IRC Rules

[swuzzlebum]

Once again, I've been asked as a (somewhat) neutral party to get a discussion going about IRC - namely, the possibility of changing the policy regarding permanent bans from the server. I want to make it clear right now that I am not discussing specific users that have been banned, and I ask everyone posting in this thread to follow my lead and stick to talking about the rules themselves. Going into meltdown and questioning about specific people will just get the thread locked.

I think what people have in mind is the possibility of an amnesty after being banned for a certain period of time, and then being allowed back on the IRC server for a probationary period with 100% warn level or something like that. Note also that this thread is *only* about IRC, not the forums.

For posterity, the current IRC rules at the time of this post are below. Anyway, I hope this will be the start of a constructive discussion!

Neowin Internet Relay Chat Rules

(Last updated 6 January, 2011)

We welcome you to participate on the Neowin IRC server, however as with all social circles there are a few rules you must abide by in order to maintain your active membership.

We are trying to provide the highest quality community experience for all of our members and following these guidelines is the best way to maintain a quality environment for all age groups. These rules are very basic, and somewhat more permissive than those on the forums. We hope that you read them fully. If we find that you break any of these rules, your account may be restricted from accessing our IRC server.

Thanks for your cooperation.

• No Graphic Material of either a macabre or pornographic nature.
  Any posts or links to such content will not be tolerated. We are a community for all ages and expect links/discussions to be family/work friendly.
  
• No Illegal Software/Copyrighted Discussion.
  Discussions involving warez, cracks, security circumvention, using torrents for downloading copyrighted or illegal material is strictly prohibited. This includes music files or other unauthorized software. Asking for help in doing so will cause warns or suspensions of accounts.
  
• No Racism, Threatening, No Victimization or Hateful Messages / Retaliation
  If you are a long standing member, act like one; lead by example and assist other newer users rather than attacking them. We look upon our veteran users to use this opportunity to teach the newer users the appropriate way to conduct themselves in this community.
  
• No Personal Attacks or Retaliation
  Personal attacks such as instigating "flame bait", verbal abuse, mocking or sexist remarks of members are not tolerated at Neowin. Clearly due to the nature of IRC, there is a fine line between joking around, and attacking someone. Moderators will use their discretion when dealing with incidents. As above, if you are a long standing member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather than attacking them.
  
• Do not post links to exploits, malware, or websites that produce undesired effects to our members.
  This includes browser crashes, multiple pop-up screens, DOS attacks, or similar results.
  
• No Spamming.
  Spamming on IRC is characterised as repeating the same (or very similar) message over and over again within the channel. Such actions will result in a 'shun' being put on your account, effectively preventing you from communicating on IRC for a short period.
  
• Respect Moderator Decisions.
  Conversations questioning the actions or decisions of forum moderations are not permitted, and the appropriate action taken (up to and including bans) against those involved. However, as a member you reserve the right to PM any moderator, supervisor or administrator regarding action taken against you at Neowin.
  
• Follow instructions from moderators.
  For various reasons, it may be necessary for moderators to step into a conversation. They may instruct members to drop a particular topic of conversation, and members are expected to comply with such a request instantly. Continuing to discuss a topic that a moderator has instructed members to drop will result in a warning or ban being placed on the account.
  

[Fubar]

I Support this!

[Sam]

I think what people have in mind is the possibility of an amnesty after being banned for a certain period of time, and then being allowed back on the IRC server for a probationary period with 100% warn level or something like that. Note also that this thread is *only* about IRC, not the forums.

Good idea, but there should be a method of seeing your IRC warning level. Every time I asked how many warnings I had, it was a different number (Often given by the same member of staff!).

[DaveLegg Developer]

Members who have received permanent bans have received them for a reason. That said, should they wish to appeal said ban, they can do so in the usual way (by contacting a member of the Supervisors group, I would recommend Laura or Colin-UK as they are both regularly involved in IRC). Just as we will not discuss warnings or bans with 3rd parties, we will not discuss the possibilities of lifting warns/bans with 3rd parties. I can imagine which member(s) this may be in relation to, and I would suggest that if they wish to return, they ask themselves.

[Barney T. Administrators]

We do not ban IRC users lightly (or on our boards, for that matter). In the past, we have let one or two members back in, who swore that they have matured and grown up, only to have them fall back into their old habits again. If a user gets banned, it is surely for a grave violation of one of the rules you listed....... and it probably isn't the first time that they have been told.

A banned individual always has the right to contact a Supervisor or Administrator to have their case reviewed. That is probably the best way to handle issues like this, instead of a "blanket" policy.

Thanks for the post!

^Edit: Dave beat me to the post!

[DaveLegg Developer]

Good idea, but there should be a method of seeing your IRC warning level. Every time I asked how many warnings I had, it was a different number (Often given by the same member of staff!).

Due to the nature of IRC, warns there don't work in quite the same way as the forums, in that 5 warns -> ban, so a warning level in that sense is meaningless. That said, any member of moderation staff can tell you how many warns you have received.

[tiagosilva29]

Members who have received permanent bans have received them for a reason.

Yeap. For annoying a developer, in my case. Then got permabanned by the said developer.

[Sam]

Due to the nature of IRC, warns there don't work in quite the same way as the forums, in that 5 warns -> ban, so a warning level in that sense is meaningless. That said, any member of moderation staff can tell you how many warns you have received.

I don't really want to get into all of this again, but I was never told how many warnings I had, what they were for, or why I was banned (Or rather, what I was banned for).

[swuzzlebum]

Okay, before this thread goes to utter ****, could we possibly discuss updating the language of the rules to make these guidelines more clear? There's nothing about five warnings or how one should go about contacting moderators in there.

[tiagosilva29]

That was already done. Don't you remember the Verboten On Neowin days?

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I would extend this to members who are banned on the forum as well. There are several users who are now banned whose contributions could be useful for the community. Some provoked a ban, sure, but the folks in question should have grown up by now. Consider letting them come back on the highest warning level, and knowing that they will be out at the first offense.

Which scenarios could happen?

1. The ex-member ignores the unbanning.
   
2. The ex-member has learnt from his/her mistakes and grew up.
   
3. The ex-member comes back, gets in trouble and finds him/herself banned again soon.
   

In the end the community can only win by letting members who can add value to forum and IRC return. Real troublemakers aren't going to last long.

[ESC@PE]

Kind of strict ruleset but if its called for, then I guess it's ok.

[tiagosilva29]

I'm all for permabans for pedophiles, like Larney and such. But permabanning the IRC freedom fighters is just too much.

Free brentaal!

[b10h4z4rd]

The IRC rules are fairly clear, Swuzz. Usually it's how many warnings they have had in a period of time and the severity of the actions of the member.

Meph, they have shown that they cannot adhere to the rules, no sense in bending rules for them to break them again.

[DaveLegg Developer]

I would extend this to members who are banned on the forum as well. There are several users who are now banned whose contributions could be useful for the community. Some provoked a ban, sure, but the folks in question should have grown up by now. Consider letting them come back on the highest warning level, and knowing that they will be out at the first offense.

Which scenarios could happen?

1. The ex-member ignores the unbanning.
   
2. The ex-member has learnt from his/her mistakes and grew up.
   
3. The ex-member comes back, gets in trouble and finds him/herself banned again soon.
   

In the end the community can only win by letting members who can add value to forum and IRC return. Real troublemakers aren't going to last long.

Equally with members banned from the forum, they can use the Contact link on the front page to message us, and we will consider letting them return. We have allowed this to happen a number of times in the past. We won't however, just unban old members and hope they return, that's a waste of our time examining all the old bans.

[Sam]

It would probably be worth adding that there needs to be a formal warning procedure for IRC introduced. If a mod gives a "warning" in the main room, its hard to distinguish between banter and an actual serious warning.

[b10h4z4rd]

It would probably be worth adding that there needs to be a formal warning procedure for IRC introduced. If a mod gives a "warning" in the main room, its hard to distinguish between banter and an actual serious warning.

Every warning is given in PM on IRC. The 'warning' on the main channel is the offending party's first chance to knock it off.

[Fubar]

No it isnt theres been a few i got in pm vioa the forum days later but never in a pm on irc itself, just one time you messaged me when you said you was going to ban me for calling c3ntury 13 years old

[b10h4z4rd]

It is indeed Fubar.

[what]

Every warning is given in PM on IRC. The 'warning' on the main channel is the offending party's first chance to knock it off.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but you are just plain wrong there.

[Fubar]

No sorry but it isnt..

[Sam]

This is exactly what I meant, there doesn't seem to be a formal procedure set out that members and staff can both follow :)

[DaveLegg Developer]

There is a formal procedure that has been in place for a long time now. We may occasionally tell people to "knock it off" in the channel, this is advice to avoid you crossing the line and getting an actual warn, it's not recorded anywhere.

Any actual warn we issue, you will be informed of via PM on IRC, or the forums if you are offline. We do occasionally need to discuss warns before they are issued, to ensure the warn is fair and justified, this is why you may receive a PM via the forum a day or two later.

[Steven P. Administrators]

Moderating a community is a thankless task :p

[Fubar]

Nah sorry Again i cant take that seriously, i got NO warning what so ever when i was banned for calling c3ntury 13 to which he was at the time.. just a PM saying ive been banned for 24 hours, no discussion nothing...