memory Sticks simply because they thought it was "evil".

[Flawed]

I failed my challenge on day one. It all went ###### up when I tried to install Adobe CS5 and Lightroom.

Well if you looked at the wine app db site, you would see that CS5 support is limited. However, CS 1-4 (8.0-11.0) work fine.

[azure.sapphire]

I think it really comes down to one thing and only one thing for the majority of users. It is about the applications. There is nothing really fundamentally wrong with the Linux kernel, the GNU userland (for basic applications) or the UI (Gnome or KDE). What the focus needs to be is on applications. This is why OS X succeeded where GNU/Linux has not.

Some examples:

1). I want to be able to rip the latest DVDs and Blu-ray discs.

2). I want to be able to sync applications and data to my iPhone (without having to jailbreak it).

3). The only genealogy application I am aware of is GRAMPS. It's a big step down from something like Familytree Maker.

4). I would love to see a good CBR/CBZ reader (i.e. like Comicrack).

5). Where is the native version of Adobe Photoshop?

6). I sometimes play games on Steam, where is the native solution?

7). I manage some financial stuff with Quicken. Is their a Linux port (yet)?

8). Good APC software and reliable disk imaging software would be a benefit as well.

Apple has run an iPhone/iPod Touch commercial in which they claim there is a app for that. This may or may not be true. My opinion is that the iOS is a bit lacking. That, however, is neither here nor there. What Microsoft really should do as simply copy the phrase. In Windows there really is an app for "anything and everything."

The OS is simply a means for users to get to there applications. In the cloud computing solutions are still limited and primitive. Most users expect legacy applications on their desktop. This is something that so far GNU/Linux has failed to provide.

[Flawed]

1). I want to be able to rip the latest DVDs and Blu-ray discs.

DVD:rip, AcidRip, OGMRip, Thoggen. Those are just the ones I saw in the Ubuntu Software Centre. No doubt you can use mencoder, ffmpeg etc also.

2). I want to be able to sync applications and data to my iPhone (without having to jailbreak it).

Rhythmbox works out of the box with the iOS I believe, including version 4. Without jailbreaking.

3). The only genealogy application I am aware of is GRAMPS. It's a big step down from something like Familytree Maker.

GRAMPS is a really excellent genealogy program. How is it a step down from Familytree Maker exactly?

4). I would love to see a good CBR/CBZ reader (i.e. like Comicrack).

Comix ;)

5). Where is the native version of Adobe Photoshop?

The Gimp. And if that doesn't do it for you, then you can run CS1-CS4 in wine.

6). I sometimes play games on Steam, where is the native solution?

Ask Valve. There were rumours of a Linux version some time ago after the MAC edition was released, but I haven't heard anything since. I guess that's the problem with Proprietary software, you're at the mercy of a small group of developers.

7). I manage some financial stuff with Quicken. Is their a Linux port (yet)?

There are many good Linux alternatives; GNU Cash, Grisbi, Eqonomise, skrooge, and KMoney among just a few. You can also use the web client version of quicken, or run Quicken 2010 in wine, although it does require a few commands to get it working fully.

8). Good APC software and reliable disk imaging software would be a benefit as well.

APC: Network UPS Tools, Apcupsd. Imaging: ghost4linux, partimage, clonezilla, or dd ;)

Apple has run an iPhone/iPod Touch commercial in which they claim there is a app for that. This may or may not be true. My opinion is that the iOS is a bit lacking. That, however, is neither here nor there. What Microsoft really should do as simply copy the phrase. In Windows there really is an app for "anything and everything."

There's an app for everything in GNU/Linux too.

The OS is simply a means for users to get to there applications. In the cloud computing solutions are still limited and primitive. Most users expect legacy applications on their desktop. This is something that so far GNU/Linux has failed to provide.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Ubuntu has good built in cloud integration with Ubuntu One. There's even a cloud based distro called gOS. When you say legacy applications, are you referring to Windows applications? If so, then that's what wine is there for. A transitional tool for those who can't live without a windows app. But it's not meant as a permanent solution. For that, Linux alternatives should be sought.

[azure.sapphire]

DVD:rip, AcidRip, OGMRip, Thoggen.??Those are just the ones I saw in the Ubuntu Software Centre. No doubt you can use mencoder, ffmpeg etc also.??

Rhythmbox works out of the box with the iOS I believe, including version 4. Without jailbreaking.

GRAMPS is a really excellent genealogy program. How is it a step down from Familytree Maker exactly?

Comix ;)

The Gimp. And if that doesn't do it for you, then you can run CS1-CS4 in wine.

Ask Valve. There were rumours of a Linux version some time ago after the MAC edition was released, but I haven't heard anything since. I guess that's the problem with Proprietary software, you're at the mercy of a small group of developers.

There are many good Linux alternatives; GNU Cash, Grisbi, Eqonomise, skrooge, and KMoney among just a few. You can also use the web client version of quicken, or run Quicken 2010 in wine, although it does require a few commands to get it working fully.

APC: Network UPS Tools, Apcupsd. Imaging: ghost4linux, partimage, clonezilla, or dd ;)

There's an app for everything in GNU/Linux too.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Ubuntu has good built in cloud integration with Ubuntu One. There's even a cloud based distro called gOS. When you say legacy applications, are you referring to Windows applications? If so, then that's what wine is there for. A transitional tool for those who can't live without a windows app. But it's not meant as a permanent solution. For that, Linux alternatives should be sought.

1). I wasn't aware that they could rip the latest methods of anti-privacy (i.e. the CSS enhancements for DVDs). I??could be wrong on this.

2). Is this music or the ability to actually transfer applications that I purchased from my iTunes account? I don't??really care about music. I want to be able to transfer bookmarks and apps (with data) without wifi if possible.

3). will admit for basically a one guy project it is not bad. It, however, lacks many of the features of the latest??generation of genealogy programs. Still, there are other options like online genealogy with PHPged and Next??Generation Genealogy, which are almost as good and run on LAMP.

4). I don't think this app is as good, but it seems to be a pretty solid alternative. I probably could be happy??with this.

5). I don't like the GIMP. It works, but I just don't like it. Its too different. As for Photoshop under wine, yes??I know. I've had issues with plugins in the past, but maybe that has changed with the most recent version of wine.??Still, this is one area that GNU/Linux could benefit from. A good commercial venture from Adobe would be nice. I??could actually see myself paying full retail for the latest CS suite on Linux (if native).

6). This is a bit of a problem for Linux. It has pretty good emulation ports, but actually games are another story.??In fairness, most games have moved to consoles, but there still is Steam, MLK2k10 (don't laugh, its not that bad)??and DC Universe Online (when released).

7). I don't think they come close to Quicken. Again, running Quicken under wine kind of defeats the point. Still,??again there are a number of online alternatives outside of the usual applications.

8). Okay, but could be better. Not really a replacement for Powerchute (which is kind of native, but dated).

9). Again, they are fine options, but not as user friendly as something from Paragon and, or Acronis. I not really??thinking of most users when I post this, but rather my aunt or uncle who needs to backup their system. Exposure to??text and a CL will send them packing.

Overall, I would have to disagree with your assessment that there as many applications and of the same quality of those available on the Mac or Windows. Please don't take this as flame bait, I mean it simply as an honest opinion. Sure, there are a number of horrible applications out there for Windows, but the sheer volume and commercial backing of big vendors makes for better alternatives and more options. An example, what happens if I don't like GRAMPS. On Windows, if I don't like Family Tree Maker I've ?got a ton of options (Roots Magic, Legacy). On the Mac it is more limited but you still have Reunion/Mac Family ?Tree and a few others.?Many open source projects, while well intention, simply lack the detail of many commercial applications.?

Finally, on cloud computing... this (and handsets) is where Linux really has a chance. The trouble is that legacy applications are going to be here for the foreseeable future (more than a decade).? ?

[Solid Knight]

Yes, Linux does have applications for most everything but many of them are inferior to what you find on OS X and Windows. Take DVD Ripping for example from a convenience standpoint. There are tools on OS X and Windows where you can rip a DVD and have it encoded into a movie file with a click of a button. All the settings are handled automatically (although you can manually configure them). During my time with Linux I didn't find anything like this. Everything required specificity which meant I had to go and look up what all these stupid things were. Retarded, I don't give a **** about any of it. I just want a movie file with good quality. And I could do this with no research on Windows/OS X.

As an aside, the money management programs on Linux pale in comparison to what you can find on Windows and OS X especially when it comes to anything involving State/Federal fees and taxes.

[Flawed]

Yes, Linux does have applications for most everything but many of them are inferior to what you find on OS X and Windows. Take DVD Ripping for example from a convenience standpoint. There are tools on OS X and Windows where you can rip a DVD and have it encoded into a movie file with a click of a button. All the settings are handled automatically (although you can manually configure them). During my time with Linux I didn't find anything like this. Everything required specificity which meant I had to go and look up what all these stupid things were. Retarded, I don't give a **** about any of it. I just want a movie file with good quality. And I could do this with no research on Windows/OS X.

Clearly you didn't see my previous post. I listed four applications there which can rip a DVD to an avi/movie file. They are free, and can be found in the Ubuntu Software Centre. You can't get any easier than that. If you had spent any time in Linux, you would know this. Clearly you haven't.

As an aside, the money management programs on Linux pale in comparison to what you can find on Windows and OS X especially when it comes to anything involving State/Federal fees and taxes.

I listed many native personal money manager applications, and Quicken 2010 that can run in wine. I'm sorry, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you actually use Linux before condemning it.

[Farstrider]

Clearly you didn't see my previous post. I listed four applications there which can rip a DVD to an avi/movie file. They are free, and can be found in the Ubuntu Software Centre. You can't get any easier than that. If you had spent any time in Linux, you would know this. Clearly you haven't.

I listed many native personal money manager applications, and Quicken 2010 that can run in wine. I'm sorry, but you really have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you actually use Linux before condemning it.

I had prepared a huge post with answers to the absolutely ridicules assertions that he makes in his post! As I was about to hit the reply button I thought to get into a debate with a person who, as you rightly point out, has probably never really used a Linux operating system for any real length of time, I would be wasting my "breath"! I have seen the way he argues his point in many threads that concern Linux [Other threads as well!] and to try and tell him otherwise would be like trying to fart against thunder! Sorry if this is going to offend him but that's the way I see it!

[tomjol]

Yes, Linux does have applications for most everything but many of them are inferior to what you find on OS X and Windows. Take DVD Ripping for example from a convenience standpoint. There are tools on OS X and Windows where you can rip a DVD and have it encoded into a movie file with a click of a button. All the settings are handled automatically (although you can manually configure them). During my time with Linux I didn't find anything like this. Everything required specificity which meant I had to go and look up what all these stupid things were. Retarded, I don't give a **** about any of it. I just want a movie file with good quality. And I could do this with no research on Windows/OS X.

As an aside, the money management programs on Linux pale in comparison to what you can find on Windows and OS X especially when it comes to anything involving State/Federal fees and taxes.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought Handbrake was available for Linux. What's that? It is? And this guy's talking ****? No way!

[cacoe]

The Gimp. And if that doesn't do it for you, then you can run CS1-CS4 in wine.

Compared to Photoshop, The Gimp is a joke, and not to mention, there are a whole host of other Adobe applications that are also not compatible.

On top of that, you're saying, if you want to use old software, Linux is the way forward.

On a side note, why did all my stars just light up green

Ohhh, 1337. LOL!