win8 Windows 8 - intuitive or not?

[deleted_acc]

it's not unlearnable, its just crap. Can't you at least accept that if there are so many forums and posts about how much people don't like the new interface that there might be something wrong with it. Every time i go back and use it i find there is something else that i can't use as well as windows 7. I can , and have, LEARNED how to use it, in fact i didn't have to be shown how to use it I just figured it out, but i still don't like it and i still think its not very good for every day desktop use. Come on picture trying to do some serious work on this, coding or graphics design. Have a few Word docs open, maybe photoshop and notepad, maybe some html editor .... press start.... ahhhh frustration, what was i looking for.... for example :p

for example, don't push start, hit search

and yeah, I can accept that many people does not like it; on the other hand you should accept that some other guy can use it just well

to be honest I don't really know why you want to push the start button in your example, but okay :-P

I do work on computers and really, I don't use the programs option in the start menu since Vista, I only search cause i'm faster that way

[whyme]

not

[Calum Veteran]

I've found it intuitive, as far as I can tell; however, I believe I was told about using the corners and other such things before I used it, so I'm probably not the best person to judge that :p

I can see how some users might not think to hover toward the corners. I believe some kind of tutorial video, that can be played as soon as the user uses Windows 8 for the first time, would be sufficient, if there was a way for the user to easily find that help again. If users pay attention to such a video, they should understand how to use it, after watching the video.

[migo]

Like I said, so far I find the basic usability of iOS pretty intuitive. Before we begin arguing about all the little details I'm talking about the real basics, the bare minimum to operate a device. If my 3-yo nephew managed to figure out how to turn on my former 2007 iPod touch, look around some of my photos and turning it back off again when he was done without me telling him anything beyond the pass code Apple must have done something right. I'll say again, this was back in November 2007. Before the iPhone was launched in the Netherlands and the first month the initial iPod touch was released. Same goes for my mom, she's everything but technical but she figured out the basics of the device very quickly all by herself.

With Windows 8 Microsoft managed to create an interface where users won't be able to figure things out on their own since there's nothing visual to go by. Why this is, no idea. God knows Metro fills more than enough of my 27-inch screen with emptiness...

A 3 year old doesn't really say anything. A 3 year old can learn to speak a language without any teaching or prior linguistic background.

My girlfriend who describes her computer as making swallowing sounds and thinks putting an Apple sticker on a Windows laptop to trick people is computer savvy figured out how to use Windows Phone without me teaching anything, and she predicted based on the videos that she wouldn't like it because she can't handle spatial recognition well. She really, really likes the new Metro UI on the Xbox, and thinks it's way easier to use than anything that was there before.

Metro is going to work just fine, Windows 8 is just an unfinished product and has the difficult task of providing legacy support instead of being able to start from scratch with a more controlled experience. The problems with Windows 8 are all related to the transition between Metro and Legacy mode, which is as unavoidable as still relying on DOS for some stuff in Windows 95 and even 98 was until everything in the GUIDE finally caught up.

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

This is a video of Chris Pirillo's father trying to use Windows 8 for the first time:

No, that is a video that Chris Pirillo, that well known Mac fanboy, has edited. If you watch the

without the blatant bias that he edited the other video with, you'd see that within about half an hour his dad is pretty much au fait with the main interface, you'd also see that the fact he's using it inside Parallels means that Parallels interferes with the Win 8 interface.

[.Neo]

I can see how some users might not think to hover toward the corners. I believe some kind of tutorial video, that can be played as soon as the user uses Windows 8 for the first time, would be sufficient, if there was a way for the user to easily find that help again. If users pay attention to such a video, they should understand how to use it, after watching the video.

I thought about that since Apple included similar video tutorials with OS X Lion for the multi-touch gestures, but consider this for a second:

- You're either running Windows 7 (or below) or OS X at home

- You never used Windows 8 before

- You're confronted somewhere with a Windows 8 machine.

Then what? You haven't seen the tutorials since you're not the one who set up the PC, you don't know how to access them or that the even exist. You'll actually need someone to explain you the basics before you can get anything done. For businesses alone this is going to be a real pain.

It's just bad interface design.

No, that is a video that Chris Pirillo, that well known Mac fanboy, has edited. If you watch the

without the blatant bias that he edited the other video with, you'd see that within about half an hour his dad is pretty much au fait with the main interface, you'd also see that the fact he's using it inside Parallels means that Parallels interferes with the Win 8 interface.

You can wake up and smell the coffee because running Windows 8 full-screen in VMware Fusion or Parallels won't interfere with the interface. Accessing Charms in windowed mode can be a challenge, that's a non-issue in full-screen. You can cry "Mac fanboy" all you want but that won't change he has a valid point: There are no visual cues to the existence of Charms, at all as such there's no real way of knowing they're there. Hell, a Mac user is more likely to find out about them since hot corners have been a part of the platform for ages.

[Som]

for example, don't push start, hit search

and yeah, I can accept that many people does not like it; on the other hand you should accept that some other guy can use it just well

i can accept that just fine, all i want is an option for Desktop or non-touch mode when setting up

to be honest I don't really know why you want to push the start button in your example, but okay :-P

I do work on computers and really, I don't use the programs option in the start menu since Vista, I only search cause i'm faster that way

i also use the search , its faster particularly in windows 7. didn't mention anything about using the all programs option...

[deleted_acc]

i also use the search , its faster particularly in windows 7. didn't mention anything about using the all programs option...

then the only problem is that you used to the start menu search? can understand that but that can be "unlearned" really quickly, I only use Win8 since CP (DP was too alpha for me to use on a daily basis) and the new search became a second habit since then... in metro mode just typing and finding, on the desktop just using the hotkey for it... think it's better than before; not saying that Win8 has no ergonomy problems, it's teeming with them but I hope these will be addressed until RTM - until then I provide feedback as many times I find something :)

[Wyn6]

Anecdotally, I searched for "How to get burned milk out of a pot" from my Start Screen. Brilliant!

[Aergan]

I think some helpful overlays on the Metro and Desktop screens for first logon would be nice just to guide a user around the basics of navigation, application selecting/management, how to activate the screen area features and how to activate/use the Charm bar

[Som]

then the only problem is that you used to the start menu search? can understand that but that can be "unlearned" really quickly, I only use Win8 since CP (DP was too alpha for me to use on a daily basis) and the new search became a second habit since then... in metro mode just typing and finding, on the desktop just using the hotkey for it... think it's better than before; not saying that Win8 has no ergonomy problems, it's teeming with them but I hope these will be addressed until RTM - until then I provide feedback as many times I find something :)

your not getting it, i find the start screen is the problem, its not a matter of getting used to it, its obtrusive for Desktops. I don't like the hot corners, (at least the way they work at the moment) and the charm bar is useless

I think some helpful overlays on the Metro and Desktop screens for first logon would be nice just to guide a user around the basics of navigation, application selecting/management, how to activate the screen area features and how to activate/use the Charm bar

not a bad idea, a lot of android apps like ES file explorer do this in a nice way...

[Stoffel]

I agree that Win8 might not be intuitive enough.

But if somebody with the right attitude explains you the basics and shows you around for 5 minutes, you should feel right at home.

Some people here make it sound like nothing is the same anymore.

The two videos posted here are also very biased. You can here it in the undertone of the guys talking to their fathers.

Specially the second video, that one almost seemed scripted to me.

[techbeck]

Took me only 5 min to find everything on Win8. But for lots who are not familiar with how MS works, its going to be a big change for them and they will have problems. Just like a lot of people I used to work with had issues when MS rolled our the ribbon instead of the old style menu bar.

[Pwnadoggy]

I've got it installed on my laptop which I take into work each day. Liking the new Start screen as well after organizing it. It's a mess after installing a few apps.

I'm liking Metro so far although I could do without the charms bar. I'm using the remote desktop app a lot, just pin it to the side of the screen and keep an eye on how remote installs and other things are going along. Shame the Mail/Calendar/Messaging App Preview apps aren't as polished yet. Exchange support so far in Mail is horrendous. I'd love to be able to use them like I've been using the remote desktop app though.

The biggest problem I find with Windows 8 is when co-workers need to use my laptop for a moment. They'll figure out how it works, but I have to give them a few pointers.

If you take the time to learn the new UI and customize it to your likings, Windows 8 will work just fine.

And there lies the problem.

Anyone who is used to Windows XP can easily get Solitaire to open on Windows 7 as well. When my parents switched from XP to 7 last year, I didn't even need to help.

The same can't be said for Windows 8. I can't put a non tech-savvy person behind this machine and expect them to be able to use it.

People will need some pointers even for basic stuff, like how to shut down the machine. And that's going to be the biggest challenge for WIndows 8.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

More than 300,000 views already :o

No, that is a video that Chris Pirillo, that well known Mac fanboy, has edited. If you watch the

without the blatant bias that he edited the other video with, you'd see that within about half an hour his dad is pretty much au fait with the main interface, you'd also see that the fact he's using it inside Parallels means that Parallels interferes with the Win 8 interface.

Yes. It's a bit of an unfair setup.

Notice in the longer video though, that the father is completely lost when he is asked to open the calculator and the calendar next to each other.

[jakem1]

I'm not sure when old-aged fathers became the yardstick against which operating systems were measured but I know that I could sit either of my parents down in front of any version of Windows and achieve fairly similar results. My mother constantly struggles to understand how the Windows 7 taskbar works, calls Internet Explorer hotmail and has no idea where her documents go when she saves them.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Windows 8 will ship with tutorials and visual cues to familiarise people with the new UI. MS would be pretty silly not to do something to educate users.

Also, Windows 8 doesn't mark the first time MS hid a key interface element. The control box in the top-right corner of each application's window disappeared in Windows 7 but still functions if you click on it. I don't remember hearing anyone complain about that ;)

Most of the complaints about the Start button sound like the complaints about the new taskbar when the Windows 7 beta was released. Everyone moaned that they needed to see taskbar button labels and that the combined buttons were too confusing. They wanted the default taskbar configuration to look like XP/Vista. Fast forward to today and everyone is happy to have taskbar buttons combined with hidden labels as the default and very few people change their setup. The same goes for the location of the Show Desktop button in Windows 7.

Finally, those of you who argue that Windows 8 is change for the sake of change are just wrong. The Start menu has been getting more and more cluttered over the years and the Start screen fixes problems with its organisation that have existed since Windows 95. I get that people don't like the changes but it's silly to argue that they serve no purpose.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

So it appears that this is the tutorial everybody's been expecting?

[devHead]

Move your mouse into any corner. But we'll show you just doing it in the upper right hand corner. You don't want to see what happens when you hover to the upper left hand corner (nothing, unless you're running a Metro app) or the lower left hand corner, or the lower right hand corner, since you'll probably end up clicking the clock that's down there. (Oh yeah, and we're not going to show you how to find the Start menu, except from the Charms bar. Why say 'any corner' and then just repeat 4 times moving your mouse into the top right corner? Again, it just feels ultra dumbed down simplified.

And can someone please tell me what the heck the Devices charm is for? I click Devices, and it says "Desktop Nothing can be sent from the desktop." and a link for Second screen. Why not replace that with a Shut Down, Restart, Sleep button instead? And put "Devices" in with Settings. Maybe that's just me.

[xendrome]

They don't even touch on closing metro apps by grabbing them at the top and dragging down, do they?

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

They don't even touch on closing metro apps by grabbing them at the top and dragging down, do they?

It's not strictly necessary to know about that, is it? I would expect regular users to simply never close them. Which should work out just fine.

[Defcon]

Win 8 is completely unintuitive, non discoverable and nonsensical on a non touch device. It doesn't matter how many blog posts they make on B8 about buzzwords like consistency and change. Adding a tutorial to something that's extremely hard to use and offers no benefits doesn't suddenly make it better.

It's not strictly necessary to know about that, is it? I would expect regular users to simply never close them. Which should work out just fine.

Have you ever seen a normal user try to use Metro apps? They have no clue how to get back to their desktop. Even if they remember to use the Windows key, it just brings them to start screen, from which they have to now find and click the desktop tile. The whole thing is nonsense.

Closing an app and switching away from it are both extremely difficult in Win 8. And they expect users to figure out how to dock apps to the side?!

[guru]

Win 8 is completely unintuitive, non discoverable and nonsensical on a non touch device. It doesn't matter how many blog posts they make on B8 about buzzwords like consistency and change. Adding a tutorial to something that's extremely hard to use and offers no benefits doesn't suddenly make it better.

Have you ever seen a normal user try to use Metro apps? They have no clue how to get back to their desktop. Even if they remember to use the Windows key, it just brings them to start screen, from which they have to now find and click the desktop tile. The whole thing is nonsense.

Closing an app and switching away from it are both extremely difficult in Win 8. And they expect users to figure out how to dock apps to the side?!

+1

not to mention, trying to find programs in the cluttered start screen is a nightmare. god help you if you have lots of programs installed. you better know the name of every single app you have because, search is the only quick way to launch an app from the start screen - quick being relative

[Nothing Here]

My wife and 10yr old daughter picked it up fairly quickly. Anyways, once you get used to Metro, the system is actually much better then 7.

[guru]

My wife and 10yr old daughter picked it up fairly quickly. Anyways, once you get used to Metro, the system is actually much better then 7.

metro by itself is just fine. the trouble starts if you are primary desktop mode user

[Dot Matrix]

Win 8 is completely unintuitive, non discoverable and nonsensical on a non touch device. It doesn't matter how many blog posts they make on B8 about buzzwords like consistency and change. Adding a tutorial to something that's extremely hard to use and offers no benefits doesn't suddenly make it better.

Have you ever seen a normal user try to use Metro apps? They have no clue how to get back to their desktop. Even if they remember to use the Windows key, it just brings them to start screen, from which they have to now find and click the desktop tile. The whole thing is nonsense.

Closing an app and switching away from it are both extremely difficult in Win 8. And they expect users to figure out how to dock apps to the side?!

It's not hard to use at all. Just different. Seriously, once you sit down with it for a bit, it becomes second nature.