My take on Linux as a 'newbeh'

[Flawed]

Compared to Photoshop, The Gimp is a joke

That's just not true. I often hear the same thing from people who have never really used it. It has great functionality. Please name one thing you do on a regular basis that The Gimp can not? Or are you just berating the UI because it's different from CS?

and not to mention, there are a whole host of other Adobe applications that are also not compatible.

Again, if you want to use Linux, use Linux software.

On top of that, you're saying, if you want to use old software, Linux is the way forward.

No, I'm saying wine is a transitional tool for those just beginning to use Linux, who come from a Windows background. It's not a permanent solution. The objective should be to seek GNU/Linux alternative applications, such as The Gimp, which does a fine job with advanced image editing, and is more than enough for most people. And I wouldn't call CS4 that old. It's was released in 2008. The newest version is only one ahead. How many people still use MS Office 2007? 2004? Plenty would be my guess.

[4CxbqFxVnstmA Veteran]

<snipped>

You're right there, Flawed. But I can't help thinking you're wasting your effort trying to explain things to people who don't know and don't want to know. I agree with Farstrider that it's just not worth it. :rolleyes:

[redvamp128]

That is a good question--

Why use Windows software on Linux?

Do you use Windows software on a Mac?

Mac software on a PC?

Yet the bulk of the complaints are that it won't run them.

Even though with the latest developments in wine you can run most Windows software.

[TDT]

I am using Linux from time to time, mostly Mint, just to play around and stuff, because I can't really make it my primary OS. I came to one conclusion: if you're a Windows user (many years), it's useless to try and switch to Linux. The experience will NEVER be the same, and I'm talking about all the apps that you're used to in Win. I, for example, couldn't get used to Pidgin, after many years of using YM (and Digsby, recently). It's way too....weird. Also, a "Wined" app it's not the same as a native one, and neither is a VM. You have to make a lot of compromises and it's not a way to go for me. My take on Linux? Nice try, but way too poor for an OS these days. For a normal user's OS that is. And I have a feeling that this won't ever change, no matter how much effort those developers put into popular Linux distros.

[Solid Knight]

Clearly you didn't see my previous post. I listed four applications there which can rip a DVD to an avi/movie file. They are free, and can be found in the Ubuntu Software Centre. You can't get any easier than that. If you had spent any time in Linux, you would know this. Clearly you haven't.

Oh yes, you can get them from the repository so that automatically makes the software the most convenient to use. Why mention they are free? Did I say they weren't? Why mention where you install them from? Did I make a comment about how you couldn't find any at all? I think the point in my post was very clear. Only one of you bothered to offer an actual rebuttal (Handbrake being available on Linux). Congrats to that guy. He can not only read but comprehend as well.

Regarding Handbrake: awesome, that's a good program. During my time with Linux (two years from 2006-2008) it was available but as a CLI only. At one point somebody made a GUI for it but the GUI was broken when the distros.

[JonathanVP]

If you want a real challenge, try installing a source based linux distro like Gentoo into VMware workstation in Win 7. This project has preoccupied me for the past week! Even though I have installed Gentoo Linux in the past, downloading, compiling and fine tuning the kernel, and setting up everything from scratch makes you really learn linux! Not to mention the fact that running everyting in a VM adds another level of complexity...but it's fun!

[azure.sapphire]

If you want a real challenge, try installing a source based linux distro like Gentoo into VMware workstation in Win 7. This project has preoccupied me for the past week! Even though I have installed Gentoo Linux in the past, downloading, compiling and fine tuning the kernel, and setting up everything from scratch makes you really learn linux! Not to mention the fact that running everyting in a VM adds another level of complexity...but it's fun!

Why not just do a LFS install?

[cacoe]

Adobe applications are some of the industries standard in many areas. Why? Because they're the best. I have used The Gimp before, and it's interface is a nightmare to the point where it has a side project to make it's interface similar to that of Photoshop.

I've been using Photoshop for about 11 years now, and most people in media industries have been using it for even longer. How long do you think our "transition period" will take to get to the same standard that it's at now?

I think the real question here should be, how would switching to Linux positively effect me? Not even in the short term, but the long term.

I honestly can't think of many ways. I feel like Linux is a mirage of choice, all the choices are of poor quality.

Hey, if I really wanted to use The Gimp, I could already do that on windows anyway. I don't attribute that to Linux being great, it's down to the devs of the software in question. On the flip side of this, even if Adobe software were available and support on Linux, what advantage do I hold now? Again, none because it's just an OS! If I can get all of the same stuff done either way, then why should I waste weeks learning a new OS? (for which I have done a couple of times to be honest and have had nothing but headaches)

A move to Linux for me would mean a lot of wasted time.

[Kreuger]

I came to one conclusion: if you're a Windows user (many years), it's useless to try and switch to Linux. The experience will NEVER be the same, and I'm talking about all the apps that you're used to in Win.

Speak for yourself. I've been using Windows (still do some places, even have Win7 dual boot on my laptop) but I've been using Linux just fine for the past 5 years as my main OS and my experience while troublesome in the beginning is now just as good as it could be with Windows. I found alternatives that suit my needs just fine. I won't get into the rest of the debate in here though because it's just pointless. Everyone can keep their opinions as long as they don't try to pass them off as a fact like you have.

Edit: And for people who complain about The Gimp's interface, try GimpShop. It's supposed to make The Gimp look like Photoshop (menu layouts and everything).

[cacoe]

It's not just the interface to be honest with the gimp is it?

The fact that it doesn't have 16bit image support, never mind 32bit is simply a joke if you're trying to convince a professional/enthusiast to switch over.

[TDT]

Speak for yourself. I've been using Windows (still do some places, even have Win7 dual boot on my laptop) but I've been using Linux just fine for the past 5 years as my main OS and my experience while troublesome in the beginning is now just as good as it could be with Windows. I found alternatives that suit my needs just fine. I won't get into the rest of the debate in here though because it's just pointless. Everyone can keep their opinions as long as they don't try to pass them off as a fact like you have.

Edit: And for people who complain about The Gimp's interface, try GimpShop. It's supposed to make The Gimp look like Photoshop (menu layouts and everything).

Dude, are you blind?! :blink: I said "I came to one conclusion", I didn't say "hey idiots, you should follow my opinion or die". Learn to read.

[sanctified Veteran]

It has great functionality. Please name one thing you do on a regular basis that The Gimp can not?

Real precise color management for my photographs (And Im not talking just about color profiles).

No image support beyond 8bit images.

Actions are more robust than Scripts.

Content aware tools.

OnOne photo tools.

[Farstrider]

Real precise color management for my photographs (And Im not talking just about color profiles).

No image support beyond 8bit images.

Actions are more robust than Scripts.

Content aware tools.

OnOne photo tools.

I know absolutely bugger all about these sort of things but as far as I can see GIMP 2.6 and the newer versions that are still on their way are doing quite a few things differently. babl is a support library for GEGL which provides a generic way to deal with color space conversions. This is done by abstracting the fundamental color operations so that GEGL does not have to be as aware of them. Through babl GEGL provides an optimized and powerful [optionally with SIMD support] treatment of arbitrary color data; This enables dependant applications to efficiently support a wide range of color spaces [from 8-bit RGB to full floating point CMYK] with minimal extra application code. There is definitely support for 32 bits per color channel and as an aside the new GEGL-based backend, polygonal and sectional selection [can be turned on and off in the preferences] with the Free Select Tool.

[cacoe]

I know absolutely bugger all about these sort of things but as far as I can see GIMP 2.6 and the newer versions that are still on their way are doing quite a few things differently. babl is a support library for GEGL which provides a generic way to deal with color space conversions. This is done by abstracting the fundamental color operations so that GEGL does not have to be as aware of them. Through babl GEGL provides an optimized and powerful [optionally with SIMD support] treatment of arbitrary color data; This enables dependant applications to efficiently support a wide range of color spaces [from 8-bit RGB to full floating point CMYK] with minimal extra application code. There is definitely support for 32 bits per color channel and as an aside the new GEGL-based backend, polygonal and sectional selection [can be turned on and off in the preferences] with the Free Select Tool.

Ladies and Gentleman, I present you the quintessential example of why most people will avoid Linux.

[ViperAFK]

Ladies and Gentleman, I present you the quintessential example of why most people will avoid Linux.

:laugh:

[Growled Member]

I won't get into the rest of the debate in here though because it's just pointless. Everyone can keep their opinions as long as they don't try to pass them off as a fact like you have.

Yeah, different stokes for different folks. Not everyone needs Photoshop but for those who do, Windows is the better choice. For everyone else, Linux might be a better choice. It depends on what you need. One choice is not right for everyone.

[Flawed]

Adobe applications are some of the industries standard in many areas. Why? Because they're the best. I have used The Gimp before, and it's interface is a nightmare to the point where it has a side project to make it's interface similar to that of Photoshop.

It's as I expected. You're just criticising the UI because it's different to PS. In terms of features and functionality, it's on par with PS for the majority of people.

I've been using Photoshop for about 11 years now, and most people in media industries have been using it for even longer. How long do you think our "transition period" will take to get to the same standard that it's at now?

Which explains your entrenched attitude. I have yet to find anyone who can make an argument against The Gimp on a feature by feature basis. It's mostly just Windows fanatics berating the UI because it's not exactly the same as PS. The same argument is now used, if you can believe it, against OpenOffice because it doesn't have the ribbon UI. lol

I think the real question here should be, how would switching to Linux positively effect me? Not even in the short term, but the long term.

Cost, compatibility, standards compliance, long term savings of virus/malware free systems, performance, efficiency. The list goes on.

I honestly can't think of many ways. I feel like Linux is a mirage of choice, all the choices are of poor quality.

Okay, at this point I'll take the advice of others and stop feeding the troll.

[Flawed]

Real precise color management for my photographs (And Im not talking just about color profiles).

The Gimp 2.6.2 has great advanced colour management tools.

No image support beyond 8bit images.

With version 2.6, The gimp now uses the GEGL backend. By default the legacy 8bit code paths are still used, but high bit-depth and non-destructive editing can be activated with Colors / Use GEGL.

Actions are more robust than Scripts.

If you don't like scripts, then you can use the Photoshop Actions Plugin for The Gimp ;)

Content aware tools.

The Gimp has had content aware fill long before PS.

OnOne photo tools.

This isn't Photoshop, it's a 3rd party addon. And I couldn't say with any certainty what it even does.

And finally, what no one ever mentions here, is that Adobe Photoshop retails for around $450, while The Gimp is free! I think for the features you get, it's more than a worthy replacement for Photoshop, for all but the most critical image professionals.

[sanctified Veteran]

The Gimp 2.6.2 has great advanced colour management tools.

With version 2.6, The gimp now uses the GEGL backend. By default the legacy 8bit code paths are still used, but high bit-depth and non-destructive editing can be activated with Colors / Use GEGL.

If you don't like scripts, then you can use the Photoshop Actions Plugin for The Gimp ;)

The Gimp has had content aware fill long before PS.

This isn't Photoshop, it's a 3rd party addon. And I couldn't say with any certainty what it even does.

And finally, what no one ever mentions here, is that Adobe Photoshop retails for around $450, while The Gimp is free! I think for the features you get, it's more than a worthy replacement for Photoshop, for all but the most critical image professionals.

Believe me, after a year of using both Gimp on my Ubuntu computer and Photoshop:

1.- Gimp color management is light years behind Photoshop's for professional photo printing.

2.- About GEGL, didnt know that, still I remembered having problems with 16bit tiff images on the Gimp beta channel 2.7.x (Maybe a beta problem?)

3.- The Gimp content aware plugins are... not very aware of the content.

I know Gimp is free, but in reality, all the tweaks my images would require from the printshop because my images are not up to standards will cost me more than a Photoshop license.

[Flawed]

2.- About GEGL, didnt know that, still I remembered having problems with 16bit tiff images on the Gimp beta channel 2.7.x (Maybe a beta problem?)

Colours->Use GEGL menu item.

[cacoe]

Considering Gimp has always been free, it's impressive but it's no photoshop. I'd rather use paint shop pro or even painter over the gimp, both of which have very different interfaces.

OnOne photo tools.

And for that matter, lets not forget photoshop plugins in general. The Nik software suite anyone?

Which explains your entrenched attitude. I have yet to find anyone who can make an argument against The Gimp on a feature by feature basis. It's mostly just Windows fanatics berating the UI because it's not exactly the same as PS. The same argument is now used, if you can believe it, against OpenOffice because it doesn't have the ribbon UI. lol

Actually, I'd love a really compelling alternative to Photoshop be released, but it would need to match Photoshop's features and surpass them in some way. This would promote a more cometition too, the photoshop releases are becoming a little tiresome, with just a hand full of big new features for a selected group of people. The Photoshop UI has become fairly bloated over time but it is still manageable. Having said that, many things could be done to make it more intuitive. I agree that the only reason I use it so well is because of the time I've put into it, but that doesn't mean I will indefinitely and blindly stick to it. It is the best option at the moment.

Let's add on all of this that Photoshop is (whether you like it or not) the industry standard in many areas. It's formats highly supported, it has great integration with all of the other Adobe apps and it's very easy to find training for. Imagine going into a photography studio editor/retoucher job interview with 11 years experience with the gimp under your belt. They might love what you've done but they already have a Photoshop workflow set in stone. Remember, that while you like being inside a bubble, the rest of the world is out there, getting on with it, and at the moment they're all using Photoshop.

[cacoe]

for all but the most critical image professionals.

And wtf? My whole point has been about professionals and enthusiasts! I never said it's not good for free, and good for users who want to tweak their images, who can't afford Photoshop, or need it's toolset! I mean people have been trying to push the idea of using the Gimp on me and I run my own wedding photography studio. BTW, the quality of gimp raw integration and quality leaves something to be desired.

I think we can all agree that Gimp is good for free. GimpShop is good for people who like MDI apps. GIMP is not a replacement for imaging professionals.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Thread Cleaned

There's no need for name-calling (yes, "troll" counts). Simply report a post that you feel is unacceptable.

[Udedenkz]

I recently installed Ubuntu 10.10 and I have to say, I still have no bloody idea how to enable video acceleration.

I have installed the drivers and downloaded the codecs - this is all that is needed for W7.

The Media Player doesn't seem to have any options relating to this, unlike in WMP.

[Flawed]

I recently installed Ubuntu 10.10 and I have to say, I still have no bloody idea how to enable video acceleration.

I have installed the drivers and downloaded the codecs - this is all that is needed for W7.

The Media Player doesn't seem to have any options relating to this, unlike in WMP.

glxinfo | grep rendering