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Lovell    280

As you said by the time she's lvl 11 (9 range every level) Trist starts to take over Cait.

The problem with Cait late game is she has to start relying on her team and the second the other team buys more health and armour it just seem as if most of her damage disappears and she doesn't have a build that really connects with her unlike Ashe and her crits etc.

But Caits early game is amazing Cait out ranges everyone else till lvl 11 Trist and is one of the best early game DPS, piltover peacemaker does 85 damage at lvl 1 and has a 10 second CD vs Ashes volley which does 40 DMG and has a 20 second CD, and if you buy Armour pen + DMG quints she does around 110 damage at level 1 and can dominate any lane, Caits 100 extra range really comes in to play when your able to harass enemy champions and deny them creeps by there own tower.

Ashe is one of the best late game carries when she finally gets her crits, while I like Cait I do think it'd be a bit overpowered if she could dominate Early, mid and late but Cait can still do a lot of DMG and still has the ability to escape or kill an escaping champion.

Finding a build with Cait is hard I've been trying more AS which seems to help her more late game but also takes away an extra item which you don't have to do with the others.

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killmaster84    41

My general item build for Irelia I have the masteries set up for the jungle.

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Emn1ty    3,978

I have two builds.

Tank (something along these lines): http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Irelia/?items=27,28,105,36,117,62&level=18

And Burst/Lifesteal: http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Irelia/?items=66,28,106,117,106,44&level=18 (if I get enough gold possibly put one cutlass into a hextech)

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Tharp Daddy    25

As you said by the time she's lvl 11 (9 range every level) Trist starts to take over Cait.

The problem with Cait late game is she has to start relying on her team and the second the other team buys more health and armour it just seem as if most of her damage disappears and she doesn't have a build that really connects with her unlike Ashe and her crits etc.

But Caits early game is amazing Cait out ranges everyone else till lvl 11 Trist and is one of the best early game DPS, piltover peacemaker does 85 damage at lvl 1 and has a 10 second CD vs Ashes volley which does 40 DMG and has a 20 second CD, and if you buy Armour pen + DMG quints she does around 110 damage at level 1 and can dominate any lane, Caits 100 extra range really comes in to play when your able to harass enemy champions and deny them creeps by there own tower.

Ashe is one of the best late game carries when she finally gets her crits, while I like Cait I do think it'd be a bit overpowered if she could dominate Early, mid and late but Cait can still do a lot of DMG and still has the ability to escape or kill an escaping champion.

Finding a build with Cait is hard I've been trying more AS which seems to help her more late game but also takes away an extra item which you don't have to do with the others.

My build i played with yesterday had me doing fine late game. I could kill most champions very, very quickly if they did not run. My build was: Doran's blade, beserker boots, 2nd Doran's blade, pihlo stone (sell later, good for gold and mana when cait has mana problems), bloodthirster, phantom dancer, black cleaver, infinity edge, banshee (defensive item), and then sell the pihlo and build depending on their comp. I ended up building a madreds and i had a 2.0 attack speed, i was hitting for nearly 400, and my crit was around 60%, which did a ton of damage if her passive was on. The only problem was that i was extremely squishy, but i just hid behind my tank.

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Nagisan    248

I can't decide if I should unlock any other hero before Kat.....I have Master Yi, Nasus and Tristana...I really enjoy Kat, but I tend to do best with her when playing with friends who know how to counter my weaknesses.....I can solo with her pretty well, and she gets really powerful when played right, but I almost want something different or better at laning/controlling. The warwick bot seems to get really powerful, and I think it would be fun, but I don't want to waste IP on a champion without playing it first. And half my current champions are carry classes (Yi/Trist), Nasus is really the only good solo champ I have, but he requires a bit of feeding to help build his siphon skill to be effective and he doesn't really have any control or chase abilities. Warwick on the other hand seems really powerful on his own with good chase abilities (speed buff when enemies are below 50% health, with a good leap ability that does nice damage, and a lot of health normally) but again I haven't played with him so I don't want to waste IP.

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Tharp Daddy    25

I can't decide if I should unlock any other hero before Kat.....I have Master Yi, Nasus and Tristana...I really enjoy Kat, but I tend to do best with her when playing with friends who know how to counter my weaknesses.....I can solo with her pretty well, and she gets really powerful when played right, but I almost want something different or better at laning/controlling. The warwick bot seems to get really powerful, and I think it would be fun, but I don't want to waste IP on a champion without playing it first. And half my current champions are carry classes (Yi/Trist), Nasus is really the only good solo champ I have, but he requires a bit of feeding to help build his siphon skill to be effective and he doesn't really have any control or chase abilities. Warwick on the other hand seems really powerful on his own with good chase abilities (speed buff when enemies are below 50% health, with a good leap ability that does nice damage, and a lot of health normally) but again I haven't played with him so I don't want to waste IP.

In a few days (hopefully) the next rotation of champions will be out. If you can wait that long Warwick or such might be in the rotation, or a champion that you are interested in.

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Nagisan    248

In a few days (hopefully) the next rotation of champions will be out. If you can wait that long Warwick or such might be in the rotation, or a champion that you are interested in.

I know, the current rotation kinda sucks......none of them really interest me much.....if anything Kennan is the only one that interests me, but he's another carry/less useful for laning champ, and I already have enough of those. Hopefully the next rotation has warwick or some others similar to him.

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Tharp Daddy    25

I know, the current rotation kinda sucks......none of them really interest me much.....if anything Kennan is the only one that interests me, but he's another carry/less useful for laning champ, and I already have enough of those. Hopefully the next rotation has warwick or some others similar to him.

As far as 3150 champions go for laning power Cho'Gath is a pretty strong pick. With his knock up and silence it's fairly easy to harass. If you like support Karma is also an extremely powerful laner - as you get her ult at level 1 and her shield can make harassing easy, as well as her heal. Warwick is quite a fun champion, and I can easily carry games with him if i get mid. If you end up getting warwick i can pass my secret midwick build onto you - it dominates.

Speaking of Karma: I bought her yesterday and DAMN she is fun. Her shield and knives do a great amount of damage, and by late game her shield is easily absorbing 800 with a 6 second cooldown. I don't know why so few people play her, she hits hard, and supports well.

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Nagisan    248

As far as 3150 champions go for laning power Cho'Gath is a pretty strong pick. With his knock up and silence it's fairly easy to harass. If you like support Karma is also an extremely powerful laner - as you get her ult at level 1 and her shield can make harassing easy, as well as her heal. Warwick is quite a fun champion, and I can easily carry games with him if i get mid. If you end up getting warwick i can pass my secret midwick build onto you - it dominates.

Speaking of Karma: I bought her yesterday and DAMN she is fun. Her shield and knives do a great amount of damage, and by late game her shield is easily absorbing 800 with a 6 second cooldown. I don't know why so few people play her, she hits hard, and supports well.

I've tried Cho'Gath before (he was just in the free rotation like 2-3 weeks ago and he is yet again in the rotation), he is tanky and powerful, but I just didn't like him for some reason....had a hard time playing him (probably just didn't know his abilities very well or what to build towards in items other than the recommended).

I would want to try Karma as well, but I do not think I would buy her without trying her first.

If you don't mind, go ahead and PM me the warwick build if your not willing to post it on the forums. :p I'll take a look at it next free warwick week (might be awhile though, he was in the lineup just before the current rotation).

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killmaster84    41

Once I have the time I'll upload my Vayne game. It shows a alright build I was trying out.

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Emn1ty    3,978

So I finally got to try out Swain and no I'm kinda torn between getting Kennen or him. Why do they both have to be 6300 ip? sheesh.

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Nagisan    248

I'm still torn between what champs I want. Been thinking a lot recently about Garen, I only played him when I first installed the game and did the tutorial match and actually had a bit of fun with him because he seemed nice and tanky (and this was when I didn't know what the hell I was doing). After looking up some guides and stuff for him he seems pretty tanky and powerful. Not amazing damage, but he has a speed boost skill (which also does damage and silences) for chasing, plus his whirlwind skill for removing slows (and reducing duration of new slows), then a super tanky spell (passive + armor and magic resist, active dmg reduction for a few seconds) and his ultimate to finish off tanky characters (more damage the more % health they are missing).

Plus he is manaless which is a bonus (IMHO....I hate managing mana or having to build up for good mana regen), and when built right, he has like 100+ out of combat regen (at even only 2k health, he gets 0.5% per second, which is 100 health per second of healing) and thats excluding the regen from items (which give at least an additional 100 over 5 seconds....so 600+ over 5 seconds or 120 or so over 1 second). It goes down when in combat obviously, but still, sitting in bushes during the laning phase heals you very fast, giving you more laning power and his other skills focus quite a bit on harassing.

Played him once before and he was pretty interesting (pretty much my favorite until I got good with Master Yi, and even then, I only played Garen once without knowing how to play the game let alone the character)....but I just don't want to buy him then not like him as much as I think I do and have to farm another 3k to unlock Kat or another champ I like.

I really hate how this game gives you such little IP per game. Excluding first game of the day bonuses, you get on average like 50-60 IP a game, as long as each match takes I only get like 2-3 matches per night (limited play time during the day), so including first-game bonuses, I only get about 300 IP per day (give or take) which translates into 10+ days just to get a single 3150 hero. :(

EDIT: Whats up with the inconsistent IP prices? Almost every champion that costs 585 RP costs 1350 IP, Garen however, costs 585 RP or 3150 IP (Poppy has a similar difference but at the 260 RP bracket). That's a rip off, they need to lower Garen down to the standard IP price for a 585 RP champion (after looking more at it, the price sorting doesn't work at all, many other 585 RP champs cost 3150 IP as well).

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Emn1ty    3,978

I kind of agree with you on the IP amounts per game although you earn more IP the longer a game takes. Still I would rather earn 300 IP than just under 200 every time. Especially seeing as some of the champions are 6300 IP. That will take 25 games with maximum IP gain and around 42 games with the average gain. That is a lot of playtime for one champion.

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Nagisan    248

I kind of agree with you on the IP amounts per game although you earn more IP the longer a game takes. Still I would rather earn 300 IP than just under 200 every time. Especially seeing as some of the champions are 6300 IP. That will take 25 games with maximum IP gain and around 42 games with the average gain. That is a lot of playtime for one champion.

IP calculations are kind of odd....basically at a certain game duration, you start getting less IP if you win, and more IP if you lose. So say if the game takes more than 45 minutes, winners get less for each passing minute, and losers get more for each passing minute (the logic is, if you win after that amount of time, it took you way too long, if you lost after that amount of time, you gave a pretty good fight), but at the same time you don't get maximum IP from a game until like 30 minutes in (if a game ends in 20 or 25 minutes, you get noticeably less IP than a 30-35 minute game).

And how are you getting 200 IP per game? The only time I get more than 100 is with the IP bonus of 150 for the first win of the day. The highest I have gotten for a game without the first-win bonus was about 65-70, average for me is around 50-55, which would take 120 games for a single 6300 IP champion. That's over a month for how little I get to play (lets say an average of 35 minute games, thats still 70 hours worth of gaming for a single 6300 champ).

Also, when you first create an account, you get bonus IP for the first 30 games or so that you play, which basically doubles your IP gain per match (excluding the first-win bonus), but that wears off after a few days of gaming....leaving you to 50 or so IP per game.

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shakey    1,127

IP calculations are kind of odd....basically at a certain game duration, you start getting less IP if you win, and more IP if you lose. So say if the game takes more than 45 minutes, winners get less for each passing minute, and losers get more for each passing minute (the logic is, if you win after that amount of time, it took you way too long, if you lost after that amount of time, you gave a pretty good fight), but at the same time you don't get maximum IP from a game until like 30 minutes in (if a game ends in 20 or 25 minutes, you get noticeably less IP than a 30-35 minute game).

And how are you getting 200 IP per game? The only time I get more than 100 is with the IP bonus of 150 for the first win of the day. The highest I have gotten for a game without the first-win bonus was about 65-70, average for me is around 50-55, which would take 120 games for a single 6300 IP champion. That's over a month for how little I get to play (lets say an average of 35 minute games, thats still 70 hours worth of gaming for a single 6300 champ).

Also, when you first create an account, you get bonus IP for the first 30 games or so that you play, which basically doubles your IP gain per match (excluding the first-win bonus), but that wears off after a few days of gaming....leaving you to 50 or so IP per game.

I'd like to know IP calcs as well... Because they are not very even given. When I first started playing, I was getting what seemed to be , anywhere from 90-190 IP per game, and that was after the 1st game win bonus. But now, at lvl 21, I seem to get anywhere from 50-90 IP per game, but I had one where I played Singed, went 5/4/14, and got 148 IP, but the next game, I went Teemo, went like 12/2/5, and only earned 90 IP.... Both games took about the same time, but the game that with Teemo, that I feel I did a much better job on, I get way less IP. I think IP is based off of a lot of other little things done in the game...

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Nagisan    248

I'd like to know IP calcs as well... Because they are not very even given. When I first started playing, I was getting what seemed to be , anywhere from 90-190 IP per game, and that was after the 1st game win bonus. But now, at lvl 21, I seem to get anywhere from 50-90 IP per game, but I had one where I played Singed, went 5/4/14, and got 148 IP, but the next game, I went Teemo, went like 12/2/5, and only earned 90 IP.... Both games took about the same time, but the game that with Teemo, that I feel I did a much better job on, I get way less IP. I think IP is based off of a lot of other little things done in the game...

I am not sure of the exact calculations, but here's a chart from the forums that was apparently posted by a RIOT staff member: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=120444&d=1297989512

But I don't think that is 100% accurate, because most of my games last in the 35-45 minute mark and I rarely get more than 70 per game. Also, my friend and I looked at it once, he did much better than me (more kills both champion and mob, less deaths, similar assist) and I got like 70 or so IP while he only got 40, and obviously, being the same game, we played for the same amount of time.

I think it has something to do with the amount of games you play or something, my friend plays much more than me, but in general he tends to get the same or less IP per game we play together.

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Emn1ty    3,978

IP calculations are kind of odd....basically at a certain game duration, you start getting less IP if you win, and more IP if you lose. So say if the game takes more than 45 minutes, winners get less for each passing minute, and losers get more for each passing minute (the logic is, if you win after that amount of time, it took you way too long, if you lost after that amount of time, you gave a pretty good fight), but at the same time you don't get maximum IP from a game until like 30 minutes in (if a game ends in 20 or 25 minutes, you get noticeably less IP than a 30-35 minute game).

And how are you getting 200 IP per game? The only time I get more than 100 is with the IP bonus of 150 for the first win of the day. The highest I have gotten for a game without the first-win bonus was about 65-70, average for me is around 50-55, which would take 120 games for a single 6300 IP champion. That's over a month for how little I get to play (lets say an average of 35 minute games, thats still 70 hours worth of gaming for a single 6300 champ).

Also, when you first create an account, you get bonus IP for the first 30 games or so that you play, which basically doubles your IP gain per match (excluding the first-win bonus), but that wears off after a few days of gaming....leaving you to 50 or so IP per game.

My first win of the day yesterday was 256 IP, second win was 143 IP and I'm well beyond the 30 day period and have no IP boosts. My last win was 115 IP for the same day.

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shakey    1,127

I am not sure of the exact calculations, but here's a chart from the forums that was apparently posted by a RIOT staff member: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=120444&d=1297989512

But I don't think that is 100% accurate, because most of my games last in the 35-45 minute mark and I rarely get more than 70 per game. Also, my friend and I looked at it once, he did much better than me (more kills both champion and mob, less deaths, similar assist) and I got like 70 or so IP while he only got 40, and obviously, being the same game, we played for the same amount of time.

I think it has something to do with the amount of games you play or something, my friend plays much more than me, but in general he tends to get the same or less IP per game we play together.

I think you are on to something about the amount of games you play per IP you get. When I wasn't playing much, I was getting easily over 100+ IP per game, but now that I have gone to playing it basically every night, my IP seems to be around the 50-70 range... So I wonder if it is held back a little if you play more....

I've had games where I have gone 13/1 and won and received 68 IP, then lost the game right after it, and got 64 IP for the losing game and having a much worse score...

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Nagisan    248

My first win of the day yesterday was 256 IP, second win was 143 IP and I'm well beyond the 30 day period and have no IP boosts. My last win was 115 IP for the same day.

What type of games are you playing? Mine were pretty much all bot games with a couple 3v3 against people every now and then, but on average, my raw IP (no IP boost, no first-win boost) is never more than around 70-75.

I think you are on to something about the amount of games you play per IP you get. When I wasn't playing much, I was getting easily over 100+ IP per game, but now that I have gone to playing it basically every night, my IP seems to be around the 50-70 range... So I wonder if it is held back a little if you play more....

I've had games where I have gone 13/1 and won and received 68 IP, then lost the game right after it, and got 64 IP for the losing game and having a much worse score...

Yeah, from what I have seen, in-game performance has very little to do with IP gain. It seems to do more with time and other factors than anything else. Even 1 person doing much better than any others, they don't tend to get much more than the others if at all.

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Emn1ty    3,978

What type of games are you playing? Mine were pretty much all bot games with a couple 3v3 against people every now and then, but on average, my raw IP (no IP boost, no first-win boost) is never more than around 70-75.

Yeah, from what I have seen, in-game performance has very little to do with IP gain. It seems to do more with time and other factors than anything else. Even 1 person doing much better than any others, they don't tend to get much more than the others if at all.

I play 5v5, no bot games. There is probably an IP scaling system for frequent players (not to lessen the IP for frequent players but to allow infrequent players to still buy champions).

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Nagisan    248

I play 5v5, no bot games. There is probably an IP scaling system for frequent players (not to lessen the IP for frequent players but to allow infrequent players to still buy champions).

That could have something to do with it....don't bot games reduce both XP and IP gains beyond a certain level or something? I may have to play more games against people in that case.....only problem is I haven't taken the time to look too much into jungling and other similar (more advanced) aspects of the game.....but from the few 3v3s I've played, not many people do anything but laning (likely very different considering 5v5s have an entire extra lane and 2 extra players).

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Lovell    280

The less IP people receive the more people buy the 6k champs with RP, even weirder is the champs from 3k - 6k been 900 RP.

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Emn1ty    3,978

That could have something to do with it....don't bot games reduce both XP and IP gains beyond a certain level or something? I may have to play more games against people in that case.....only problem is I haven't taken the time to look too much into jungling and other similar (more advanced) aspects of the game.....but from the few 3v3s I've played, not many people do anything but laning (likely very different considering 5v5s have an entire extra lane and 2 extra players).

3v3 LoL is entirely different and honestly a broken part of the game. The key to winning in that area is bulky characters who can withstand a lot of punishment. The game wasn't designed around 3v3 to begin with so it makes sense that it is a bit unbalanced. Play more 5v5 and the game will change entirely (and you may even like champions you didn't before as a result).

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Nagisan    248

3v3 LoL is entirely different and honestly a broken part of the game. The key to winning in that area is bulky characters who can withstand a lot of punishment. The game wasn't designed around 3v3 to begin with so it makes sense that it is a bit unbalanced. Play more 5v5 and the game will change entirely (and you may even like champions you didn't before as a result).

Good point, I haven't played LoL a ton, but I do know 5v5 was the default and 3v3 was added later. I wish they would either add more maps, add more bots (5v5 with a selection of less then 10 different bots gets repetitive, at the very least create bots for all champs and only allow them to use the champs that are free each week), a majority of my play has been 5v5, but the only human matches I have played were 3v3s, never played a 5v5 against people.

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killmaster84    41

Bot and 3v3 games give a lot less IP than 5v5.

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