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San Francisco may vote on banning male circumcision

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Fred Derf    217

One could potentially be life or death. The other is not.

Circumcision could potentially be life or death as well. It all depends on what scale you use.

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ylcard    142

One could potentially be life or death. The other is not.

You're right, a vaccine could potentially kill you while a circumcision won't. Ever. Unless the Rabbi's drunk and cuts the whole package, but then it's no longer circumcision, it's assault with a deadly weapon, lol.

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Miuku.    364

The whole circumcision is a revolting practice from the dark ages and should have been abolished by any progressive country by now, kudos to people in SF for their initiative.

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ylcard    142

The whole circumcision is a revolting practice from the dark ages and should have been abolished by any progressive country by now, kudos to people in SF for their initiative.

/s or /trolling ?

lol

resident anti religion lunatic, heya :)

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iamawesomewicked    80

Circumcision could potentially be life or death as well. It all depends on what scale you use.

When has it ever been life or death though?

/s or /trolling ?

lol

resident anti religion lunatic, heya :)

Well, there is no reason for parents to make that decision. If someone wants to become circumsized, they can get it done in the future, if complications ever arise.

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Tech Star    254

The question everyone's afraid to ask is: has Obama really been circumcised, as he claims? Where's the proof?

:laugh:

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Fred Derf    217

When has it ever been life or death though?

Both vaccines and circumcision can save your life. There are health benefits to circumcision including reduced HIV infection rates. Overall, it's about 100x smarter to wear a condom but the infection rates of circumcised men are statistically lower than those of uncircumcised men. Also, urinary tract infections can be reduced through circumcision and that can be a serious problem in the first few months of life.

Really, it all comes down to scale. The benefits of vaccines are more readily apparent and more statistically sound but that's not to say that the other doesn't exist.

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Southern Patriot    960
Well, there is no reason for parents to make that decision. If someone wants to become circumsized, they can get it done in the future, if complications ever arise.

Jews, Muslims, and some other religous people would beg to differ with you on that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Cultures_and_religions

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mokthraka    159

I'm glad my parents had it done when I was a baby.

When has it ever been life or death though?

Well, there is no reason for parents to make that decision. If someone wants to become circumsized, they can get it done in the future, if complications ever arise.

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ylcard    142

Well, there is no reason for parents to make that decision. If someone wants to become circumsized, they can get it done in the future, if complications ever arise.

There's no reason you should be upset (general you, not you you, you.. you know, you :D) about strangers performing a religious ceremony on their child, no one is forcing you (again..) to do that to your child, so it's fine.

And personally I can think of two reasons for doing it.

1. It'll be natural for the boy, he won't have to "get used" to it. Although I'm not entirely sure if there's any "getting used to" period :p

2. It's more painful as an adult than as an 8 days old infant, if not, oh well, they won't remember a thing anyway, an adult will :)

Not the greatest reasons in the world, but it sure as hell beats "I don't want them to make decisions for their child", or something along those lines.

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iamawesomewicked    80

Jews, Muslims, and some other religous people would beg to differ with you on that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Cultures_and_religions

Yeah well, I really don't give a crap about what religious people think.

There's no reason you should be upset (general you, not you you, you.. you know, you :D) about strangers performing a religious ceremony on their child, no one is forcing you (again..) to do that to your child, so it's fine.

And personally I can think of two reasons for doing it.

1. It'll be natural for the boy, he won't have to "get used" to it. Although I'm not entirely sure if there's any "getting used to" period :p

2. It's more painful as an adult than as an 8 days old infant, if not, oh well, they won't remember a thing anyway, an adult will :)

Not the greatest reasons in the world, but it sure as hell beats "I don't want them to make decisions for their child", or something along those lines.

But they're forcing their children to do something in which they have no conscious decision of.

There is no "getting used to it" when they're young. I know someone who had it done when he was 14. He's just fine. It was a little uncomfortable for a week or 2.

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Seizure1990    252

Yeah well, I really don't give a crap about what religious people think.

So why should religious people give a crap what you think then? We'll continue doing things our own way, thank you very much.

I love it when atheists talk about how open-minded they are compared to religious people... hahah, oh man..

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ViperAFK    797

guess we should ban giving babies vaccines too, since they don't have a choice in the matter, and it's painful.

There is a big difference between vaccines and genital mutilation.

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Fred Derf    217

There is a big difference between vaccines and genital mutilation.

female circumcision = genital mutilation with negative health repercussions

male circumcision = common practice with health benefits

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Seizure1990    252

There is a big difference between vaccines and genital mutilation.

There's also a difference between circumcision and genital mutilation, but nice try.

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ILikeTobacco    839

So why should religious people give a crap what you think then? We'll continue doing things our own way, thank you very much.

I love it when atheists talk about how open-minded they are compared to religious people... hahah, oh man..

your closed minded because you think everyone should have a choice!.... wait that didnt sound right

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iamawesomewicked    80

female circumcision = genital mutilation with negative health repercussions

male circumcision = common practice with health benefits

It only has health benefits if you're a dirty mofo who doesn't know how to clean the head of his dick.

I've had 0 complications, 0 infections, 0 anything from not being circumcised

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Miuku.    364
/s or /trolling

resident anti religion lunatic, heya :)

Neither - I firmly believe (and with reasonably large base of information I can rely on) that it's a practice from the dark ages based on superstition that should be barred asap. Luckily over here it's considered nothing short of abusing your child and anyone having it done is looked upon as a sicko.

As for "medical benefits", there have been other studies that have shown absolutely NO benefit from it and even those that showed any fell well within any margin of error by random chance. The whole "it prevents HIV!" is completely voodoo medicine. Let's not also forget that circumcision is an irreversible process that removes sensitivity from the area.

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iamawesomewicked    80

So why should religious people give a crap what you think then? We'll continue doing things our own way, thank you very much.

I love it when atheists talk about how open-minded they are compared to religious people... hahah, oh man..

How am I being closed minded?

I'm saying that the child should have a choice in the matter. And you're saying they shouldn't.

Should they have a choice in vaccines? Maybe, but we're not talking about Vaccines.

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Routerbad    90

Yeah well, I really don't give a crap about what religious people think.

But they're forcing their children to do something in which they have no conscious decision of.

There is no "getting used to it" when they're young. I know someone who had it done when he was 14. He's just fine. It was a little uncomfortable for a week or 2.

Everything in a child's life is the decision of the parent. I'm glad it was done when I was born.

As far as the petition goes, not that hard to get support for a liberal bill in San Fran.

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Tuishimi    129

Neither - I firmly believe (and with reasonably large base of information I can rely on) that it's a practice from the dark ages based on superstition that should be barred asap. Luckily over here it's considered nothing short of abusing your child and anyone having it done is looked upon as a sicko.

As for "medical benefits", there have been other studies that have shown absolutely NO benefit from it and even those that showed any fell well within any margin of error by random chance. The whole "it prevents HIV!" is completely voodoo medicine. Let's not also forget that circumcision is an irreversible process that removes sensitivity from the area.

So must think abortion is an abomination as well!!

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Twisp    12

Whoever thinks that the parents of a child should be allowed to decide about doing something irreversible to it is a moron. Ban it.

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Phantom Spaceman    89

My son will be born any day now and this has been an extensive debate. Initially we were going to have him circumcised as I've always been so why not? But after some research the risk of complications is too great, and it shouldn't be our decision to make. In the future if my son wants to be circumcised more power to him.

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Routerbad    90

Neither - I firmly believe (and with reasonably large base of information I can rely on) that it's a practice from the dark ages based on superstition that should be barred asap. Luckily over here it's considered nothing short of abusing your child and anyone having it done is looked upon as a sicko.

As for "medical benefits", there have been other studies that have shown absolutely NO benefit from it and even those that showed any fell well within any margin of error by random chance. The whole "it prevents HIV!" is completely voodoo medicine. Let's not also forget that circumcision is an irreversible process that removes sensitivity from the area.

It doesn't remove any sensativity. On the contrary, it exposes the area with the higest level of nerve endings to direct contact.

As far as giving children choice... I've already said parents should be the source of all serious decision making for children. You wouldn't give children a choice with vaccines either, that should be a parent's choice. little tommy just doesn't want a boo-boo, the parent should know it's in their best interest.

The reason the practice was created (not in the dark ages, which came much, much later) was the fact that its harder to clean and more prone to infection, which no doubt many people were dying from. Superstition it was not.

If you want it barred asap, then opt out of it when you have a child. Be a parent, and let others be parents as well.

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NateB1    75

Forget the moral issues - how is this even remotely enforceable? Parents who want it done will just have it done privately and not tell anyone, or go outside SF and get it done. This in no way will affect the rate of circumcision in any meaningful sense. It's a big waste of everyone's time and resources.

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