Why didn't MS segregate the tablet UI from the desktop UI?

[KevinN206]

I thought Vista was fine also. Drivers weren't an issue for me either.

Haha soooo true!

There is no familiarity! Screw all this PC 2.0 bullsh*t, I want something I can easily navigate around in. Metro is simply not good enough for a power user.

For example - Try finding the classic control panel in the Metro UI, or even the Desktop environment without having to resort to searching in the Metro UI. That's something power users / geeks will be going to most days of their Windows 8 life....

Windows 7 -

1. Start menu

2. Control Panel

Windows 8 -

1. Press Desktop on the Metro UI

2. Go to the libraries icon on the taskbar

3. Press Computer on the left file tree

4. Hover over the first tab (skip this step if you prefer the ribbon expanded like me)

5. Press Control Panel

2 or 3 extra unnecessary steps to get to the same place in both Windows 7 and Windows 8. Microsoft have literally given no design thought for the Geeks and power users. They just thought, oh lets shove their stuff in the corner and haul all the consumer bullsh*t in.

Microsoft has really dropped the ball on Windows 8 so far. The Metro UI, simply doesn't work efficiently enough for me and others (reference the Front page poll 60|40). It feels like Microsoft is leaving the power users in the dirt trail behind them in the search for Dumb users. In fact now I think of it, they can't be searching designing it for dumb users either as there is no intuitiveness, how on earth are regular joes expected to shut down their PC's at night time? How are they supposed to know how to find out or know what the charm bar is? Who the f**k have Microsoft designed Windows 8 for?!

Callums reply saying I haven't used it long enough in 3...2...1...

I kid :p

Actually, if you go to the bottom-left corner where the start button is, and right-click, then you'll see all the common power user tools. And Control Panel is one of them. See http://www.winsupers...sks-menu-142525

[+LogicalApex MVC]

You say you tried Windows 8 out, but then you erroneously claimed that one has to swipe up in order to access the login screen :/ That is not true at all; as I have pointed out, one just needs to press Enter on the keyboard. Are you sure you gave Windows 8 a fair chance, used it with an open mind, and tried it out thoroughly? You not knowing the best way to access the login screen using a mouse indicates to me that you didn't try it out thoroughly.

Help me understand why users should be forced to "have an open mind" when evaluating a product that wants them to spend their money on it. I don't need to try Windows 8 with an open mind, though I feel I have, or anything else for that matter. Microsoft chose to make huge changes that I don't see as beneficial in the slightest. I have used them and I don't feel I want to learn a plathora of new stupid "gestures" and "hot spots" and whatever else they thought statistics told them I should want...

Luckily for me I have a wallet and I'll ignore the Windows 8 release on my desktop (though I am considering a tablet still) :).

I'm not going to force myself to like Windows 8. I don't force myself to like things I spend my money on. That's not how it works.

[MorganX]

left and right is just.... wrong...

Not on a 16:9 aspect ration touch device ;>

[Dot Matrix]

Hey

They should give us a switch to turn it off, or a choice to disable it without messing with task manger... I could live metro if the give me back the stat menu...

Windows 8 IS Metro. IS, IS, IS, IS!

You turn off Metro, and you turn off Windows 8!

[MorganX]

Curious, all the apps in the preview store are tablet type apps ... interesting.

Windows 8 IS Metro. IS, IS, IS, IS!

You turn off Metro, and you turn off Windows 8!

No. Metro is the Start Button, but it's not Windows 8. It is the shell, just as Explorer is the shell in Windows 7.

[djdanster]

Set taskbar to view Computer, Personal Folder, Control Panel, & Favorites as a menu instead of link. Now tell me how to duplicate that accessibility, functionality, and efficiency in Windows 8 ... I can hover on personal folders and with one click go through just about every piece of data on my PC all within no more than 1/4 of my screen space and that's only with a deeply nested folder. Like I said elsewhere, Windows 8 isn't "that" bad, Windows 7 is "that" good.

The point I'm trying to get at is I shouldn't need to alter things. The simple things should be there waiting for me from the get go.

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I've been reading the Jonathan Ive interview with the London Evening Standard. One Q&A sparked my attention :

Q: Why has Apple?s competition struggled to do that?

A: That?s quite unusual, most of our competitors are interesting in doing something different, or want to appear new - I think those are completely the wrong goals. A product has to be genuinely better. This requires real discipline, and that?s what drives us - a sincere, genuine appetite to do something that is better. Committees just don?t work, and it?s not about price, schedule or a bizarre marketing goal to appear different - they are corporate goals with scant regard for people who use the product.

I agree with this guy 100%. Instead of Microsoft doing something new, improve off of the desktop UI everybody knows and is used too. If they're that **desperate** to create something new and shiny, create something completely new for touch screen devices and those who want it on a non-touch screen device, separate the Metro UI into the new OS and leave the traditional desktop alone! Don't screw around with something people are becoming more and more reliant on. Companies have no interest in training their staff for a new design change every 4 or 5 years due to HUGE monetary funds and staff time required . Keep it simple and everything people are already used to. If you start messing with that, people are likely to throw the keyboard at their screens :argh:.

It almost feels as if the original idea of Windows eera has gone.

They may as well call Windows 8 Metrows... Sinofsky your ideologies suck!!!!

[Woelfel]

Like I said way back on page two...

Mechanics (Techies) can still do what they want to their cars just with extra layers (made for average users to make life easier). Average users can use the car (computer) for the most part without the need for a mechanic until something goes wrong. That is the purpose of this change.

[djdanster]

>>Who the f**k have Microsoft designed Windows 8 for?!<<

Not who, rather what? Tablets, Ultrabooks, and Transformers with a touchscreen, lol. But we need to differentiate Windows 8 from the Metro/Desktop hybrid UI/UX. If not for the mish-mash UI, Windows 8 would be the greatest OS ever. Under the hood its awesome, unfortunately, it's the UI humans interface with to take advantage of all the underlying technology.

I don't think this Hybrid UI was a knee-jerk reaction, I think it was a fearful reaction. With iPad 3's setting presales records, you can understand why. Apple is off to the same headstart and impenetrable mindshare with iPads as they got off to with iPhones. Android is doing well only because they are the cheap commodity alternative.

Yea fair point, I can agree with that. Microsoft obviously need to extend their market for the other forms of PC's.

The UI is all over the place, even inside the Metro interface!

The underlying bits are awesome, the other windows 8 additions that haven't really had the spotlight rock!

Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, but it lacks functionality BIG time!

Side note - 1500th post woot!

[Dot Matrix]

It is the shell, just as Explorer is the shell in Windows 7.

Precisely what I am saying.

Like it or not, the classic desktop is a dying concept to Microsoft, and the computing industry as a whole. There's a paradigm shift, and until it levels off, we're going to have this bit of awkwardness. But one thing is fo sure.... the desktop OS as we know it is dead.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

so what you guys who want the start menu back are saying is "we should stay the same forever and never attempt to evolve to a new level"? because that's all I keep hearing

here's a way to think about it: technology is just now leaving infancy, it is entering it's preteen/teen life cycle where it tries to discover itself and what it's capable of and how it wants to be, it must experiment in order to find a good state of mind where it finally reaches maturity

[DarkyDan]

I think we need a reprisal of the Windows 95 howto video with Jennifer Aniston and Matthew Perry!

[Kyang]

Then why should we have to swipe upwards just to access the login screen? Why the emphasis on swiping? Why is the start menu gone?

I understand it's beta software and all, but given that Windows 8 is launching in less than a year, I believe Microsoft is just fixing bugs and adding a few more features before it ships.

Ugh. I never thought the day would come when I would ever criticize Microsoft so harshly. And it's over UI issues.

Then why did they get rid of the start menu on the desktop? I do not find Metro a suitable alternative to the start menu, since it requires so much right to left scrolling just to find stuff. And no, keyboard shortcuts to bring up the search bar to find my application is not a suitable alternative.

Microsoft should have segregated both systems of input into two distinct OSs that share a common kernel. One for the tablet, the other for desktops/laptops That should be it. Or, they could make Metro more mouse and keyboard friendly.

I'm not digging it at all.

I think it's because they expect all the common desktop apps to be pinned to the taskbar. As for swiping up on the lock screen, I think they also expect the user to just put their hands on the keyboard, and start typing. That does get rid of the lock without a swipe.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Precisely what I am saying.

Like it or not, the classic desktop is a dying concept to Microsoft, and the computing industry as a whole. There's a paradigm shift, and until it levels off, we're going to have this bit of awkwardness. But one thing is fo sure.... the desktop OS as we know it is dead.

that's not fully true either, the classic desktop will still be around for a good while in some form or another

[djdanster]

so what you guys who want the start menu back are saying is "we should stay the same forever and never attempt to evolve to a new level"? because that's all I keep hearing

here's a way to think about it: technology is just now leaving infancy, it is entering it's preteen/teen life cycle where it tries to discover itself and what it's capable of and how it wants to be, it must experiment in order to find a good state of mind where it finally reaches maturity

Not at all. I understand fully that we need to move forward in technology, and the Metro UI is a viable way forward, but the functionality STILL isn't there for desktop users. Microsoft claim they've added in all these awesome features in for desktop users, but they do very little. Some tasks are made easier, others are harder to do and navigate around.

I think MS need to take more time and rethink PARTS not all of the Metro UI. If implemented right, it could be a winner.

[carson2255]

Easy to answer, they wanted to maintain one eco-system, it makes it more attractive to enterprises who are looking at more mobile devices. This makes development and support simplier for companies who wish to avoid fragmentation of software. Besides one big plus to windows 8 is Hyper V support and that alone is reason for me to upgrade.

[offroadaaron]

What I'm more concerned about is the business side of things, How the hell am I going to give this POS to users and train them when for 15+ years they have been using a start menu and everything.

I realise change is needed but have you seen how Apple changes things, it's slow and has a purpose! What is this metro crap for the average user it's not easy!

I keep saying this but I can see purpose in what Apple is doing and they know their market space, Microsoft seem so random and fragmented, which I really dislike because I have to work with this!

Microsoft Windows' start menu was the best thing about it, the search functionality was great all they need to improve on is the Window management, virtual desktops and something like expose. I also love how you drag the windows to the top and sides and it does full screen and half screen.

I can't say I've used Windows 8 thatttttt much but I've played and then didn't bother because I hated it. I'll need to look into it more later I think.

[DarkyDan]

Yea fair point, I can agree with that. Microsoft obviously need to extend their market for the other forms of PC's. The UI is all over the place, even inside the Metro interface! The underlying bits are awesome, the other windows 8 additions that haven't really had the spotlight rock! Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, but it lacks functionality BIG time! Side note - 1500th post woot!

I'm hopeful that said functionality will come in the form of matured Windows Metro apps, and 3rd party additions/content. I can see the start screen being a lot more useful when there are more livetiles/widgets, and metro apps. When that functionality comes it will $hite all over Windows 7 so hard it will need goggles to keep it's eyesight.

[Woelfel]

Don't get me wrong, it looks amazing, but it lacks functionality BIG time!

Where exactly does it lose it's functionality?

[djdanster]

I'm hopeful that said functionality will come in the form of matured Windows Metro apps, and 3rd party additions/content. I can see the start screen being a lot more useful when there are more livetiles/widgets, and metro apps. When that functionality comes it will $hite all over Windows 7 so hard it will need goggles to keep it's eyesight.

Yea it needs content more content etc. I know it's not a matured Windows version :p!

Anybody miss being able to look at the time without moving your mouse to the bottom right of the screen? Just glancing? That needs sorting prompto!

[+virtorio MVC]

I think we need a reprisal of the Windows 95 howto video with Jennifer Aniston and Matthew Perry!

Get out and stay out.

[Dot Matrix]

that's not fully true either, the classic desktop will still be around for a good while in some form or another

Naturally, yes. But, Windows as a whole is going post-desktop.

[DarkyDan]

Metro is simply not good enough for a power user

Nothing stock is good enough for a Power User. Power Users tinker.

Your mentioning of the steps required to get to desktop control panel in Windows 8 were horribly wrong.. the Settings charm is context sensitive, you hover to the charms bar and press the cog.. Control Panel opens. Simple.

All you have demonstrated is that you either aren't really a power user, or you haven't researched how to use the UI enough.

You can't expect something to be intuitive when you are using old habits from previous OS versions. Think of the difference between Office 2003 and 2007.. the ribbon I think you'll agree in hindsight is a lot better, but at the time it forced people to abandon old habbits.

[XX55XX]

Naturally, yes. But, Windows as a whole is going post-desktop.

That is far off into the future, and it might not even happen.

Microsoft is changing for the sake of change, not necessarily because the change is good in and of itself (though not having to deal with APIs from multiple platforms would be a boon for developers). But, other than that I don't see anything necessarily good about desktop Metro. It needs a lot of work.

I'm afraid that when Win32 becomes deprecated, that Windows would evolve into a closed platform where the only way to get applications would be through the Windows Store and nowhere else. And where is the fun in that?

[DarkyDan]

time without moving your mouse to the bottom right of the screen? Just glancing? That needs sorting prompto!

First thing I did in the consumer preview was go to the store and look for a clock app so I could have a live tile with the time.... that is quite irritating not having that, I agree.

[fix-this!]

all i can say is...metro, KILL IT WITH FIRE!