Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

[PGHammer]

Microsoft is gambling big with this release of Windows 8. I wish them good luck.

Microsoft is hedging their bets because both trends (and their own user base) leave them no real option at all.

Why do those users that see the increasing number of Android tablets/slates/multifunction devices making inroads into the netbooks and notebook space want Microsoft to ignore that? Unlike iOS, Android devices aren't just tablets and slates; the ASUS Eee Transformer is a case in point. While the hardware is, in fact, perfectly capable of running WindowsRT, WindowsRT isn't available - hence it running Android (3.x or 4.x). The Transformer *series* is a killer design - it has been cloned to an extent - even by hardware running Windows. However, x86 hardware *is* pricier than ARM or Tegra-based hardware; x86 hardware also is not as energy-efficient as the ARM and Tegra counterparts. Unless WindowsRT launches, Android to a large part will own the sub-netbook market.

The problem for WindowsRT (and WinRT as an API) is that it's late, and going up against an *established* Android and iOS (Android being the immediate threat to Windows). The easiest way to build up a potential user base rapidly is to piggyback on a user base you already have. That is, in fact, the major reason the WinRT API has been added to Windows 8.

However, to dismiss the WinRT API as a touch-only API is to ignore changes in WinRT/WindowsRT's target - Android 3.x and later. Unlike Froyo - which was, in fact, a heavily touch-biased OS, 3.0 and successors are far wider open to interaction that has nada to do with touch. Again, using the Transformer series as an example, standard fare with the TF300T and above is Polaris Office - a productivity suite ala LibreOffice and Microsoft Office, but for Android. While it can leverage Android's built-in virtual keyboard, most users of Polaris Office use it the way way folks use LibreOffice Writer, or even Word - with a physical keyboard. Such a keyboard is optional with most Android tablets or slates; some even include one. If anything, that makes Android a bigger threat - not a smaller one. (It also rather neatly trainwrecks any argument that Android is strictly a *phone OS*, even though it indeed started out there.)

Android - and especially ICS - has to be faced head-on by Microssoft. What I have to ask those seking to stay with the status quo is, since you are at least as capable of following the trends as I am, why are you insisting Microsoft ignore such an in-your-face threat?

[f0rk_b0mb]

One of these threads again? Can't us Mac, Linux, Windows, and Windows Metro fanboys just get along? :)

[Jygoro]

I agree Windows 8 is the first step to something really important for Microsoft. It's a bold move and it's done in the best moment possible. It's now after the most successful OS ever when Microsoft can try to change things. Just imagine what Windows 8 would have meant if they decided to release it just after Vista. It could have been lethal for the company.

Right now? If you don't like it you simply will keep using Windows7. This is what was learnt with XP -> Vista transition. Windows 8 is not just another Windows version. I think it is much more than that.

[George P Global Moderator]

I agree Windows 8 is the first step to something really important for Microsoft. It's a bold move and it's done in the best moment possible. It's now after the most successful OS ever when Microsoft can try to change things. Just imagine what Windows 8 would have meant if they decided to release it just after Vista. It could have been lethal for the company.

Right now? If you don't like it you simply will keep using Windows7. This is what was learnt with XP -> Vista transition. Windows 8 is not just another Windows version. I think it is much more than that.

I agree with you, I see Windows 8 as the first step to an even bigger change to come with Windows 9 and up.

Off topic though, dude, everytime I see your avatar picture I know i've seen that somewhere but I just can't remember from what.

[KingCracker]

I tried it for the first time today and i'm liking it so far.

[Dot Matrix]

Windows 8 is not just another Windows version. I think it is much more than that.

Agreed. Windows 8 marks a new direction for Windows, and Microsoft as a company.

[Windows Nashville]

They have a plan, and want to stick to it.

Really? It seems more like a Hail Mary pass, an act of desperation on Microsoft's part. On one side they're faced with a rising number of users who are satisfied with Windows 7 (or even XP) and are no longer motivated to upgrade the OS every two or three years. On the other side they face a rising number of users who have eschewed the desktop environment altogether and would prefer a completely different type of OS for their portable devices.

Rather than address both markets with specialized solutions, Microsoft's decided to half-*ss things and throw together this Frankensteinian hybrid called Windows 8 ... which fully satisfies no one, puts off and even angers a large segment of (former) Windows loyalists. That's not a company with a vision -- that's just a mess.

[Dot Matrix]

Rather than address both markets with specialized solutions, Microsoft's decided to half-*ss things and throw together this Frankensteinian hybrid called Windows 8 ... which fully satisfies no one, puts off and even angers a large segment of (former) Windows loyalists. That's not a company with a vision -- that's just a mess.

They are addressing both markets. What one market fails to realize though, is that their machines are evolving past being an awkward clunker to something more interactive and efficient. Windows 8 is just the beginning of an augmented ecosystem. No company can let a small group of "loyalists" (yes, it's a small group) get between them and future opportunities. If Microsoft listened to these "loyalists" we would still be using the damned CLI (Which I hate with a passion greater than a thousand burning suns).

No, wait, we wouldn't. Microsoft would have gone out of business by now had that been the case. Same thing applies here. It's time to let bygones be bygones and let evolution take it's course. Needless to say, Windows 8 is the official start to Windows 3.0. Don't like it? Give it a few years to mature or move to Liunx or Apple, however, I have a feeling it won't be long before Apple starts moving forward with new designs that incorporate touch into their desktop models too. Same with Ubuntu.

I, for one, look forward to interacting with my devices on this new level. The possibilities here are endless.

[PGHammer]

Really? It seems more like a Hail Mary pass, an act of desperation on Microsoft's part. On one side they're faced with a rising number of users who are satisfied with Windows 7 (or even XP) and are no longer motivated to upgrade the OS every two or three years. On the other side they face a rising number of users who have eschewed the desktop environment altogether and would prefer a completely different type of OS for their portable devices.

Rather than address both markets with specialized solutions, Microsoft's decided to half-*ss things and throw together this Frankensteinian hybrid called Windows 8 ... which fully satisfies no one, puts off and even angers a large segment of (former) Windows loyalists. That's not a company with a vision -- that's just a mess.

Didn't you read what I posted above? By and large, when it comes to Windows, specialized solutions have been a colossal failure when it comes to consumers. Name a SINGLE specialized solution that has been successful *in the consumer space*. The most successful specialized Windows - Media Center Edition - also varied the least from the multipurpose/general-purpose core; in fact, other than one feature (domain support, which could be added back in via the Registry), MCE is otherwise a SUPERset - not a subset - of the core Windows XP Professional. Even WindowsRT is hedged by having the same API it uses (WinRT) also part of the core of Windows 8 itself - the hedge is, to put it bluntly, in case WindowsRT itself fails.

Then there is the more important issue of Android itself. With Honeycomb, Android showed signs that it was, at the very least, thinking about coming after the portable PC market, armed with two advantages that existing x86 devices don't have - far longer battery life, and multi-input support (not just mice, not just touch, and not just the keyboard). Honeycomb was a shot across the bow - Ice Cream Sandwich (and Jellybean) are more the US Mark 46 torpedo, and are taking on Windows on portables head-on. Leading the assault is, in fact, designs such as the Transformer series - far better battery life, and at least equivalency in terms of input support (if not superiority when compared to Windows 7) at a cost identical to, or less than, Windows 7-running hardware.

Microsoft can no more ignore the threat that is Android any more than Intel and AMD can ignore the dual threat that is ARM and Tegra.

[Wyn6]

Even on a phone / tablet I think they're overrated. Even on Android I only really used the google search widget and the power control widget that allows you to easily enable and disable wifi and GPS.

The reactions to things on sites like Neowin have usually been a good barometer for how software products have performed, the reactions to Vista and 7 both pretty much echoed what the market eventually said about them. The reaction to Windows 8 on most tech sites is about 85% negative.

Made up stat! Made up stat!

A challenge then, Professor. For every negative review of Windows 8 RP you post, I'll post a positive one. Will see who runs out of material first, eh?

[Noir Angel]

Hah! You gave me a good laugh, thank you :-)

I hope I am right that you do lose face on Windows 8. The condescending arrogance you show towards your users is pretty disgusting to be honest. Not that i'd expect anything less from Microsoft employees these days, your company is becoming more like Apple than people care to admit. Given the rubbish SSE2 excuse you made, however, I'm not inclined to look at you as a source of honesty but as another PR tool.

I don't think that's quite right, do you have a source? Everything I've read says Apple doesn't make money on the store (only app developers do). It's there to attract users to their devices and get them attached to the Apple ecosystem.

http://articles.busi...e-munster-apple

$538 million profit sounds like a pretty healthy chunk to me.

[Windows Nashville]

Made up stat! Made up stat!

A challenge then, Professor. For every negative review of Windows 8 RP you post, I'll post a positive one. Will see who runs out of material first, eh?

I'm sure he just intended it to be taken as an estimate. But I would have to agree that it seems to be "approximately" 85% negative reviews and comments out there. The critics of Windows 8 are certainly more numerous than the fans at nearly every tech site.

But whatever the actual numbers, here's something that's ominous for Microsoft: The negativity surrounding Windows 8 is far worse than how people were reacting to Vista before release. And since Vista is generally considered to be a failure ...

[KingCracker]

I'm sure he just intended it to be taken as an estimate. But I would have to agree that it seems to be "approximately" 85% negative reviews and comments out there. The critics of Windows 8 are certainly more numerous than the fans at nearly every tech site.

But whatever the actual numbers, here's something that's ominous for Microsoft: The negativity surrounding Windows 8 is far worse than how people were reacting to Vista before release. And since Vista is generally considered to be a failure ...

Is it because they are moving away from the traditional desktop, its still there but seems like an after thought.

[Noir Angel]

I'm sure he just intended it to be taken as an estimate. But I would have to agree that it seems to be "approximately" 85% negative reviews and comments out there. The critics of Windows 8 are certainly more numerous than the fans at nearly every tech site.

But whatever the actual numbers, here's something that's ominous for Microsoft: The negativity surrounding Windows 8 is far worse than how people were reacting to Vista before release. And since Vista is generally considered to be a failure ...

There are people on here who figured out what I meant? woah, I think hell just froze over :laugh:

Every tech site I go to the negative comments seem to outweigh the positive. That cannot be a coincidence.

[Wyn6]

There are people on here who figured out what I meant? woah, I think hell just froze over :laugh:

Every tech site I go to the negative comments seem to outweigh the positive. That cannot be a coincidence.

Nah. I know what you meant and realize, of course, the stat was to make your point. What I wasn't clear on was that you meant comments and not actual articles. Even so, I'm seeing different stats. On tech related sites I'm seeing about 50/50 maybe 50/60 against Win 8. On Twitter I'm seeing about 70/30 in favor of Win 8. On news sites I'm also seeing a higher number in favor of 8. I guess it depends on what you read and where.

[Noir Angel]

I place no trust in front page "reviews" written by those kind of sites, a lot of them are on retainers from tech companies to provide positive reviews of products. I listen to the opinions of common users to gague the general reaction to things and it's amongst common users that I see the most dislike for the new start screen.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Given the rubbish SSE2 excuse you made, however, I'm not inclined to look at you as a source of honesty but as another PR tool.

I'm a developer, and I provided technical details to those interested in knowing them (which are well documented in the whitepaper I linked to on MSDN). If you don't like those facts, that's not really something I'm in a position to help with.

http://articles.busi...e-munster-apple

$538 million profit sounds like a pretty healthy chunk to me.

That's revenue. It is expensive to operate a service of that scale (and don't forget the staffing and infrastructure for the on-boarding of apps). And even for revenue that's a drop in the bucket for Apple.

[spaceelf]

One thing I can say with regards to 'negative comments outweighing the positives'

Maybe so, and I can only speak for me but I imagine people that think Windows 8 is great are tired of talking about it. The negative people never stop talking about it, ironically.

I have actually gotten somewhat sick of forums lately with all the repetitive bashing. Yes, it's fine to not like something, but once I've read your point for the seventh time it gets a bit old.

And quoting anti Win8 previews written by Mac and Linux lovers (this is mostly on other forums mind you) is like 'so the Earth is still spinning then?' Heh.

[TheLegendOfMart]

They are addressing both markets. What one market fails to realize though, is that their machines are evolving past being an awkward clunker to something more interactive and efficient. Windows 8 is just the beginning of an augmented ecosystem.

Show me a tablet with 27" Monitor, quad core cpu, 16gb ram, dual gtx680s, 6tb hdd space. Tablets are great and all, but they have their time and place, they arent the future evolution of the personal computer. Microsoft Surface is going to be a niche curiosity at best.

[aviator189]

personally, i love it!

[x-byte]

Show me a tablet with 27" Monitor, quad core cpu, 16gb ram, dual gtx680s, 6tb hdd space. Tablets are great and all, but they have their time and place, they arent the future evolution of the personal computer. Microsoft Surface is going to be a niche curiosity at best.

Just like iPad, right?

[Dot Matrix]

Show me a tablet with 27" Monitor, quad core cpu, 16gb ram, dual gtx680s, 6tb hdd space. Tablets are great and all, but they have their time and place, they arent the future evolution of the personal computer. Microsoft Surface is going to be a niche curiosity at best.

It isn't just about tablets. There's nothing saying desktops can't be augmented with touch.

[PGHammer]

It isn't just about tablets. There's nothing saying desktops can't be augmented with touch.

Posters like TheLegendOfMart know this. The same posters are doubtless aware that Android tablets can be *augmented* with keyboards (of the physical sort); I've mentioned the Eee Transformer Prime in the Microsoft Beta threads a few times - the Prime's dock includes a full QWERTY keyboard. In fact, desktops can be augmented with touch - today. While portables have to have it built in, desktops do not. I would wager that a lot of the folks hating Metro are on portables that lack touch; therefore, because they would HAVE to replace their portable to add it, they choose instead to request the highly improbable, and when the door is (expectedly) slammed in their faces, they react like the fox that can't reach the grapes.

Another portion of the denigrators have notebooks or netbooks that support an odd resolution that doesn't *quite* fit Metro expectations. They have to replace hardware (which means replacing the portable in question) - "I hate Metro (because to use it properly I have to buy a new laptop/notebook/netbook)!"

Some folks just got comfortable with Windows 7 (as in they likely just got used to it at work) and aren't ready to move forward - if at all; I've made no secret of Windows 8 being a major move. Some folks aren't ready, and are looking for excuses to hide the REAL reason - more often than not, it comes down to money (or lack thereof).

[Pettor]

I have gone from feeling a bit sceptical about Windows 8 (mainly because every hater just has to be sooooo loud) but tried it in a WM and love it. I am power user but feel that the Metro-interface is better to organise my stuff and it's actually quick. The only sad thing is I don't have a tablet to try it on. There's a cool synth app in the Marketplace that just begs for touch! :)

[RiverCampher]

You have to remember that techies will always be the more critical of people. I think it's easy for us to become too much 'one way' and not think how easy this interface is to a normal home user.

I agree it's a step forward for the consumer, however as a corporate product I find it more difficult to accept. If you're just using the standard Microsoft packages, you're golden. However, many businesses use a vast amount of different third party and possibly in-house applications, and quite a few will be complicated to use within the tiled interface.

We are certainly not going to pay for all users to have touch screen monitors or tablets and we can't rationalize changing 30+ applications to suit the interface so it's hard for me to picture Windows 8 playing a role for us as the adaption would be too costly to consider. Windows 7 will stay with us for a long time I think.