Why Hacking the PS3 is good for everyone

[HawkMan]

Of course not. Identify theft is a crime. Providing users with a path to homebrew is 100% legal in all other cases.

Sega v. Accolade

Lexmark Int'l v. Static Control Components

The Chamberlain Group, Inc. v. Skylink Technologies, Inc.

PC's are for homebrew. the PS3 you bought locked down, for really cheap compared to what the hardware is worth, is licensed and locked down to run their software authorized by them. there's no inherrent right that you should be able to run homebrew on it.

and homebrew was never his intention and everyone knows it, only apologists claim otherwise, and even they know it. they just want to protect him because now they can play games for free, and cheat online and ruin other peoples games.

He provided the keys that opened up licensed software, that IS ILLEGAL.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

PC's are for homebrew. the PS3 you bought locked down, for really cheap compared to what the hardware is worth, is licensed and locked down to run their software authorized by them. there's no inherrent right that you should be able to run homebrew on it.

and homebrew was never his intention and everyone knows it, only apologists claim otherwise, and even they know it. they just want to protect him because now they can play games for free, and cheat online and ruin other peoples games.

He provided the keys that opened up licensed software, that IS ILLEGAL.

You still have the right, check out the cases I outlined in the previous post. All argued the same thing, that unauthorized software was not allowed on their "closed" systems.

Some closed systems you may be familiar with:

iPhone, iPod, iPad. These are very closed systems, however, it was recently found that users could modify their devices all they want.

Kinect: Microsoft actually embraced the homebrew community who hacked this device, and they are now planning to release an SDK, along side with Marcan, who developed AsbestOS for the PS3.

[BajiRav]

You still have the right, check out the cases I outlined in the previous post. All argued the same thing, that unauthorized software was not allowed on their "closed" systems.

Some closed systems you may be familiar with:

iPhone, iPod, iPad. These are very closed systems, however, it was recently found that users could modify their devices all they want.

Kinect: Microsoft actually embraced the homebrew community who hacked this device, and they are now planning to release an SDK, along side with Marcan, who developed AsbestOS for the PS3.

were those cases before DMCA?

Kinect was never "hacked", readh Hawkman's post.

[HawkMan]

You still have the right, check out the cases I outlined in the previous post. All argued the same thing, that unauthorized software was not allowed on their "closed" systems.

Some closed systems you may be familiar with:

iPhone, iPod, iPad. These are very closed systems, however, it was recently found that users could modify their devices all they want.

Kinect: Microsoft actually embraced the homebrew community who hacked this device, and they are now planning to release an SDK, along side with Marcan, who developed AsbestOS for the PS3.

notice how NONE of those cases included breaking copy protection so people can steal stuff instead of buying it. it just meant people could install other stuff on them. which isn't what they did on the PS3. he could have just done that, he didn't. they released the root key, they could instead have created a locked down firmware, with the keys hidden, just like a regular firmware, but had it opened for homebrew. they didn't , they released the keys so other hackers could release pirated software.

why did they do this, Because they wanted to open it up for pirate,s while at the same time try to protect themselves form being sued for releasing pirate CFW. but that's not how it works.

and people need to stop comparing kinect to this, I've replied on the kinect issue many times before why it's a stupid comparison, so I won't do it again, I'll just say it's a stupid comparison, heck it's not even a comparison. if youw ant to know why, read up.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

were those cases before DMCA?

I think the Sega one is. The Lexmark one for example, was done after the DMCA.

"The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that circumvention of Lexmark's ink cartridge lock does not violate the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)."

notice how NONE of those cases included breaking copy protection so people can steal stuff instead of buying it. it just meant people could install other stuff on them. which isn't what they did on the PS3. he could have just done that, he didn't. they released the root key, they could instead have created a locked down firmware, with the keys hidden, just like a regular firmware, but had it opened for homebrew. they didn't , they released the keys so other hackers could release pirated software.

why did they do this, Because they wanted to open it up for pirate,s while at the same time try to protect themselves form being sued for releasing pirate CFW. but that's not how it works.

and people need to stop comparing kinect to this, I've replied on the kinect issue many times before why it's a stupid comparison, so I won't do it again, I'll just say it's a stupid comparison, heck it's not even a comparison. if youw ant to know why, read up.

You can compare the two, here is a good article on it: http://ps3crunch.com/microsoft-sony.html

And yes, they do involve breaking copy protection. There is such a thing as pirated iOS apps ;)

[shakey]

Of course not. Identify theft is a crime. Providing users with a path to homebrew is 100% legal in all other cases.

Sega v. Accolade

Lexmark Int'l v. Static Control Components

The Chamberlain Group, Inc. v. Skylink Technologies, Inc.

But as you have stated, I have not stolen your identity. I have only given out all the resources for others to do it. It's my free speech ( in your world ) for me to give out information, as long as I myself am not doing anything with it. Others may, but hell, I can't control them. I only found some information out that lets others do things they normally couldn't.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

But as you have stated, I have not stolen your identity. I have only given out all the resources for others to do it. It's my free speech ( in your world ) for me to give out information, as long as I myself am not doing anything with it. Others may, but hell, I can't control them. I only found some information out that lets others do things they normally couldn't.

Correct. Giving out information how to steal another's identity is not in itself illegal. For example, I can link you to an article on how to perform ARP spoofing/poisoning. A completely legitimate method of controlling one's users (for example, a hotel). However, the same technique can be used to steal another clients password information. The posting of information isn't inherently illegal (otherwise I would be in jail for this post).

[DukeEsquire]

Of course not. Identify theft is a crime. Providing users with a path to homebrew is 100% legal in all other cases.

Sega v. Accolade

Lexmark Int'l v. Static Control Components

The Chamberlain Group, Inc. v. Skylink Technologies, Inc.

Identity theft is posing as someone else. You're not posing when you simply distribute it.

[HawkMan]

I think the Sega one is. The Lexmark one for example, was done after the DMCA.

"The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that circumvention of Lexmark's ink cartridge lock does not violate the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)."

You can compare the two, here is a good article on it: http://ps3crunch.com/microsoft-sony.html

And yes, they do involve breaking copy protection. There is such a thing as pirated iOS apps ;)

the ink cartridge lock isn't even comparable to a sfotware/OS DRM lockdown. and besides that even with that case, as soon as you put a pirate cartridge in the printer, if somethign breaks and it canbe linked to the cartridge, you're SOL, no warranty.

and no the you can't compare writing a driver for Kinect (the actual licensed software, with all the copyrighted algorithms, are still locked down inside the 360) to completely opening up the PS3. if you think it is...

there are pirated iOS apps, but those are pirated even without the jailbreak, the jailbreak merely lets you install stuff, the copy protection still needs to be removed anyway, this hack on the PS3, does this for you.

and again, if you want to run homebrew, use your computer. the PS3 is not a computer, it's not sold as a computer. and it's sold with a license you have to agree to to use it.

[Subject Delta]

'Barely anyone' means 'not many'.

My assumption? My assumtions, when I make them, are probably better than your ability to read my post :) I didn't say everyone who cracked their device was a pirate. But any sane minded person, and I hope you're included, knows that for the majority, that is the sole purpose of modding or cracking a gaming device.

You may have used modding tools etc for the right reasons, and if you truly did, I commend you for it. But you can't deny that I'm almost certainly correct in my statement that most people wont think the way you do.

Indeed, I know a lot of people do, but it's a double edged sword when something has legitimate usage. Like I said, that is the reason that bittorrent apps have not been banned. If people's arguments for not jailbreaking the PS3 where applied in other circumstances, a lot of things we use in our day to day lives would be banned.

[shakey]

Correct. Giving out information how to steal another's identity is not in itself illegal. For example, I can link you to an article on how to perform ARP spoofing/poisoning. A completely legitimate method of controlling one's users (for example, a hotel). However, the same technique can be used to steal another clients password information. The posting of information isn't inherently illegal (otherwise I would be in jail for this post).

But, would you still be defending my right to free speech if my speech was that of such? Or would you try and protect yourself/investment and have me quieted down and not spreading your info all over the web?

And if you did quiet me down, how would you feel if i made a rap video about it :p man that thing was horrible. lol - rhetorical question

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

the ink cartridge lock isn't even comparable to a sfotware/OS DRM lockdown. and besides that even with that case, as soon as you put a pirate cartridge in the printer, if somethign breaks and it canbe linked to the cartridge, you're SOL, no warranty.

They both deal with whether or not one can install unauthorized or components on a device. Pretty comparable to me.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

But, would you still be defending my right to free speech if my speech was that of such? Or would you try and protect yourself/investment and have me quieted down and not spreading your info all over the web?

And if you did quiet me down, how would you feel if i made a rap video about it :p man that thing was horrible. lol - rhetorical question

I think I would, if you publicly told everyone how to find my password, it would help me protect myself.

Also, I thought the rap battle was terrible as well; but hilarious at the same time. :p

[shakey]

I think I would, if you publicly told everyone how to find my password, it would help me protect myself.

Also, I thought the rap battle was terrible as well; but hilarious at the same time. :p

Now what if I was spreading around had the potential to not only hurt you, but many others you know and care about, such like family? ( this is now a analogy to shareholders sony is trying to keep happy ). If my information had the power to hurt your mother, father, and other family/friends, would you not want to silence me? For the sake of this, as we can put a safe bet that this is just how the shareholders are responding to sony, that they want you to silence me as well, and are pressuring you to fix this. And no violence :p

[UN1X]

and again, if you want to run homebrew, use your computer. the PS3 is not a computer, it's not sold as a computer. and it's sold with a license you have to agree to to use it.

Hmm... "A computer is a programmable machine that receives input, stores and manipulates data, and provides output in a useful format."

You do realize that the PS3 is a COMPUTER being sold specifically for playing video games?

The ONLY thing that constitutes the PS3 as a video game console is the software it runs.

Without the software, it has the potential of a regular computer.

If I am given hardware, I want to be able to write software for my hardware.

Sony is preventing people from running their OWN software on the PS3 COMPUTERS they have bought.

Sure they have a software agreement, but I don't want their software. I want my software, and their hardware.

GeoHotz doesn't condone piracy, and all he wanted to do was use his own software with the hardware he purchased and allow others to do the same.

Also, I should be able to manipulate the hardware as I see fit as long as I do not sell the modified device with or without the new/modified softwares.

[iamawesomewicked]

Sure they have a software agreement, but I don't want their software. I want my software, and their hardware.

GeoHotz doesn't condone piracy, and all he wanted to do was use his own software with the hardware he purchased and allow others to do the same.

Cut the ****. You won't ever, write software for the PS3. The one way you could, is to become a video game developer, get a PS3 Dev Kit, and whatever other tools are needed to actually make software for the PS3, and do that.

Too many people who think they're entitled to do whatever the **** they want, just because they paid for it.

If your software is so great that it should be running on a PS3, show us what you have. Show me proof that you have a legit piece of software for the PS3. Show me what GeoHot's software was.. Custom PS3 firmware, by the way, doesn't count. That is still Sony firmware, just with the ability to allow for unsigned code to run.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

Now what if I was spreading around had the potential to not only hurt you, but many others you know and care about, such like family? ( this is now a analogy to shareholders sony is trying to keep happy ). If my information had the power to hurt your mother, father, and other family/friends, would you not want to silence me? For the sake of this, as we can put a safe bet that this is just how the shareholders are responding to sony, that they want you to silence me as well, and are pressuring you to fix this. And no violence :p

I don't see how that's different from my example of ARP poisoning, a technique that has potential to hurt anyone who uses Public WiFi.

[UN1X]

Cut the ****. You won't ever, write software for the PS3. The one way you could, is to become a video game developer, get a PS3 Dev Kit, and whatever other tools are needed to actually make software for the PS3, and do that.

Too many people who think they're entitled to do whatever the **** they want, just because they paid for it.

If your software is so great that it should be running on a PS3, show us what you have. Show me proof that you have a legit piece of software for the PS3. Show me what GeoHot's software was.. Custom PS3 firmware, by the way, doesn't count. That is still Sony firmware, just with the ability to allow for unsigned code to run.

Ummm? LINUX PERHAPS? I didn't say I would be writing software for the PS3's operating system.

In fact, I don't want the PS3 software at all.

Also yes I did pay for it, so yes, and I SHOULD be able do whatever the ^$#@ I want to it.

If you paid for food wouldn't you be pretty ****ed that it came with and agreement that you couldn't eat it?

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

Cut the ****. You won't ever, write software for the PS3. The one way you could, is to become a video game developer, get a PS3 Dev Kit, and whatever other tools are needed to actually make software for the PS3, and do that.

Too many people who think they're entitled to do whatever the **** they want, just because they paid for it.

If your software is so great that it should be running on a PS3, show us what you have. Show me proof that you have a legit piece of software for the PS3. Show me what GeoHot's software was.. Custom PS3 firmware, by the way, doesn't count. That is still Sony firmware, just with the ability to allow for unsigned code to run.

If you want to contribute to PS3 homebrew, here is a link to the AsbestOS git: http://git.marcansoft.com/?p=asbestos.git

Hopefully there will be more projects like XBMC ... that software is boss :D

[shakey]

I don't see how that's different from my example of ARP poisoning, a technique that has potential to hurt anyone who uses Public WiFi.

I'm saying, if this was all happening to you as I described it, Would YOU not want to silence me in some manner? This is exactly what is happening to Sony. Their actions and response is all practical with the situation.

[vladmphoto]

So, to summarise, he wants to "free" the device from the "control" of the company that designed them?

What a damn hippy. If you don't want to accept the control the company places on the device, just don't buy it.

Or you can ignore all the brain-washing that "The Man" has done to your mind and realize that you could form and follow your own laws when it comes to something like this. Remember, just because some big, powerful corporation with lots of scary money tells you how things must be doesn't mean they deserve your respect or acknowledgement.

Also remember that laws aren't perfect and sometimes we have to be big boys and girls and use our heads a little and make our own decisions rather than being led by people with lots of financial power. You have to say to yourself: "I purchased it with my own money, it's in my house, it's 100% mine. The manufacturer, as far as I am concerned has lost all rights to this product. EULA does not matter one bit."

As long as you aren't using the product to do anything morally wrong such as steal software, cheat in games etc, why should we care when Sony or other corporations tell us what to do with OUR products?

[shakey]

Ummm? LINUX PERHAPS? Also yes I did pay for it, so yes, and I SHOULD be able do whatever the ^$#@ I want to it.

If you paid for food wouldn't you be pretty ****ed that it came with and agreement that you couldn't eat it?

I can buy all the supplies I need at a corner store to make meth... still doesn't mean that I can legally do it.... come back to reality people.

Or you can ignore all the brain-washing that "The Man" has done to your mind and realize that you could form and follow your own laws when it comes to something like this. Remember, just because some big, powerful corporation with lots of scary money tells you how things must be doesn't mean they deserve your respect or acknowledgement.

Also remember that laws aren't perfect and sometimes we have to be big boys and girls and use our heads a little and make our own decisions rather than being led by people with lots of financial power. You have to say to yourself: "I purchased it with my own money, it's in my house, it's 100% mine. The manufacturer, as far as I am concerned has lost all rights to this product. EULA does not matter one bit."

As long as you aren't using the product to do anything morally wrong such as steal software, cheat in games etc, why should we care when Sony or other corporations tell us what to do with OUR products?

Ya , it is yours, but the second you start using it to affect others, that is where you have now left your house, and are in the real world, were laws and rules apply. Knock Knock, Hello, Yes, it's the world....

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

I can buy all the supplies I need at a corner store to make meth... still doesn't mean that I can legally do it.... come back to reality people.

AsbestOS = Meth? O_o;

[shakey]

AsbestOS = Meth? O_o;

analogy my friend. if people want to say that they can do whatever the hell they want with whatever the hell they buy, I'm going to shut them up with some logic. Just because you own something does not give you the right to do whatever you want with it. You can do whatever you want, as long as you don't ever affect anyone or thing else. But if you do affect someone or thing else, better be ready for the after affect.

[yekGLzhQ4Qju1FtAVcC4]

analogy my friend. if people want to say that they can do whatever the hell they want with whatever the hell they buy, I'm going to shut them up with some logic.

Your logic: If A=B, then C=B.

One is legal, one is illegal. Linux is not illegal.