win8 Windows 8 - intuitive or not?

[Wyn6]

I think the video is spot on. A truly intuitive product is one where the basics are understood right away, not through tutorials, reading manuals or other forms of outside help. Those "Charms" are extremely counter-intuitive because you won't be able to figure them out without an explanation. Now if they were used for some extra functionality it wouldn't be such a disaster, but no, currently Microsoft is forcing you to use them in order to access very basic functions like going back to Start or shut down your PC. It's an accessibility disaster waiting to happen even if Microsoft adds tutorials to Windows 8.

The [+] automatically pops up if you drag a window around in Mission Control, you can then drop the window onto the [+] to create a new space for whatever app you're working with.

Then as far as PCs/Tech Gadgets go, I'd say there aren't any "truly intuitive products". There's a learning curve with everything. Do you know how many people I know with iphones, windows phones and androids that don't know how to do certain things on their phones? I showed somebody the other day, when trying to reply to one person in a group text, how to subtract the other names so she didn't reply to everyone. This person didn't have that person in their contacts. But, now she knows.

First time I ever sat down with the ipad (my brother's not mine) I tapped an icon and went into that app. Checked it out for a bit then started looking for a way to go back through the app. Not out of it, just back to a previous page. My brother had to show me as there's no back button. He also had to show me the double-tap on the home button to bring up a list of recent apps. Needless to say, I sat there for a bit trying to get around it. Had the same thing first time I ever tried to use a Mac too. But, once I knew, I knew.

A person who has never used a PC would take some time to figure it out. They don't just grab the mouse and start doing all there is or even the simplest things on a computer. When you purchase a new car, sure you can drive it (I hope) but it takes you time to figure out how to set up certain things. This is the reason the salesperson attempts to walk you through the car's features and functions.

This is the same reason that EVERY electronic device and gadget comes with a manual. If they were as intuitive as some of you say, there would be no need for a manual and the manufacturer could save some money by not writing them. Why pay some technical writer to scribe something that's unnecessary?

Now, ALL that being said, I'm not saying that 8 couldn't do things better (this is a beta and should get better), there's always room for improvement for anything. But, I'm certain Microsoft, as it has in the past, and as other companies/manufacturers do, will have some sort of instructions for its newest operating system.

[trag3dy]

You are aware that you can use it just about the same as windows 7, right? If you just want to use the desktop and not mess with the Metro stuff, all that will be different to you would be that the start menu looks different.

This is the thing I don't get. If you don't need to use the start screen at all then what's the point of even having it? The same people that say we shouldn't be able to get the old (current) start menu back seem to say that a lot and I don't get it. What's the point of the "change" if it's completely irrelevant?

I really don't see any reason why they can't give us an option to use one or the other the same way we can change around the task bar in Windows 7 now.

[.Neo]

Apple and Microsoft are both getting bad about ui intuitiveness. To add a space in Lion you have to over to mouse over the top right corner to get a plus popout. There is nothing that tells you a popout exist unless you just happen to mouse over to the area that activates it.

Now I know but the first time it took me half an hour to figure out how to add a damn space when before all you had to do was go to system preferences. There should be some kind of visual alert that mousing to the corners does something.

The [+] automatically pops up if you drag a window around in Mission Control, you can then drop the window onto the [+] to create a new space for whatever app you're working with. In any case I think Apple tried to make the manual usage of spaces / virtual desktops less prominent. When you think of it the way Linux and OS X (Snow) Leopard handle it is pretty user-unfriendly and tedious to set up. At least, I haven't seen a single causal user ever enable spaces. The new role of spaces in OS X Lion has to do with full-screen apps, where a new space is created automatically by pressing the full-screen button. The manual (old) way of using spaces isn't considered basic functionality anymore.

Now imagine if you had to access a similar [+]-popup to leave a full-screen app, shut down your Mac or access your apps. That's basically what's going on in Windows 8 right now.

[.Neo]

Then as far as PCs/Tech Gadgets go, I'd say there aren't any "truly intuitive products". There's a learning curve with everything. Do you know how many people I know with iphones, windows phones and androids that don't know how to do certain things on their phones? I showed somebody the other day, when trying to reply to one person in a group text, how to subtract the other names so she didn't reply to everyone. This person didn't have that person in their contacts. But, now she knows.

There's a distinct difference between basic functionality and more advanced. I firmly believe that when I have to search the internet to figure out how to shut down my computer a company is doing something wrong. Same goes with getting back to Start.

First time I ever sat down with the ipad (my brother's not mine) I tapped an icon and went into that app. Checked it out for a bit then started looking for a way to go back through the app. Not out of it, just back to a previous page. My brother had to show me as there's no back button. He also had to show me the double-tap on the home button to bring up a list of recent apps. Needless to say, I sat there for a bit trying to get around it. Had the same thing first time I ever tried to use a Mac too. But, once I knew, I knew.

What you're saying here doesn't make sense... To get to a previous page or menu within an app you don't double-press the home button. You only do that to exit an app and switch to another, which can also be achieved by just going back to the home screen (press the home button once, everyone knows that) and choose whatever app there. It's a little bit less efficient but point is you don't NEED to know about the double-press in order to switch to another app. If you want to go back within an app, say Safari or Mail, like you wanted to do there's ALWAYS a visible button on-screen. There's just no way to achieve that by pressing the home button (doesn't matter how many times), so what you're telling me simply isn't possible.

This is the same reason that EVERY electronic device and gadget comes with a manual. If they were as intuitive as some of you say, there would be no need for a manual and the manufacturer could save some money by not writing them. Why pay some technical writer to scribe something that's unnecessary?

Because most devices are extremely counter intuitive. That doesn't make it right though.

[notuptome2004]

This is the thing I don't get. If you don't need to use the start screen at all then what's the point of even having it? The same people that say we shouldn't be able to get the old (current) start menu back seem to say that a lot and I don't get it. What's the point of the "change" if it's completely irrelevant?

I really don't see any reason why they can't give us an option to use one or the other the same way we can change around the task bar in Windows 7 now.

Why should Microsoft spend more time and money on giving us 2 options to use one or the other it makes no since cause then you will have noobs new users to windows or computers in general get confused and be like well my brother or sister has windows 8 but it looks nothing like this i dont get it what is going on .

and as for change well Explain to me why we went from windows 3.1 to windows 95 same damn reason change is happening now because at some point change always happens 70 years from now do you think some damn tech geek is gonna ask Why he cant have the start Menu ... No he is not cause by then the whole start menu system even the start screen will have been replaced with something else that is not in the sight of current Microsoft employees .

i could just imaging the Bar Topic when the first first horseless carage arrived and what everyone siad ( oh pish posh why do i need a horseless carage when my Horse can get me ther just the same )

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

at some point change always happens

Only that this time, it's change for the worse, for a lot of desktop users at least.

Here's what's wrong with Windows 8.

[trag3dy]

Why should Microsoft spend more time and money on giving us 2 options to use one or the other it makes no since cause then you will have noobs new users to windows or computers in general get confused and be like well my brother or sister has windows 8 but it looks nothing like this i dont get it what is going on .

and as for change well Explain to me why we went from windows 3.1 to windows 95 same damn reason change is happening now because at some point change always happens 70 years from now do you think some damn tech geek is gonna ask Why he cant have the start Menu ... No he is not cause by then the whole start menu system even the start screen will have been replaced with something else that is not in the sight of current Microsoft employees .

i could just imaging the Bar Topic when the first first horseless carage arrived and what everyone siad ( oh pish posh why do i need a horseless carage when my Horse can get me ther just the same )

Just putting this out there.. what you're saying makes absolutely no sense.

A change that follows a natural evolution would be good. But the metro start screen is not the natural evolution of Windows on a desktop pc. It's microsoft forcing what they think we should be using onto us.

I've said this before but I'll use it as an example again. See the windows 7 task bar. It is the newest end result of a natural evolution from Windows 3.1 to 95, to 98, me, Xp, Vista, and then Windows 7. It remains constant yet changes. It's easily recognizable for what it is. Windows 8 metro start screen just throws everything out the window just for the sake of change. It's stupid.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

I'm sorry, but when talking about intuitiveness based on familiarity to previous versions, you just can't use that argument with Windows 8. Windows 8 isn't an evolution of Windows 7, it's an entirely new OS platform. The "Desktop"'s similarity to the previous OS version is just that, a vague similarity. Windows 8 IS Metro. The Desktop is just a compatibility environment for legacy apps not written for metro.

When the very first iPhone came out, how many people instantly knew how to operate it and access all the functions on it? Not many, it took a bit of time, tutorials and advertisements for people to learn all the shortcuts (double tap home for example). Windows 8 is no different. Going into Windows 8 expecting it to just be an evolution of Windows 7 is the root cause of most of the arguments here. Just forget that it's Windows and treat it as a new product called MetrOS and you'll pick it up and learn it just fine. When Windows 95 launched, nobody knew anything about taskbars, start menus or desktop and it took people a while to adjust (you click Start to shut down? :-o). But now, that style of OS is the accepted norm for desktop operating systems. After 17 years it's time to try something different.

If you don't want to move onto something new, then don't. Just don't expect another Windows version in the future with the old Desktop, Start Menu, Taskbar interface paradigm. Like it or not, Windows 7 was the last OS in that particular breed.

And for the record, you people don't really think Microsoft would make a change as big as this without COPIOUS amounts of UI testing with a broad selection of users "off the street"... do you? They have entire buildings dedicated to UI research and consumer testing.

[myxomatosis]

If you don't want to move onto something new, then don't. Just don't expect another Windows version in the future with the old Desktop, Start Menu, Taskbar interface paradigm. Windows 7 was the last OS in that particular breed.

Well, that's what MS wants... but in the end, this decision belongs to the consumer ;)

Metro is a "dumbification" of all we used for the last 20 years... I doubt it will work!

Edited March 13, 2012 by ~Johnny
M$ isn't a company. Keep it real.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

Well, that's what M$ wants... but in the end, this decision belongs to the consumer ;)

Metro is a "dumbification" of all we used for the last 20 years... I doubt it will work!

Simplification != "Dumbification". Most of the your average home users don't care about the vast majority of settings in Control Panel. Those they do care about are in the Metro version. Same for most other features. As I said, Microsoft collects a vast amount of telemetry about what people ACTUALLY click on and use in Windows, not just what you and the other metrophobes estimate that people use. This isn't just guesswork.

"of all we used for the last 20 years" ... that's the point... forget about the past 20 years. This is a new platform, not just an update to the previous one.

[V23]

Windows 8 will flop big time. I don't see this "Frankeinstein" of an operating system getting installed in companies. Companies don't have time, money and ressources to waste with that.

Already mentioned on the Windows 8 blog that they are targeting consumers with Windows 8 as companies are only now upgrading to Windows 7. I believe they will look at catering Metro to business with Windows 9, down the track.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

Already mentioned on the Windows 8 blog that they are targeting consumers with Windows 8 as companies are only now upgrading to Windows 7. I believe they will look at catering Metro to business with Windows 9, down the track.

Possibly. I don't think so though. I had to give a presentation to my company's group head of IT today on the topic of Windows 8 after he received an email from our Microsoft account manager on the subject. There is some pretty compelling "how this will benefit your business" documentation doing the rounds. So, I've built a Windows 8 machine at work for people to play around with, and our app developers are already throwing ideas around about developing Metro versions of some our business applications. They're pretty excited about the possibilities and the ease of coding that Metro gives them, they've also got some excellent ideas for some "thinking out of the box" applications for shop floor terminals, visitor terminals in reception and around the offices, etc.

I think they probably need to tone down the tile colours in a business version of Windows 8 though... not sure a multi-coloured tile front-end quite gels with our corporate branding. But all the other features of Metro... Sharing between apps, Skydrive (or other cloud storage) integration, live tiles showing meetings other business data and emails, etc, will offer concrete business benefit to our average (majority of people) PC/Laptop user who just uses Email, Web and Office.

[.Neo]

Already mentioned on the Windows 8 blog that they are targeting consumers with Windows 8 as companies are only now upgrading to Windows 7. I believe they will look at catering Metro to business with Windows 9, down the track.

If that's true I'm really hoping Windows 8 will still offer a Metro environment that's a whole lot more complete than it is now. At this point there's just so much missing it isn't even funny anymore. I really expected the CP to be more finished.

[McKay]

This video just proves everything I've been saying so far in all the Windows 8 threads on here. Normal people won't understand how to use it.

"Normal" people can just about use XP or 7, but not without ladening them with viruses and other crapware. Yes he was unfamiliar with Windows 8, but the first time I sat in front of a mac, I got horribly lost, confused at the simplest things, and had to ask for help how to do anything. I remember having a panic attack when I was on photoshop, I accidentally clicked the background, and all of photoshop vanished. I had no idea what the dock was or did.

[AWilliams87]

Intuitiveness is a red herring. It's not about whether you can learn everything the first time you sit down to use a computer, but if you can remember how to do things after being taught once.

It's interesting to note that the OP posted the clip instead of the full video where once the dad actually understood how to use the new UI, he said "it's actually very easy once you've learned it".

[remixedcat]

:rofl: :rofl:

But seriously, just hit the Windows key on Keyboard. That is what you are supposed to do when you are lost

great! now people will be going to mapquest's facebook page asking for directions how to use windows 8!!! LMAO

[Planar1280]

Enough Said

[Brian Miller]

Microsoft show be adding to a product, not removing.

Had Microsoft fired it's HCI staff? Perhaps they all went to work for Apple.

[-=Outlaw=-]

Enough Said

He is still using Windows XP, Enough Said.

[Planar1280]

He is still using Windows XP, Enough Said.

thats an excuse? seriously?

[Lels]

Although I like the video, this is the 3rd or 4th time its been posted...

[scumdogmillionaire]

Valid demonstration.

[Planar1280]

Another user

[HellboundIRL]

I worked in tech support around the time Vista was released, I pity those working in tech support when 8 is released.... :pinch:

[Stetson]

I think this makes a pretty good point. Especially the second video, I would say he has a pretty good knowledge of Windows, definitely better than average.

I like Metro, but I find the mouse-gesture access to the Start screen and the Charms bar to be a bit finicky. Definitely not intuitive.

Gestures should be like keyboard shortcuts. There should be other ways to do the same thing.

I think they should bring back the Start button just like it was in the Developer Preview build.

If there's one thing that many users have actually picked up about how to use a Windows PC, it's the Start button. Microsoft has been pounding that into users for over 15 years now.

Even now that I know the gestures and have used them for a week with Win8 as my main OS, I still think it isn't a great way to handle things. It for sure shouldn't be the only way (The Windows key and Win+key shortcuts are also pretty meaningless for many users).

There are more things too, like the fact that there are two control panels :wacko: