Opera 11.00 Beta 1

[Denis W. Veteran]

I know some people here were waiting for LastPass support. It's here:

https://addons.labs.opera.com/addons/extensions/details/lastpass/1.70.13/?display=en

[Denis W. Veteran]

Something also to consider for an upcoming snapshot leading up to the final:

http://twitter.com/#!/opvard/status/7557472231366656

Could very well be hardware acceleration as they're trying to get it to work cross platform (not just the desktop browsers, but on Mobile and Mini).

[lnmnky]

Is it possible to lose the title bar on Ubuntu Linux and XP?

[Chaltalian]

Not saying that Opera 11 needs a new UI, but will they be bringing a new UI to Opera 11?

[PreKe]

Want an example of how bad non-standard widgets can look? Try this from a mere three years ago:

That doesn't look like standard Opera anything.

Seems to be the most effective Opera marketing campaign yet, why hasn't Opera done this until now? :p

What makes you think Opera hasn't done similar things in the past?

[PreKe]

I'm ignoring the obvious bugs in the tab stacks because it's a new feature but bugs that have been in existence for some time and then fixed for a while then break again aren't a good sign.

What bugs are you referring to? If you think regressions are uncommon in software, you are a bit out of touch :D

We know Opera have multiple branches of code and work on features / bug fixes separate to what they release so it points to bad source code management when bugs get unfixed.

They obviously can't fix all bugs. No software is bug free. That isn't because of "bad source code management", but because software is complex stuff. Especially browsers. And especially something like Opera, which has a million different ways to configure things, so when you make a change, it can have unintended consequences.

[ArKeYa]

Is it possible to lose the title bar on Ubuntu Linux and XP?

I believe it is.

Try the toggle button from here.

[Quillz]

Not saying that Opera 11 needs a new UI, but will they be bringing a new UI to Opera 11?

I don't think so. Usually by a beta release, there are some signs of any major UI changes.

[lamminium]

I'm thoroughly impressed. Using the beta as I type this. :)

[Neoauld]

I dont like how NoAds requires a manual preference change...it might hurt its popularity among 'noobs'...i wonder if thats a flaw in opera itself?

[ViperAFK]

I dont like how NoAds requires a manual preference change...it might hurt its popularity among 'noobs'...i wonder if thats a flaw in opera itself?

No I think it's just a poorly written extension. Opera's extension system is supposed to be slightly more powerful than chrome's, I am sure a proper adblock is possible. The no ads extension is a glorified userJS.

Also, good news! Some new features people have been suggesting are definitely being added to tab stacks:

Currently, tab stacking is not very fleshed out. There will be some fixes for the 11.0 final, but bigger things may be added after that.

The latest internal build now always adds links opened in a new tab to the current stack, or if there is just a single tab, it creates a stack containing the original and the new tab. I'm not sure if always adding links opened in a new tab to a stack is the right thing to do, but I really liked that semi-automatic creating of stacks during my testing. After all, links opened in a new tab are usually related to the tab they were opened from, so it makes sense to group them. And when I open a new and unrelated site, I almost always create a new tab (Ctrl+T) anyway. This is a bit like the "Automatic grouping by original tab" option in the first post.

We've also been thinking about grouping tabs automatically when a certain threshold of tabs is reached (minimum number + minimum width or something like that), or perhaps asking the user (because things happening automatically without user control could be confusing).

Grouping by domain and by type (mail, chat, and so on) are two possible ways to do automatic grouping.

There is also some talk about integration with sessions, bookmarks, and so on.

We will want to keep it simple and easy to use, though.

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=816122&t=1290661722&page=1#comment7816532

[Mike]

^ Sounds good, as long as the speed dial doesn't open the links in 1 tab :p Would be nice for the middle click action to open out of the stack too.

From what I can tell, when closing tabs it'll stay in the stack which is a good thing as the tabs in the stack are all related so you would want to "cycle" through them

[lnmnky]

I wonder if it'll get to the point where you can customise too much with Opera.

It's great to give people the option to remove or tweak one or two things, but when you can allow the user to basically redesign the browser it can be a little overwhelming.

Also, when I start on a new PC I have to start all over again (with the exception of bookmarks).

The point I'm trying to make is that no Opera is the same. There's little in common between my install and another. It's not like I could say "Oh cool, Opera. I'll use that". It's more like "Oh damn, that's your Opera, I can't find anything."

I wonder if there are too many bad ideas in Opera to make the good points shine. People ask "What's this do? What's that? This looks overwhelming... I'll use IE because it's always that same, and it's simple. "

When you give people too much freedom, it turns to chaos.

(PS: I've used Opera as a web developer on and off since 1999, and used it as a default since 9. But it has to come to a point where you lock people down and decide what to keep and what to chuck)

(Also, I've made up the quotes, no one has said that to me, but it's how I've felt sometimes)

[cropcircles]

I was taking a look at it yesterday. Not quite sure what advantage stacking tabs is for when Ii can open as many as I need now to have open. Somebody also mentioned the width of speed dial. Did you mean the boxes or how many you can add.?

[Nagisan]

What makes you think Opera hasn't done similar things in the past?

They may have, I have been using Opera since 9 and do not recall them doing anything similar to this since 9 released.

I was taking a look at it yesterday. Not quite sure what advantage stacking tabs is for when Ii can open as many as I need now to have open.

Organization. It depends how many tabs you have open, you obviously only need a few amount of tabs, but people like myself (who open many tabs, like >20) will be able to stack similar tabs together so we can keep track of where tabs are. For instance, if I have 5 Neowin tabs open and 30 total tabs, it can be a bit confusing to find a specific Neowin tab, with stacking, I can go to my Neowin stack, then pick the specific one I want out of 5 instead of out of 30.

[x-byte]

I wonder if it'll get to the point where you can customise too much with Opera.

It's great to give people the option to remove or tweak one or two things, but when you can allow the user to basically redesign the browser it can be a little overwhelming.

Also, when I start on a new PC I have to start all over again (with the exception of bookmarks).

The point I'm trying to make is that no Opera is the same. There's little in common between my install and another. It's not like I could say "Oh cool, Opera. I'll use that". It's more like "Oh damn, that's your Opera, I can't find anything."

I wonder if there are too many bad ideas in Opera to make the good points shine. People ask "What's this do? What's that? This looks overwhelming... I'll use IE because it's always that same, and it's simple. "

When you give people too much freedom, it turns to chaos.

(PS: I've used Opera as a web developer on and off since 1999, and used it as a default since 9. But it has to come to a point where you lock people down and decide what to keep and what to chuck)

(Also, I've made up the quotes, no one has said that to me, but it's how I've felt sometimes)

I can agree with you on some level. But I don't think there is a big problem with new users. For the most case they wont notice those settings (if you aren't a power user). I like that they do mix things around a little, because that gives me the excuse to try something new.

[inferniac]

I wonder if it'll get to the point where you can customise too much with Opera.

It's great to give people the option to remove or tweak one or two things, but when you can allow the user to basically redesign the browser it can be a little overwhelming.

Also, when I start on a new PC I have to start all over again (with the exception of bookmarks).

The point I'm trying to make is that no Opera is the same. There's little in common between my install and another. It's not like I could say "Oh cool, Opera. I'll use that". It's more like "Oh damn, that's your Opera, I can't find anything."

I wonder if there are too many bad ideas in Opera to make the good points shine. People ask "What's this do? What's that? This looks overwhelming... I'll use IE because it's always that same, and it's simple. "

When you give people too much freedom, it turns to chaos.

(PS: I've used Opera as a web developer on and off since 1999, and used it as a default since 9. But it has to come to a point where you lock people down and decide what to keep and what to chuck)

(Also, I've made up the quotes, no one has said that to me, but it's how I've felt sometimes)

That's one of the things I love about Opera and hate about Chrome (where there are like 10 user accesible settings overall). Besides if most of the settings are hidden in opera:config I don't think it is confusing for average users out there.

[-KJ]

Got my gestures working again by lowering the Gesture threshold to 2.

opera:config#UserPrefs|GestureThreshold

[Denis W. Veteran]

Also, when I start on a new PC I have to start all over again (with the exception of bookmarks).

Wouldn't it be nice if one day they'll sync your toolbar/keyboard/mouse/etc setups over Opera Link...

[HawkMan]

Or in the meantime you could just backup the opera profile folder...

[Denis W. Veteran]

It's also useful if your profile goes corrupt somehow :p

A few months ago I had to clear out my profile folders as one of the snapshots would crash repeatedly on start.

[PreKe]

I don't think so. Usually by a beta release, there are some signs of any major UI changes.

I'd say that the address bar changes are pretty major even if they only cover a small part of the UI.

They may have, I have been using Opera since 9 and do not recall them doing anything similar to this since 9 released.

They are doing stuff all the time. They have quite a few successful viral videos on YouTube with millions of views, for example.

[PreKe]

It's great to give people the option to remove or tweak one or two things, but when you can allow the user to basically redesign the browser it can be a little overwhelming.

That you can do something doesn't mean that you have to do it.

The point I'm trying to make is that no Opera is the same. There's little in common between my install and another.

I don't think most people do much customization, actually. So this isn't really a big deal.

I wonder if there are too many bad ideas in Opera to make the good points shine.

Bad ideas? You are assuming that because it's possible to do all sorts of stuff, everyone will do it. That's a fallacy. The bad ideas are in your head because you are making too many assumptions.

[Oz.]

Not saying that Opera 11 needs a new UI, but will they be bringing a new UI to Opera 11?

Will be nice a new UI :D

[lnmnky]

The bad ideas are in your head because you are making too many assumptions.

Fridge

widgets

unite

web server

bit torrent client

All of the above are not needed in a web browser. I don't care that they use zero resources. I care that they take up a place on the screen/menus/config on a fresh install and they have options that I can mess with. I don't want to see them at any point.