win8 I use Windows 8 like a power user! Do you?

[mrp04]

P.S. When I open my start menu I usually have a destination in mind so I don't need to see 50 different things there. I don't usually open it just to see what's there and marvel at all the cool colors.

So, if you're going to type then type and hit enter. Windows 8 doesn't make this any slower.

If you're going to mouse to something and click, Windows 8 makes it faster. Because more things are shown at once, you can more easily and quickly mouse to them and click them, getting you to this destination you had in mind.

And if it's something in the control panel you're trying to get to, it's likely in the Win+X menu. Everything else in the right half of the menu is accessible in the folder tree in the left half of the Windows Explorer window which you should have pinned to the taskbar and is accessible by keyboard by pressing Win+E.

If you actually learn to use W8, it's more efficient at desktop tasks than 7. I've moved all my computers to 8 and I'm very happy with it. I'm still noticing things in 8 that are better than 7. Remote Desktop has been VASTLY improved. Now anything with motion or video works much better over RDP.

[Ice_Blue]

So I am only allowed to post in Windows 8 threads if I like it?

It seems to me the point of this thread was to show us "haters" how we're using windows 8 wrong so I thought discussion would follow? If he only wanted to show off his expertise he shouldn't have used the word "haters" in his op. And then people proceed to post their opinion like it's fact saying that because you can see more items on the metro start menu or other nonsense then it has to better than the windows 7 start menu when that's purely an opinion.

No, I don't think I missed the point.

The points you and (others) made have been belaboured ad nauseam. I think everyone gets it by now.

But, you see, the start menu is never coming back. As in not ever.

I guess all I can tell you at this point is to stick to Win 7.

[trag3dy]

The points you and (others) made have been belaboured ad nauseam. I think everyone gets it by now.

But, you see, the start menu is never coming back. As in not ever.

I guess all I can tell you at this point is to stick to Win 7.

Okay. :)

No one has answer my question though. Why is having the option such a problem? If everyone said they wanted the option (even if you had no interest in using it) to have it or not then Microsoft would be compelled to give that option. No one has answered this yet.

Having options is never bad. Not having options is restrictive and lame.

So, if you're going to type then type and hit enter. Windows 8 doesn't make this any slower.

If you're going to mouse to something and click, Windows 8 makes it faster. Because more things are shown at once, you can more easily and quickly mouse to them and click them, getting you to this destination you had in mind.

And if it's something in the control panel you're trying to get to, it's likely in the Win+X menu. Everything else in the right half of the menu is accessible in the folder tree in the left half of the Windows Explorer window which you should have pinned to the taskbar and is accessible by keyboard by pressing Win+E.

I disagree with everything you said. If I search for something via the start menu it gives a short concise list and most important is that it's not in full screen, which is the biggest reason I dislike the start menu. As for everything else - I have my most used programs pinned to the super bar or as a short cut on my desk top and none of that requires an obnoxious (in my opinion) full screen menu and no matter how you argue it will never be faster.

Also for what it's worth I use the window key most of the time to open the start menu so I'm not opposed to using the keyboard to open menus. I just think the full screen start menu with 500 different things on it is obnoxious and don't like it.

[cleverclogs]

LOL @ Bejeweled music ;)

[trek]

I know my corporation will not be rolling out Win 8 client. We will see how many others with very lucrative EA's fail to adopt it too. That will play a key factor in the options for Windows 9 imo.

[mrp04]

Okay. :)

No one has answer my question though. Why is having the option such a problem? If everyone said they wanted the option (even if you had no interest in using it) to have it or not then Microsoft would be compelled to give that option. No one has answered this yet.

Having options is never bad. Not having options is restrictive and lame.

I have answered your question. It's not bad to have the option. But the option is not there. Like Ice_Blue said, it's gone. It's not going to come back. Whining about it online will not help. Microsoft is not going to put it back in, no matter how many people whine about it online, especially in forums that they do not monitor. If you actually spend some time with it, you too will see that it's better than the start menu. This is why Microsoft removed it.

I know my corporation will not be rolling out Win 8 client. We will see how many others with very lucrative EA's fail to adopt it too. That will play a key factor in the options for Windows 9 imo.

All we can do is wait and see. A lot of corporations adopted 7 though, so start screen or not they wouldn't adopt Windows 8. Microsoft is sure to survey them to see why they skipped 8.

[Nazmus Shakib Khandaker]

Note, I didn't say those who dislike the start screen or Windows 8 are "haters". By "haters" I meant those who judged Windows 8 without learning about it or giving it a fare chance. Here's the exact quote: "that many haters have never even learned to use Windows 8 efficiently before giving up." If you have actually used Windows 8 and know how it works and you sill don't like it, then it's fine. It is your opinion. You are not a hater.

[Ice_Blue]

Okay. :)

No one has answer my question though. Why is having the option such a problem? If everyone said they wanted the option (even if you had no interest in using it) to have it or not then Microsoft would be compelled to give that option. No one has answered this yet.

Having options is never bad. Not having options is restrictive and lame.

I think it's because Microsoft felt that if they did that, people would not use the start screen. They are going all out with Metro, and obviously want it to become the new OS standard.

Although I agree that even an obscure hack allowing the start menu would have placated a lot of people.

[mrp04]

I think it's because Microsoft felt that if they did that, people would not use the start screen. They are going all out with Metro, and obviously want it to become the new OS standard.

Although I agree that even an obscure hack allowing the start menu would have placated a lot of people.

There are start menu replacements that look just like the old start menu. xpclient is always talking about it.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Okay. :)

No one has answer my question though. Why is having the option such a problem? If everyone said they wanted the option (even if you had no interest in using it) to have it or not then Microsoft would be compelled to give that option. No one has answered this yet.

Having options is never bad. Not having options is restrictive and lame.

but you do have options, 3rd party they may be. honestly you are just using it as an excuse to complain

if you want the start menu back so bad just install one of those 3rd party options and be done with it (and don't say that's too much work or you don't want to bother or you should have to use 3rd party because that's just proving you're making excuses)

[Nazmus Shakib Khandaker]

The reason Microsoft got rid of the start menu is for consistency. It would be weird to have two "start" menus. Try explaining to people that there are two central locations to launch programs, defeating the purpose of "Central". No, you can't say "Just get rid of the metro start screen" because Metro is windows 8.

If YOU want the start menu so badly, just use 3rd party tools, like Brando212 noted. You don't need to have MS give you everything.

[trag3dy]

I think it's because Microsoft felt that if they did that, people would not use the start screen. They are going all out with Metro, and obviously want it to become the new OS standard.

Although I agree that even an obscure hack allowing the start menu would have placated a lot of people.

Well that's stupid then. A lot of the negativity that I have seen on the internet about Win 8 revolves around the metro start screen. If more people had said they wanted the option to have it like the old one Microsoft would have likely listened. Instead all you see is praise, which is fine. But still.. options never hurt anyone.

Like I said earlier, I think they brought about the changes they wanted correctly with Win 7 super bar. The option to have it one way or the other and a few in between. It just seems really odd to me to not have it.

but you do have options, 3rd party they may be. honestly you are just using it as an excuse to complain

if you want the start menu back so bad just install one of those 3rd party options and be done with it (and don't say that's too much work or you don't want to bother or you should have to use 3rd party because that's just proving you're making excuses)

Or I could save my money and in a way tell Microsoft I don't agree with their design decisions. That's an option too. But a sad one because I like all the other changes they have made in Win8. I think my complaint is a valid one so all I can say to you is that if you don't like it, much like with me and the metro start screen, don't buy it, or in this case don't read it.

The reason Microsoft got rid of the start menu is for consistency. It would be weird to have two "start" menus. Try explaining to people that there are two central locations to launch programs, defeating the purpose of "Central". No, you can't say "Just get rid of the metro start screen" because Metro is windows 8.

If YOU want the start menu so badly, just use 3rd party tools, like Brando212 noted. You don't need to have MS give you everything.

They wouldn't need to do that at all though. Have the option hidden away in a right click options menu. Have the metro start menu be on by default and let people who know about it turn it off. Simple. Having the metro start menu on would hide the regular start button we're used to. At least that's how I'd do it.

I don't want to use a third party program that may or may not be updated regularly to obtain the same functionality I have now without having to use a third party program. That just doesn't make sense to me.

[Ice_Blue]

There are start menu replacements that look just like the old start menu. xpclient is always talking about it.

Oh, yes. I've seen those. Never had much use for the Start Menu myself. Clicked on it maybe once a week.

Honestly, when I use Windows 7 on my other system now, it just feels clunky.

[Nazmus Shakib Khandaker]

@trag3dy read the reasoning I provided above.

@cleverclogs Yup! I bought the high quality soundtracks from Skaven 252, the creator of the music. You can get them from here: http://skaven252.bandcamp.com/album/bejeweled-2 They are under creative commons, meaning that you can use them in your own work. :)

[Matthew_Thepc]

the OPs video is great, and it shows off some of the nice features of Windows 8 too (thanks for the tips about Win-W/Win-F and typing commands into the start menu!).

tbh, the only times in Windows 7 that I ever used the start menu was if (a) I wanted to start an app that wasn't pinned to my taskbar, in which case I typed in the name and pressed enter or (b) was trying to find an app that I forgot the name of (or wouldn't show up in a normal search), which I always found annoying because of the miniscule icons in the start menu, so I welcomed the larger icons with open arms when I saw them :D IMO it shows about the same amount of information, just it's a lot easier to click on and see it.

though I must say, I liked the DP a lot, but when the CP came out I realized how horrible the DP was actually for mouse/keyboard devices, so it's more than possible that when I see Windows 9 (or even the RTM) I'll end up wondering how I ever managed to use the RP :p

[Matthew_Thepc]

If I search for something via the start menu it gives a short concise list and most important is that it's not in full screen, which is the biggest reason I dislike the start menu.

(assuming you're saying it distracts you)

I disagree; when something pops up on my screen (however small) my attention immediately turns to it, even if it's just for a second or two. If I'm writing something in Word, and I want to look something up, what I'd do in Windows 7 is press the Win key -> a small window pops up and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer -> launch Internet Explorer and divert my attention to it. In Windows 8 that flow would look something ilke: press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer (which is easier thanks to the large tile) -> launch IE and divert my attention to it. (or, alternatively) press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> type whatever I want to look up -> pick Internet Explorer in the list of search apps -> divert my attention to it.

ofc, if your usage pattern differs from mine (like, say, you don't naturally try and confirm what you're launching is what you want to launch, or if you don't have your attention diverted by smaller windows) then ignore the above (:

[Stoffel]

(assuming you're saying it distracts you)

I disagree; when something pops up on my screen (however small) my attention immediately turns to it, even if it's just for a second or two. If I'm writing something in Word, and I want to look something up, what I'd do in Windows 7 is press the Win key -> a small window pops up and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer -> launch Internet Explorer and divert my attention to it. In Windows 8 that flow would look something ilke: press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer (which is easier thanks to the large tile) -> launch IE and divert my attention to it. (or, alternatively) press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> type whatever I want to look up -> pick Internet Explorer in the list of search apps -> divert my attention to it.

ofc, if your usage pattern differs from mine (like, say, you don't naturally try and confirm what you're launching is what you want to launch, or if you don't have your attention diverted by smaller windows) then ignore the above (:

You realize there are power users here on Neowin who manage to code in VS while looking stuff up on the internet, watch a movie, talk to a friend on Skype and do a crossword puzzle all at the same time. So a full screen start menu is an issue. For us normal people who focus on one thing at a time Win 8 will be great :)

[ViperAFK]

A few things:

You can do the win key search and launch just as easily in win7...

The gestures showcased in the video on the top left to switch and close metro apps are a HUGE PAIN IN THE ASS on a laptop touchpad.

[Mr. Gibs]

No one has answer my question though. Why is having the option such a problem? If everyone said they wanted the option (even if you had no interest in using it) to have it or not then Microsoft would be compelled to give that option. No one has answered this yet.

Having options is never bad. Not having options is restrictive and lame.

Probably so they can get rid of a little bit of legacy code.

It's pretty much a catch-22 tbh. When Microsoft makes something new, people complain. When they give something new but with some legacy bits left over, people complain.

[Matthew_Thepc]

The gestures showcased in the video on the top left to switch and close metro apps are a HUGE PAIN IN THE ASS on a laptop touchpad.

agreed completely (which is why I'm so glad I have a wireless mouse :D), but you might wanna try Win+Tab and/or Alt+Tab to switch Metro and Desktop apps, & Alt+F4 to close Metro and Desktop apps.

[mattmatik]

You realize there are power users here on Neowin who manage to code in VS while looking stuff up on the internet, watch a movie, talk to a friend on Skype and do a crossword puzzle all at the same time. So a full screen start menu is an issue. For us normal people who focus on one thing at a time Win 8 will be great :)

That's not a power user. That's ADD.

[mrp04]

That's not a power user. That's ADD.

And impossible. A start menu using your full screen for 2 seconds isn't going to "break your workflow" it's just whining about change, even if it's for the better.

[Kelxin]

But Windows 8's "spectacular" multi-monitor support will, VM support, craptastic "charms" and new filesystem definitely will.

If you're tired of people "whining" about how terrible it is, how about STFU about it period? You do your thing, we'll be over here watching the OS fail.

[FloatingFatMan]

I'm kinda getting used to it, but the full screen nature of metro apps is bloody annoying; so much so that I just don't use them. I run a dual 24" monitor setup. I don't need my mail client to use the entire screen area of one of them, thanks; I don't need everything in 72 point font in a layout I can't change (really, vertical layout? Urgh...). I also don't need a massive wall of ultra-bright white in my face. I have no desire to be blinded by my monitor, thanks. Maybe if I could at least change it to black, but nope.. MS say hands off your computer, it's ours now!

It's also annoying how metro is still so half assed. The device list, for example. Why can't I bring up the device properties in that list, and change settings, hmm? No... Instead I have to go back to the old style control panel and do it from there. Annoying.

Also, the good old startup folder. It's now just a huge pain in the backside to drop things in there. I have a few apps that I start every time I boot my machine, why did MS have to make me jump through hoops to put them back?

Metro is just fine for a touch interface (if missing a shedload of stuff still), but it's just nowhere near as useable in a desktop environment.

And really? I have to now remember a crapton of keyboard shortcuts to do stuff I could once do much more easily? Bleh.

[Wyn6]

(assuming you're saying it distracts you)

I disagree; when something pops up on my screen (however small) my attention immediately turns to it, even if it's just for a second or two. If I'm writing something in Word, and I want to look something up, what I'd do in Windows 7 is press the Win key -> a small window pops up and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer -> launch Internet Explorer and divert my attention to it. In Windows 8 that flow would look something ilke: press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> I type in "Internet Explorer" or something similar -> ensure that what I'm pressing enter for _is_ Internet Explorer (which is easier thanks to the large tile) -> launch IE and divert my attention to it. (or, alternatively) press the Win key -> the screen changes, and I immediately divert my attention to it -> type whatever I want to look up -> pick Internet Explorer in the list of search apps -> divert my attention to it.

ofc, if your usage pattern differs from mine (like, say, you don't naturally try and confirm what you're launching is what you want to launch, or if you don't have your attention diverted by smaller windows) then ignore the above (:

An even quicker way to do the above would be from ANYWHERE in the OS you are, desktop, start screen, app/program, go to Charms (win+C, swiping from the right, mousing to the upper/lower right corner) and select Search.

OR... just hit Win + Q to bring up Search.

Type in what you wish to search then select ANY app to use to search including Internet Explorer which will use Bing or your default search engine to search the internet.

I didn't mention Win+I/F/W as those lead you to specific types of searches, though you can choose another type easily.

Once you get used to this method you'll find you can search for anything on the computer or on the internet from wherever you happen to be in the OS. And, I do mean ANYTHING from ANYWHERE.

P.S. I'd recommend for some of you, "I don't need apps taking up the full screen," folks to try snapped view. I can work on any number of programs with any number of open windows while keeping news, Tweetro, certain games, or whatever snapped to the left or right as I prefer. You could conceivably have 10 viewable windows open at once including snap.

Why that would be necessary short of being an android, I don't know. But, you can do it.