Man shot and killed caring airsoft rifle

[DocM]

Also I looked up the laws on airsoft guns in that city. You are allowed to have them on your own property BUT in that city its illegal to have them on you once you step foot off your property.

Really? As noted, around here you could walk around with an AK on each shoulder and pistols to boot.

[SupportGeek]

Really? As noted, around here you could walk around with an AK on each shoulder and pistols to boot.

Not too surprising, a lot of cities think they have every right to trample civil rights, look at Chicago, and Washington

[majortom1981]

Really? As noted, around here you could walk around with an AK on each shoulder and pistols to boot.

http://www.broomfield.org/police/i/nw-springsummer2011.pdf

link to a police newsletter with an airsoft section.

9-72-020 - Possession and use of

weapons

In short, it is illegal for any person to

possess, other than in a person's

dwelling, a gas or mechanically

operated gun, a bow and arrow,

crossbow, a nunchaku or throwing

star.

"We are often asked, "what if my

son/daughter shoots their air soft

guns in the backyard with friends?"

The police officers do not seek out

these types of situations, but are

often called to respond to such calls,

from surrounding neighbors, when

pellets are striking their homes or

landing on their property. Therefore, we encourage you to locate an

establishment that is designed for

the specific use of air soft gun activities where you and your children

can enjoy their use in a safe and legal

environment.

The intention of this is not to ruin

anyone's fun, but to better educate

each of you. If you have any questions always feel free to contact the

Broomfield Police Department at

303-438-6400 to speak with a police "

[DocM]

Pfffttt...

Around here it almost rains airsoft pellets on a clear summer day - free ammo for the kids to gather.

[Detection]

So let me get this straight. Some people in here are implying Police should go into the scene of a mentally unstable person armed with an "alleged" airsoft gun which is described as a rifle which by definition has a longer range, trusting just a stranger's voice on the phone saying it's not a real gun and going against all training that direct to treat any gun as if it is loaded, real and an imminent threat to them and other citizens ? Furthermore, this person does not obey commands to drop the weapon when instructed to and even go as far as pointing the gun at officers and even so you people want officers to just stand there and ask the guy, " Hey mister is that a real gun or just a toy ? Are you planing to shoot us or just being a jerk ?". What if this was just a set up to ambush Police and the airsoft story just a ruse to have them lower their guard ? What if the gun was real and this moron went on shooting anyone on sight ? What if this guy goes in the middle of traffic pointing his "toy" at drivers and causes a collision and innocent people die ? I am sure that you will be the first to attack Police for doing nothing to stop the guy and neutralize him before he could cause damage. It is easy for people to criticize without being at the scene.

This is what I was thinking, there was no way to know it wasn't real, although it would be good if the cops were trained to shoot somewhere like the legs first, better chance of survival and I'm pretty sure it would still put someone on the floor

[DocM]

This is what I was thinking, there was no way to know it wasn't real, although it would be good if the cops were trained to shoot somewhere like the legs first, better chance of survival and I'm pretty sure it would still put someone on the floor

As posted before, bad idea. A perp on the flloor that still has his wits and his weapon is still combat effective. Also, studies of shooting incidents show that a leg hit is both 1) a very low probability shot (abt. 10%), and 2) a miss or through-and-through shot can enter a home, business or strike a bystander, putting others in danger. My very experienced instructors said shoot to kill, period.

[SupportGeek]

As posted before, bad idea. A perp on the flloor that still has his wits and his weapon is still combat effective. Also, studies of shooting incidents show that a leg hit is both 1) a very low probability shot (abt. 10%), and 2) a miss or through-and-through shot can enter a home, business or strike a bystander, putting others in danger. My very experienced instructors said shoot to kill, period.

^^This^^

In a defense situation, its VERY hard to hit anything other than center mass effectively, even training for 2 center mass taps, check, then head tap if the threat is still active over and over is no guarantee, but building it into muscle memory helps the odds.

[ncoday]

i don't know, that red tip on the end of an airsoft gun is usually a pretty big give away to me

That means nothing. I can take the flash hider on my real AR15 and paint it red. Does that mean I should be able to point it at police and they won't shoot?

Along the same lines, many people repaint the red tip or just remove it from Airsoft gun

[Noir Angel]

Different circumstances, same old gun nuts. Bloodlust, vengeance, and death.

[Southern Patriot]

http://www.broomfiel...gsummer2011.pdf

link to a police newsletter with an airsoft section.

9-72-020 - Possession and use of

weapons

In short, it is illegal for any person to

possess, other than in a person's

dwelling, a gas or mechanically

operated gun, a bow and arrow,

crossbow, a nunchaku or throwing

star.

"We are often asked, "what if my

son/daughter shoots their air soft

guns in the backyard with friends?"

The police officers do not seek out

these types of situations, but are

often called to respond to such calls,

from surrounding neighbors, when

pellets are striking their homes or

landing on their property. Therefore, we encourage you to locate an

establishment that is designed for

the specific use of air soft gun activities where you and your children

can enjoy their use in a safe and legal

environment.

The intention of this is not to ruin

anyone's fun, but to better educate

each of you. If you have any questions always feel free to contact the

Broomfield Police Department at

303-438-6400 to speak with a police "

I could see a constitutional lawyer having a field day with that one!

[Noir Angel]

The constitution guarantees you the right to own guns, not have them in public. Each jurisdiction can set their own rules on that one, hence the fact that whether you can or cannot carry concealed varies state to state.

[Davo]

The police were successfully trolled by a guy who wanted to die.

[DocM]

The constitution guarantees you the right to own guns, not have them in public. Each state jurisdiction .....

The entire McDoinald v. Chicago SCOTUS case was over the supremacy of Federal and State law re: firearms over local jurisdictions, which is why my distinction, and the current law is that only one State, Illinois, does not issue permits to carry a handgun. The other 49 States allow the carrying of a handgun with a permit or are unregulated. Michigan is a hybrid: carrying openly (firearm visible) requires no permit, but carrying concealed does.

Of those States that require carry permits some are May Issue (at the discretion of the issuer, often the County Sheriff) while the vast majority are Shall Issue (automatic if you pass the background check & take classes.)

There is also carry permit reciprocity - most states that issue them allow licensees from other states to carry as well. These agreements are negotiated on a State by State basis.

Map as of 2011 below -

[Solid Knight]

A tidbit of info: you can buy airsoft guns online that do not have a red/orange tip.

[Noir Angel]

Doesn't really change my point at all, there's no wording in the constitution that gives people the right to carry their weapons in public.

[DocM]

Doesn't really change my point at all, there's no wording in the constitution that gives people the right to carry their weapons in public.

The States use their home-rule regulatory powers under the 10th Amendment to allow public carry, however it is licensed or unregulated, or not.

The DC v. Heller SCOTUS decision confirmed the right to bear arms under the 2nd Amendment, something that had been presumed but not directly ruled on, and to use them for self-defense within Federal enclaves and the home.

McDonald v. Chicago confirmed that the rights under the 2nd Amendment are incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and apply to the States. This also had the effect of confirming the States as the local regulating authority, not individual municipalities which is what got DC, Chicago and soon NYC in trouble. GOTO State's rights under the 10th again.

Last I checked, the 2nd, 10th and 14th Amendments are part of the Constitution.

[SupportGeek]

Doesn't really change my point at all, there's no wording in the constitution that gives people the right to carry their weapons in public.

Yes there is: "Shall not be infringed"

There is no wording in the Constitution however, that limits the second to applying ONLY in the home.

That whole "Shall not be infringed" part is pretty absolute on the limitations that may be placed on the right to keep and bear.

Just because the states choose to violate the Constitution doesnt mean it wont get challenged and struck down in SCOTUS

[Noir Angel]

There's no wording that implies that the states have to allow people to carry them either. I suppose morticians would like people to carry concealed weapons everywhere though, after all more corpses does wonders for their business.

[DocM]

What drives the states is that their citizens support carry, and that under the 10th Amendment this is theirs to act on.The SCOTUS decisions affirmed the right to use a firearm in self defense in the home & environs, and the states extended that to the streets. The most convenient carry is a handgun so that is how they implemented it - though many states like Michigan allow the carrying of any legally obtained handgun or long gun. I know a guy who carries an Uzi Pistol - the semi-auto Micro-Uzi PDW.

[Growled Member]

What does he need that for? Rough neighborhood?

[DocM]

It's a 9mm handgun by anything other than style and the abily to take a suppressor and a shoulder strap.

Suppressors (silencers) became legal in Michigan last September, making 37 states that now permit them so long as the citizen complies with Federal regs; apply, pass a background check, and pay a $200 tax.

[Noir Angel]

Christ a guy walking around with an Uzi? Yeah, that's sane.

[DocM]

He's former USSOCOM and a retired cop, and truthfully a full sized .40 or .45 is deadlier. Hell, my little SIG P250 subcompact .40 (3rd from left below) is deadlier. Looks != ballistics.

[Noir Angel]

Why is that relevant? The guy's clearly an absolute fruitcake. Still, you can cap quite a lot of asses with a 30 shot chamber, it's little wonder the gun nuts love him.

[DocM]

He's used to how it feels, and most any semi-auto pistol can take an extended magazine, even my little SIG. There's this place called the internet where you can legally buy one for most any weapon. Several places make 20-50 round drum magazines for my IZHMASH Saiga-12 tactical shotgun (based on the AK mechanism.)

Before you make a snide remark, the Saiga is for swamp deer hunting - you can drop an AK mechanism in water or mud and it'll still fire. Handy if you're in a swamp and run into a bear or 400+ lb hog and they get territoriual. The lower half of Michigan's lower peninsula is shotgun deer hunting only - no rifles except for black powder.