win8 Windows 8 - intuitive or not?

[Dot Matrix]

There are more things too, like the fact that there are two control panels :wacko:

I'm kinda hoping they can move the old desktop one into the Metro one.

Users have been pushing for years for a unified Control Panel, and now Microsoft gives us two!?

[greenwizard88]

I'm kinda hoping they can move the old desktop one into the Metro one.

Users have been pushing for years for a unified Control Panel, and now Microsoft gives us two!?

At least the icons in the new one all match :p

[migo]

I think the video is spot on. A truly intuitive product is one where the basics are understood right away, not through tutorials, reading manuals or other forms of outside help. As such those "Charms" are extremely counter-intuitive because you won't be able to figure them out without an explanation. Now if they were used for some extra functionality it wouldn't be such an issue, but no, currently Microsoft is forcing you to use them in order to access very basic functions like going back to Start or shut down your PC. It's an usability disaster waiting to happen even if Microsoft adds tutorials to Windows 8.

Hell, a friend of mine did the same to me as the guy filming the video. All he said to me "You try turning off the PC [running Windows 8 CP]". After 5 minutes of searching I gave up and launched Internet Explorer tot Google for help. That's really not how an operating system should work.

For your post to have any meaning you would need to provide an example of a truly intuitive product that didn't require education, and forgetting how you learned Windows 95 doesn't count.

Already mentioned on the Windows 8 blog that they are targeting consumers with Windows 8 as companies are only now upgrading to Windows 7. I believe they will look at catering Metro to business with Windows 9, down the track.

Not too different from Fedora and RHEL.

[Stetson]

I'm kinda hoping they can move the old desktop one into the Metro one.

Users have been pushing for years for a unified Control Panel, and now Microsoft gives us two!?

And even the new one still has some quirks. First, it's a bit odd to access (Gesture to get the charms bar -> Settings -> More PC Settings). Also, when I go to Charms->Devices I only get one item listed (Second Screen). When I go to Charms->Settings->More PC Settings->Devices I get an entirely different list. :s

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

Completely agree with both these "reviews", the new interface is anything but intuitive.

Granted, Microsoft may add some kind of tutorials when you first install, possibly even by following Ubuntu's example and having tutorials showing during the actual install (which I love because it gives you something to do while waiting for the install, even though I've already read it many times and already know what it's telling me).

Although, what I found interesting in both videos is that neither person tried pressing the windows key on the keyboard which, as most experienced people will know by now, brings up the start page but hiding the applications away in layers of fancy UI is wrong, people want to get to the apps the way they already know how, the same way they've done since Windows 95 all the way up until the "touch centric" Windows 8.

I've said it before and I'll insist it again, Windows 8 should have had a "Windows 8 Touch" edition for the tablets and they should have left the same interface for other computers.

Why do Microsoft insist on messing up every alternate release?! (Windows ME, Windows Vista and now Windows 8)

The start button was better in the developer preview, although very ugly looking (as I think the whole Metro interface is, I'm not a big fan at all) but at least it gave less experienced computer users something familiar to work with, very little in Windows 8 is familiar to users like the ones we've seen in these videos and that's why it's going to fail...badly.

[Wyn6]

What you're saying here doesn't make sense... To get to a previous page or menu within an app you don't double-press the home button. You only do that to exit an app and switch to another, which can also be achieved by just going back to the home screen (press the home button once, everyone knows that) and choose whatever app there. It's a little bit less efficient but point is you don't NEED to know about the double-press in order to switch to another app. If you want to go back within an app, say Safari or Mail, like you wanted to do there's ALWAYS a visible button on-screen. There's just no way to achieve that by pressing the home button (doesn't matter how many times), so what you're telling me simply isn't possible.

Read my post again. That's not what I said. I said he showed me how to double-tap in order to bring up a list of most recent apps, not go back through the app I was in. However, I will concede that perhaps my wording wasn't precise enough hence the misunderstanding.

[bjoswald]

Well, if Apple's stock suddenly surges, I think we know why. :shifty:

[Mohitster]

This video is epic!

[efjay]

You people are really trying hard to spread FUD. I wonder how these "experts" reacted when they first encountered Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista then 7. Did they know where everything was, how to use every new feature introduced in each new OS version? Why us it that it is expected thst users will be able to use Windows 8, a completely new OS without any guide, and then bashing the OS when it has been deliberately setup to fail usability tests?

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

Chris Pirillo being his usual Mac biased self only showed you the part of the video where his dad first is confronted with the new UI, if you watch the full version you see he does get pretty much used to the new control system but, unsurprisingly, being an older computer user he wants to stick with what he knows, which, for him, is Windows XP.

Click

to see the more full indication of his first Windows 8 experience, where it hasn't been edited to Chris's Mac biased snippit. In the full version it takes him 10 minutes to learn how to transition between the start page and other apps, 10 minutes is not really a horrendous learning curve, after around 30 minutes, he's figured out how to organise and transition between all his open apps, again, not a huge amount of time.

I really would have liked to watch him spend a couple of hours with it (although it might be a boring video I think it would be more indicative of a typical user's first experience) because I think he would pretty much have become "in control" of his computer.

Most people who don't have experience with computing who get their first computer will most likely be spending a few hours learning how to use it, with a nice beer, cup of coffee or whatever, from what I've seen of the fuller video, his experience wouldn't have differed that much from any other OS.

You'll see that Chris is running it inside Parallels which interferes with the Windows 8 experience where most of the transitions depend on hovering over each corner but this is blocked because when he tries to hover over the top 2 corners he brought up the Parallels menu.

[Stetson]

Chris Pirillo being his usual Mac biased self only showed you the part of the video where his dad first is confronted with the new UI, if you watch the full version you see he does get pretty much used to the new control system but, unsurprisingly, being an older computer user he wants to stick with what he knows, which, for him, is Windows XP.

Click

to see the more full indication of his first Windows 8 experience, where it hasn't been edited to Chris's Mac biased snippit.

You'll see that Chris is running it inside Parallels which interferes with the Windows 8 experience where most of the transitions depend on hovering over each corner but this is blocked because when he tries to hover over the top 2 corners he brought up the Parallels menu.

I think the second video posted is a much better indication. There you have someone who's actually fairly familiar and competent with Windows (he ended up trying to launch programs by going and finding the executables in /Program Files/!) Who was still completely lost because of the gesture based navigation system.

[ArialBlue]

He figured it out a few minutes.

[.Neo]

Read my post again. That's not what I said. I said he showed me how to double-tap in order to bring up a list of most recent apps, not go back through the app I was in. However, I will concede that perhaps my wording wasn't precise enough hence the misunderstanding.

Regardless, you don't really need to access that specific list of open apps. Sure it's faster and more convenient and those things you'll learn in time. However, like the video demonstrates I'm finding it unbelievable that Microsoft comes up with a new way of going back to Start or shut down your computer no one will figure out by themselves.

For your post to have any meaning you would need to provide an example of a truly intuitive product that didn't require education, and forgetting how you learned Windows 95 doesn't count.

Like I said, so far I find the basic usability of iOS pretty intuitive. Before we begin arguing about all the little details I'm talking about the real basics, the bare minimum to operate a device. If my 3-yo nephew managed to figure out how to turn on my former 2007 iPod touch, look around some of my photos and turning it back off again when he was done without me telling him anything beyond the pass code Apple must have done something right. I'll say again, this was back in November 2007. Before the iPhone was launched in the Netherlands and the first month the initial iPod touch was released. Same goes for my mom, she's everything but technical but she figured out the basics of the device very quickly all by herself.

With Windows 8 Microsoft managed to create an interface where users won't be able to figure things out on their own since there's nothing visual to go by. Why this is, no idea. God knows Metro fills more than enough of my 27-inch screen with emptiness...

[Lels]

He might of figured it out in a few minutes, but most average users aren't going to want to take any time to figure out how to use Windows 8. Just imagine all these average users who just stick to XP even for example. If they won't even upgrade from XP to Vista/7 because they are familiar and comfortable with XP, then what in the world makes anyone think they would go to Windows 8?

[Kaoxt]

You people are really trying hard to spread FUD. I wonder how these "experts" reacted when they first encountered Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista then 7. Did they know where everything was, how to use every new feature introduced in each new OS version? Why us it that it is expected thst users will be able to use Windows 8, a completely new OS without any guide, and then bashing the OS when it has been deliberately setup to fail usability tests?

What do all the versions you just described though all have in common? Start button. Windows 8 is entirely different, and at least for me cannot stand their whole "Metro" style.

I was debating between OSX and Windows for awhile now, and I know for me at least Windows 8 is making the decision easy for me to switch to OSX. Picking up a new Mac as soon as the 2012 versions come out.

[techguy77]

People like me figured this out in 10 minutes. Now it is not about figuring out where is what but how to get there and whole flow.

[Wyn6]

In 30 minutes with no tutorial at all, the guy had pretty much figured out how to navigate 8. How does this help the arguments of those who say average users will never get it?

[ozgeek]

Why do Microsoft insist on messing up every alternate release?! (Windows ME, Windows Vista and now Windows 8)

That's what I've been saying for a long time but gets attacked by those who love changes. You can only change so much before it gets more confusing and harder to use. Remember newer version is NOT always better. It might improve in some areas but it can bring in lots of new problems

Microsoft is known to develop software then kill it or trash it with pointless features. Eventually, they might be forced to wipe clean windows and start a new OS. Microsoft should develop software that is familar to everyone so they can use it out of box.

I don't want to say this but...

"I told you so!"

He figured it out a few minutes.

My parents figured out how to start apps in a few seconds on XP. It took them 10 seconds to start Solitaire. The start button is out there where people can see it easily and indicates there is more if he/she clicks it. On Win8 how do a user knows there is a start screen button anywhere on the desktop? how does he find it? By clicking his mouse cursar all over the screen on it pops up? If you hide buttons or options, people won't find it.

[Argi]

While these videos are somewhat valid, I'd be more curious to see how well these people use the UI after they've been told how to use the UI to see how quickly they pick it up and get into the flow. It's not a stretch to say that MS will add some sort of first use guide for new users to get them started.

People seem happier to focus on the negatives, though.

What do all the versions you just described though all have in common? Start button. Windows 8 is entirely different, and at least for me cannot stand their whole "Metro" style.

I was debating between OSX and Windows for awhile now, and I know for me at least Windows 8 is making the decision easy for me to switch to OSX. Picking up a new Mac as soon as the 2012 versions come out.

Is there some reason that you have to change? You can always stick with Windows 7 and, if you're complaining about the lack of the start button, trust me - you'll be driven nuts after a little while in OSX. After a month of having no desktop and only my Mac laptop I was clamoring for a Win 7 installer so I could install over it.

[ozgeek]

Yes it is best to focus on negitives so they can be turned into positives.

[zhangm Supervisor]

While these videos are somewhat valid, I'd be more curious to see how well these people use the UI after they've been told how to use the UI to see how quickly they pick it up and get into the flow. It's not a stretch to say that MS will add some sort of first use guide for new users to get them started.

People seem happier to focus on the negatives, though.

It is going to be an uphill battle, just like getting people used to UAC and the search bar in the Start menu. I also find the line between attributing something to user stupidity versus a poorly designed interface to be a bit amusing. Just imagine the response on these forums if someone posted a complaint that the taskbar in Windows 7 isn't large enough to hold all their programs. They're an idiot, right? What about someone that pins everything to the Start screen? Oh noes, bad interface! Too much scrolling!

[Argi]

It is going to be an uphill battle, just like getting people used to UAC and the search bar in the Start menu. I also find the line between attributing something to user stupidity versus a poorly designed interface to be a bit amusing. Just imagine the response on these forums if someone posted a complaint that the taskbar in Windows 7 isn't large enough to hold all their programs. They're an idiot, right? What about someone that pins everything to the Start screen? Oh noes, bad interface! Too much scrolling!

I didn't say anything about it being good or bad just that I'd be curious to see how the workflow changes once people DO know the intended behaviour of things. Whether it makes a huge difference or if it's still a struggle.

[game_over]

The final version will ship with some sort of tour app that runs when you first logon that will take you through the new features.. it's such a big change Microsoft would be stupid not to do this?

I haven't really been following Windows 8 but skimming through that video it looks like you need to go back to metro to launch apps? or is there a way to do it in desktop? if not then that is one massive failure. The animations and UI does look enticing, it's colourful, swishy and definitely draws you in... but i think it looks gimmicky. It will be nice for tablets but doing hardcore work on a PC (design, development, or w/e) then it could get messy.

[johnporter29]

seen it quite a few times, 3rd time it's been posted:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1063620-windows-8-intuitive-or-not/

Is the search function broke?

[Lee G. Veteran]

seen it quite a few times, 3rd time it's been posted:

http://www.neowin.ne...tuitive-or-not/

Is the search function broke?

Threads merged.