IRC Rules

[Fubar]

Moderating a community is a thankless task :p

Hardly Moderating when staff flat out refuse to discuss things like they have don so in this thread so far, all rallying around each other as to not look like there is any problem, there is a problem and that problem is clarity, there is None.

[DaveLegg Developer]

Nah sorry Again i cant take that seriously, i got NO warning what so ever when i was banned for calling c3ntury 13 to which he was at the time.. just a PM saying ive been banned for 24 hours, no discussion nothing...

If you would like us to investigate a specific case, please PM a Supervisor or Admin, we will not, as you know, discuss individual cases in public. We realise moderators are human, and occasionally make mistakes.

I've been talking with Swuzz on IRC about clarifying the procedures, and they will be posted on the IRC rules page once they've been written up. I'll also post them here, in the staff forums, and on the IRC warning panel so that all staff moderating IRC are aware of the policies, and we can do our best to avoid mistakes in the future.

[Fubar]

Thats all you had to say from he start tbh :p and no i wont be taking it further as it is way in the past, it just when staff say this is how it is blah blah blah then i'll stand up and say "Piffle" when it's clearly not if you get my drift

[DaveLegg Developer]

The additions to the rules page are as follows:

Repeated violation of the IRC rules, particularly in cases where a warning has already been issued for the same infraction, may lead to a ban. Additionally, extreme violation of the rules may lead to an instant ban. Ban durations are either a week, month, or pemanent, depending on the severity of the infraction(s).

Moderators may issue advice in the channel, along the lines of "knock it off", this is simply advice to avoid members crossing the line to where we need to issue a warning. These advisory messages will not be recorded against any members' profiles.

Should we feel the need to issue a warning, the member(s) in question will be contacted via PM on either IRC, or the forum. Occasionally we need to discuss warnings before they are issued, to be certain they are justified, and the punishment fair to all those who may have been involved, so it is possible that warnings may be handed out a day or two after an incident has occurred. We may temporarily suspend IRC access for the members involved while the incident is discussed.

As always, any moderation action can be appealed by PMing the moderator involved, or a supervisor via the forums.

The rest of the text, and the rules themselves, remain the same.

I should point out, that we have not had to issue any warnings for over 6 months, which is great compared to how things used to be. IRC is pretty much zero-effort for us to run these days

[Vice]

You guys should setup your own IRC Network and have a link in your signatures and PM the regulars in Neowins IRC to use it. Then you won't need to deal with Neowins rules.

[articuno1au]

Moderating a community is a thankless task :p

That it is. The issue with Neowin in general regarding these topics is that I have attempted to follow the procedure to have an issue looked into, and it went literally nowhere.

You have an official policy (which is good) that doesn't seem to be audited in any way and doesn't appear to work.

I'd like to go into more detail about these issues, but fear falling afoul of the "do not discuss moderator actions/bans on forums" etc policy :\

Either way Neobond: I believe the system is ineffectual at this time.

EDIT::

Not trying to stir up any issues or problems, I just felt you might like an "outsiders" point of view :\

[swuzzlebum]

I think having the process spelled out on the rules page is going to be helpful. Anyone have more thoughts?

[DrCheese]

but fear falling afoul of the "do not discuss moderator actions/bans on forums" etc policy :\

This always drove me nuts. It's frustrating when people you've known for years on this forum are suddenly removed. If you ask why, you're closed down and told that "We don't discuss it with other members" If you protest, you'll probably get a warn yourself.

If you had an IRL friend disappear without a trace and be told to "deal with it" by the police, you'd be pretty damn angry. This is no different.

[Sam]

If you ask why, you're closed down and told that "We don't discuss it with other members

Or the person involved, it would seem :)

[Steven P. Administrators]

It's a shame all those people that were on their last and final warnings haven't come in here and said how I've messaged them and appealed to them to change their behavior or face the consequences (as many other staff have done with others too) :p Like I said it's a thankless task, and we do reserve bans as a last resort, and we're even more protective if staff members are the target of victimization (as we are with normal members too when they report it).

[articuno1au]

This always drove me nuts. It's frustrating when people you've known for years on this forum are suddenly removed. If you ask why, you're closed down and told that "We don't discuss it with other members" If you protest, you'll probably get a warn yourself.

If you had an IRL friend disappear without a trace and be told to "deal with it" by the police, you'd be pretty damn angry. This is no different.

I know why the policy exists. I understand it.

I REALLY REALLY dislike it.

I think not allowing public discussion of issues is important. Staff should be able to close those threads, but it ought not be applied as a blanket rule IMO.

Forgive me Neobond, for I have sinned.. >.>

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

First off holy crap Swuzz actually posted on the forums.

Secondly, I do not think that we should allow for the auto unbanning of folks (only if they plead their case) However, I think that the rules could use a bit more clarity (and specificity) so as when you are banning someone it is more clear as to why they were banned other than something along the lines of. "flaming" and whatnot.

[articuno1au]

It's a shame all those people that were on their last and final warnings haven't come in here and said how I've messaged them and appealed to them to change their behavior or face the consequences (as many other staff have done with others too) :p Like I said it's a thankless task, and we do reserve bans as a last resort, and we're even more protective if staff members are the target of victimization 9as we are with normal members too when they report it).

I agree with that policy also.

Hard to keep staff. Impossible to keep them if they get attacked by members..

[DaveLegg Developer]

Or the person involved, it would seem :)

I will happily discuss it with you if you PM me Sam.

This always drove me nuts. It's frustrating when people you've known for years on this forum are suddenly removed. If you ask why, you're closed down and told that "We don't discuss it with other members" If you protest, you'll probably get a warn yourself.

If you had an IRL friend disappear without a trace and be told to "deal with it" by the police, you'd be pretty damn angry. This is no different.

While I can understand the frustration, I'm sure there would be a greater outcry from members if we were to publish all warning records, this is simply the lesser of two evils

[DaveLegg Developer]

First off holy crap Swuzz actually posted on the forums.

Secondly, I do not think that we should allow for the auto unbanning of folks (only if they plead their case) However, I think that the rules could use a bit more clarity (and specificity) so as when you are banning someone it is more clear as to why they were banned other than something along the lines of. "flaming" and whatnot.

We try to be specific in the PMs we send when warning/banning. If you find a message you get isn't clear enough, simply reply and ask for clarification.

[Sam]

It's a shame all those people that were on their last and final warnings haven't come in here and said how I've messaged them and appealed to them to change their behavior or face the consequences (as many other staff have done with others too)

Preface: I know this will be deleted.

Sorry, but when you PM'd me asking "I'm reaching out to you to find out what the problem is", and I replied with sensible and constructive criticism, the only reply was what could be considered as "trolling" and I still ended up with a ban.

[Steven P. Administrators]

Preface: I know this will be deleted.

Sorry, but when you PM'd me asking "I'm reaching out to you to find out what the problem is", and I replied with sensible and constructive criticism, the only reply was what could be considered as "trolling" and I still ended up with a ban.

I see you didn't quote the second part of my post ;)

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

We try to be specific in the PMs we send when warning/banning. If you find a message you get isn't clear enough, simply reply and ask for clarification.

I have never received one so i was unsure. I meant my comment to be more broad as a relative suggestion from the outside as i have not experienced the issue.

[Sam]

I see you didn't quote the second part of my post ;)

Indeed I did not (And that's quite a different issue), but the concerns I raised in that PM over a year ago have been brought up by others in this thread (I can send it again if you like...) :)

[Steven P. Administrators]

Indeed I did not (And that's quite a different issue), but the concerns I raised in that PM over a year ago have been brought up by others in this thread (I can send it again if you like...) :)

I am on IRC but rarely in #neowin so I'm not the most qualified person to comment on it. The discussion in the staff forums was quite clear though. DaveLegg might be able to point you to the right person to bring it up again.

[DaveLegg Developer]

DaveLegg might be able to point you to the right person to bring it up again.

Sure, fire it to me, and I'll see what we can do :)

[tiagosilva29]

You guys should setup your own IRC Network and have a link in your signatures and PM the regulars in Neowins IRC to use it. Then you won't need to deal with Neowins rules.

This was already done. And if I recall correctly, a Neowin developer dropped by and started to write ****.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

The rule changes look good :) as a long time irc user, I approve :)