Windows 8 HAS NO START MENU

[Fred Derf Veteran]

So it's not a Start Menu but rather a Start Overlay?

[eilegz]

good experience for tablets, embedded devices but not impressed for desktops. seems like windows stripped down to a minimal lvl not the same from OSX to iOS but kinda going like gnome2 to unity.... the UI seems locked and not very customizable, very highly integrated and cut off a lot of things but anyways its looks smooth and great.

ios and android 3.x should better improve their ecosystem because "full" windows its going to make an impact in all the mobile and tablet market soon...

I would like to see how windows 8 its gonna impact in legacy devices.

[freak180]

Maybe its left click using the mouse to go to start screen and right click now being used as the start menu? I think that would work well if you think about it. :rolleyes:

[MFH]

Maybe its left click using the mouse to go to start screen and right click now being used as the start menu? I think that would work well if you think about it. :rolleyes:

It wouldn't work if you are using the Windows-key?

BTW: right click on the Orb already has a functionality?

[freak180]

I know it already has one, but rarely anyone uses it.

[remixedcat]

I do, to change the settings! I hate the defaults. I add my custom links, and change the control panel to a menu and all other options on there to menus. I'm a heavy start menu user. I prefer stuff to be there to tidy up instead of having rows of icons on a dock or my desktop cluttered.

what I don't get is why they didn't just have the taskbar on the bottom of the start screen to begin with (accessible with a circle button on the bottom left corner) and have the start screen act like omino or other rainmeter type stuff instead of being the core UI? that would have made more sense and it would work for both.

the taskbar would be able to be flipped up in any window and you can have the "classic" app switching intergrated as well. why haven't they thought of that? that would make the start screen better for desktop use and provide more functionality!

with rainmeter you can re-locate and group the tiles to where you wanted it and have a nicer setup then just two rows of tiles fixed in a position... and if you want them back to default hit a button to reset!

[ThePitt]

I saw that video a few months ago. And still annoying. I dont know whats more worse, the video itself or the announcer/presenter. Either way I rather die instead use that interfase.

[Kyang]

I'm fine with the start screen.

What isn't okay is the needless swiping he's forced to do in order to find which app he wants. That part where is swipes the screen about 5 times looking for the Twitter app just shows how quickly things fall apart without a typical taskbar. Other than that, I thought everything looked pretty cool.

[Woelfel]

I do, to change the settings! I hate the defaults. I add my custom links, and change the control panel to a menu and all other options on there to menus. I'm a heavy start menu user. I prefer stuff to be there to tidy up instead of having rows of icons on a dock or my desktop cluttered.

How many times do you do that? I doubt it's enough for it to be there all the time. Go to settings, boom, finished.

[winlonghorn]

I do, to change the settings! I hate the defaults. I add my custom links, and change the control panel to a menu and all other options on there to menus. I'm a heavy start menu user. I prefer stuff to be there to tidy up instead of having rows of icons on a dock or my desktop cluttered.

what I don't get is why they didn't just have the taskbar on the bottom of the start screen to begin with (accessible with a circle button on the bottom left corner) and have the start screen act like omino or other rainmeter type stuff instead of being the core UI? that would have made more sense and it would work for both.

the taskbar would be able to be flipped up in any window and you can have the "classic" app switching intergrated as well. why haven't they thought of that? that would make the start screen better for desktop use and provide more functionality!

with rainmeter you can re-locate and group the tiles to where you wanted it and have a nicer setup then just two rows of tiles fixed in a position... and if you want them back to default hit a button to reset!

You can move the tiles in Windows 8! lol :)

[MFH]

How many times do you do that? I doubt it's enough for it to be there all the time. Go to settings, boom, finished.

Oh ok, lets start searching for stuff nobody uses on a regular basis and mess with them so the people that use them no longer know where they are?

I for one never use the "icon menu", you know on the left side of the titlebar - lets get rid of it!

About 90% of the users have never used media center - or don't even know it exists - remove it from Windows!

?

[Jamushroom Veteran]

I know it already has one, but rarely anyone uses it.

A simple radio button for 2 options would be more then sufficient and not so sophisticated; 1 being the Start Panel and one being the Start Screen.

@remixedcat: Honestly, you should chill out. You see things on screenshots/videos, then you jump to conclusions and see them as facts. Just chill out and wait for all the necessary info instead of bashing it all for the wrong reasons :/

[ToneKnee]

Oh ok, lets start searching for stuff nobody uses on a regular basis and mess with them so the people that use them no longer know where they are?

I for one never use the "icon menu", you know on the left side of the titlebar - lets get rid of it!

About 90% of the users have never used media center - or don't even know it exists - remove it from Windows!

?

What's wrong with choice? It's not like it uses much space any ways, especially when we have Terabyte sized hard drives and stuff like that.

[perochan]

Mac OS has no start menu and it all works fine.

[freak180]

What's wrong with choice? It's not like it uses much space any ways, especially when we have Terabyte sized hard drives and stuff like that.

He's right but wrong in a way. They should removed it, however xbox live might be integrated with Win 8 therefore having mediacenter apart of it,

[Jamushroom Veteran]

^That's because OSX has a folder in which one can find all the installed apps, Windows's equivalent to that is the start panel.

[fix-this!]

It looks confused, and very gimmicky! Trying to bring that nasty Windows mobile 7 interface to a PC... no thanks!

agreed 100%

i better see a revised aero + a traditional start menu.

[Shadrack]

I hope not. I love the start button. One thing I really dislike about Mac OS X, no start button. The start button neatly tucks away everything, yet it is all accessible from that button (either by browsing or by typing in the search). On Mac OS X, there is spotlight which I basically use but if I'm having a memory block on what to type for what I'm looking for it is less useful.

[MFH]

What's wrong with choice? It's not like it uses much space any ways, especially when we have Terabyte sized hard drives and stuff like that.

I think you missed my point: The fact that only a small number of people use a feature doesn't mean that we should change/remove it.

[remixedcat]

Just like how this reasoning is:

"nobody cooks at home anymore.... so might as well get rid of the kitchen becuase it wastes space in your house".....

when I actually prefer to cook my meals at home! Not everyone wants to be forced to eat out!

Same as the other examples presented... we still want our options! We don't want them taken away.

[Ravensky]

Whats this then in that very video.

The Windows 7 superbar with the start button?

Ever considered it might be contextual? Or you might be able to change the behaviour of the windows key?

Windows 7 with a gimmicky overlay app that is going to crash a lot...lol....go MS! But it looks like my phone and my xbox 360... :blink:

[Calum Veteran]

I hope the port VS to this mess then the dumbest one will notice that it's a bad idea?

Hopefully they'll do, and you'll see how great it works :) I already have ideas as to how Visual Studio or another type of IDE could work in this immersive experience, including when running and debugging work. My ideas are complicated to explain, but I reckon they'd work well.

Yeah they just added it! I wouldn't be surprised if they will add it to Win8 with SP1.

How ridiculous. You claim I don't know much about Microsoft, but then you imply that Microsoft don't learn from their mistakes. Perhaps you need to read up on the history of Windows or other Microsoft software. They've realised they needed a search feature in their Windows Phone Start Screen, so they've most likely learnt from that mistake for the first version of Windows 8 and will include a search function in the Windows Start Screen (again, speculation on my part, but it makes sense).

Yes! A short incomplete list:

• Windows 1
  
• Windows 2
  
• Microsoft Bob
  
• Windows ME
  
• Windows XP Professional 64bit
  
• Windows Home Server 2011
  
• Windows Mobile 6
  
• Windows Mobile 6.5
  
• Microsoft Kin
  

All of those operating systems had usable interfaces; they may have had performance issues, or the interfaces may not have been nice to use, but they were all still usable. My question was clearly asking about usability in terms of interface, not performance, as we were discussing the user interface. Microsoft Kin's user interface was very usable; it just had other problems, such as only updating every 15 minutes.

Because he seems to understand Microsoft more than you do?

There's no way you can comment on my understanding of Microsoft just because you disagree with an opinion of mine. I understand a lot more about Microsoft than you're prepared to realise.

Right, they are just waisting a whole lot of space on the screen?

It's not wasted space if they're displaying useful information. I'm hoping there will be a way I can have the Start Screen always open on one of my screens due to the notifications and updates that are likely to be displayed there.

Windows 7 with a gimmicky overlay app that is going to crash a lot...lol....go MS! But it looks like my phone and my xbox 360... :blink:

You haven't read or listened to much about Windows 8 have you? It is not an overlay app; it's built into the shell. It will not crash a lot. The Start Screen is built into the shell just like the Start Menu. Has your Start Menu crashed a lot on your current version of Windows? I imagine it hasn't!

Whats this then in that very video.

The Windows 7 superbar with the start button?

Ever considered it might be contextual? Or you might be able to change the behaviour of the windows key?

<image snipped>

If you've watched the videos of them demonstrating Windows 8, you may have realised that the Start button takes one to the Start Screen by default, not the Start Menu. Of course, there may be a way to change that behaviour, but I hope there isn't.

[Ayepecks]

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying. But I assume you are talking about the switch to the old UI whenever a legacy app will be launched? Yes, that will create incosistency, but as I mentioned in the last part of my post, this will disappear over time -- maybe by the time Windows 9 is launched there will be "modern" apps for everything.

So you think that by the time Windows 9 launches, we'll all stop using "legacy" (please, "legacy"?) apps? So we're all just going to stop gaming? We're going to stop using Photoshop? Because if you honestly mean to tell me that you think these applications are going to switch over to Microsoft's hybrid language (HTML5, Javascript, etc), then I think you're utterly crazy.

Don't call them legacy apps. There's nothing "legacy" about them, because developers aren't going to sacrifice just so they don't have to be launched in the desktop. Similarly, I think a lot of developers are going to want the desktop to be utilized. Why would Steam, for instance, want to be launched in the Start screen? For multitasking, the new Start screen has to prove itself.

I wish people would stop praising everything Microsoft does on Neowin just because they're Microsoft and that's the primary subject of the site's news and information. Newsflash: they're fallible, just like everyone else.

[ATLien_0]

If you listen to the video he states that Windows 8 had been redesigned or re imagined for ultra portable devices. Almost sounds like to me that the desktop environment will change very little, but they are adding a whole new immersive desktop experience for the portables the "live tiles" . The start menu is not going anywhere because of the power and business users. For the home and portable users the live tiles are a perfect replacement for a cluttered desktop or super bar.

I mean think about it, most of those users have small screens and probably a ton of app shortcuts on the superbar or even desktop. Doesn't it seem more natural to rev up that experience with live tiles which are essentially desktop app shortcuts..

[MFH]

Hopefully they'll do, and you'll see how great it works :) I already have ideas as to how Visual Studio or another type of IDE could work in this immersive experience, including when running and debugging work. My ideas are complicated to explain, but I reckon they'd work well.

Yeah working in a UI that allows 2 programs in parallel max on the screen and even prevents that if your screen doesn't fulfill certain criteria. Surely that's the future of multitasking?

How ridiculous. You claim I don't know much about Microsoft, but then you imply that Microsoft don't learn from their mistakes. Perhaps you need to read up on the history of Windows or other Microsoft software. They've realised they needed a search feature in their Windows Phone Start Screen, so they've most likely learnt from that mistake for the first version of Windows 8 and will include a search function in the Windows Start Screen (again, speculation on my part, but it makes sense).

Yes! Because Microsoft has a habit of not learning from their mistakes! I've used their software long enough to notice that, maybe you need to open your eyes?

And matter of fact: That they only realized such a search feature is needed in WP is a perfect example of them not learning anything?

All of those operating systems had usable interfaces; they may have had performance issues, or the interfaces may not have been nice to use, but they were all still usable. My question was clearly asking about usability in terms of interface, not performance, as we were discussing the user interface. Microsoft Kin's user interface was very usable; it just had other problems, such as only updating every 15 minutes.

Nope you asked: "Have Microsoft ever released a desktop or phone operating system that is unusable or doesn't work well?" And there you have it a non-complete list. BTW: calling Bob makes me wonder what your definition of "usable" is - do you consider punched cards to be a usable interface too?

There's no way you can comment on my understanding of Microsoft just because you disagree with an opinion of mine. I understand a lot more about Microsoft than you're prepared to realise.

?? You work there or what? Even that wouldn't mean anything? And I never said I would understand them better than you, but that TheLegendOfMart seems to do?

It's not wasted space if they're displaying useful information. I'm hoping there will be a way I can have the Start Screen always open on one of my screens due to the notifications and updates that are likely to be displayed there.

Useful information like: "You got new mail?" - yeah we've already had that. Or "new message from XYZ in messenger ABC" - have that already. Or a RSS Feed - we have it already? This "notifications" add absolutely nothing that wasn't there already?