Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

[xWhiplash]

Windows + R, or open explorer (Win + E, or click the folder on your start bar) and paste it in there. No idea why you'd type it by hand versus cut and paste. Not being snarky, just not clear on the issue.

Um it is kind of hard to copy and paste a path when they format it like Program Files- Adobe - blah blah, or "The adobe folder in Program FIles".

[George P Global Moderator]

This is simply not true--look at the success of the iPad, no Mac users had trouble getting used to that interface. No PC users did either. It's a separate type of device, with a separate set of functions and things it's meant for. You use it for different things and you interact with it in a different way. It is allowed to be different, and it should be.

Besides... if it's so nice, then why would nobody use it if given the option? =/

Because they haven't in the past? MS has released different things into the market, shown their OEM parters what to do only to have them not do jack. You honestly think if this was it's own tablet OS that the OEMs would support it so much? They never did in the past so why do so now? You can bring up the iPad all you want, that got to where it was off of the success of the iPhone, it's the same iPhone UI, it's the same idea but from another direction.

[dangel]

Gadgets on the desktop get covered, so you have to peek or minimise windows to see em.

Live tiles on the start screen can't be seen except when you're on the start screen.

Funny that!

[Calum Veteran]

A point I've been trying to make all along, thank you. Apple don't seem to think all their devices need the same UI to sell on their own merits. And that's precisely that. Let a PC be a PC, and let a tablet be a tablet.

They don't, but they could end up being wrong in the long run (we'll see how successful Windows 8 is, if it even is). I like the idea of all of my devices using the same user interface, as long as it works well.

[x-byte]

You people really need to start understanding that Metro, frankly sucks for some people. It doesnt matter if the start screen is awesome or not. The fact that it is full screen irritates a lot of people.

If I am on a website or looking at an email, that tells me a very long folder path, I can have the start menu open and start typing the path without have the source go away from a full screen start menu.

Win + R or Win + E

The point you're not getting is that unification is NOT NECESSARY. I don't need a desktop PC to function like a tablet.

Then use the desktop.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I think it will be great, eventually. The haters need to look at the big picture. Would you not want to have the same behavior on all your devices? This is the beginning of that.

Why not sell a product that is delightful to use now? I don't particularly trust companies' promises that something will eventually be great if it isn't already.

[x-byte]

Why not sell a product that is delightful to use now? I don't particularly trust companies' promises that something will eventually be great if it isn't already.

There need to be a transition.

[dangel]

Um it is kind of hard to copy and paste a path when they format it like Program Files- Adobe - blah blah, or "The adobe folder in Program FIles".

So why would you type that into the start screen/start menu exactly? Sorry - really don't understand why you'd not use explorer alongside your web browser ? Are you searching for a shortcut in the menu or just trying to open a absolute folder path etc?

[George P Global Moderator]

A point I've been trying to make all along, thank you. Apple don't seem to think all their devices need the same UI to sell on their own merits. And that's precisely that. Let a PC be a PC, and let a tablet be a tablet.

THen why are they bringing over tablet UI elements to the Mac? The only difference is that they're doing it slower and MS did it in one big step. The fact is they know they have a strong iPhone and iPad userbase while their Mac userbase is still stuck low in that 4-5% range it's been at for years. Now they've started to sneak in some parts to make the larger userbase transition over to OSX a bit easier yet this isn't a problem because the changes are minor for now. I though see the same strategy taking shape but from another direction and at a slower pace because Apple doesn't really need to rush things at this point.

[xWhiplash]

There need to be a transition.

And Apple is actually the ones doing the right thing with a slow transition. I would be fed up with Apple too if Launchpad was in my face every day and probably a lot of times throughout the day.

Launchpad is completely optional, the Start Screen is not.

[Charisma Veteran]

They don't, but they could end up being wrong in the long run (we'll see how successful Windows 8 is, if it even is). I like the idea of all of my devices using the same user interface, as long as it works well.

That's the problem though... just my opinion, of course, but I'm reminded of the old "jack of all trades, master of none" saying. I like when something is tailored specifically for the environment it's meant for and is optimised for that experience. To pull out the car analogy: my motorbike operates differently than my car, because while it has a similar function (transportation) and uses the same infrastructure (the roads), it is a different experience and requires a different way of using it. I don't want a steering wheel on my motorbike, and I don't want giant touchscreen-optimised blocks and live tiles (in short, the simplicity that's meant for and is perfect on a smaller screen) on my desktop.

[Noir Angel]

THen why are they bringing over tablet UI elements to the Mac? The only difference is that they're doing it slower and MS did it in one big step. The fact is they know they have a strong iPhone and iPad userbase while their Mac userbase is still stuck low in that 4-5% range it's been at for years. Now they've started to sneak in some parts to make the larger userbase transition over to OSX a bit easier yet this isn't a problem because the changes are minor for now. I though see the same strategy taking shape but from another direction and at a slower pace because Apple doesn't really need to rush things at this point.

Apple are bringing features over from iOS that they think will benefit OSX, different to slapping a tablet UI onto a desktop product and calling it progress. They might enrich one with features from another, but they still let their desktops be a desktop and their tablet be a tablet. With Windows 8 you don't have that choice, you have to use the tablet UI whether you like it or not. And they're also not horribly neutering the UI of OSX to achieve that crossover of features either.

[dangel]

Apple don't give a stuff about desktop - it's a niche market for them. Post PC baby.

[xWhiplash]

So why would you type that into the start screen/start menu exactly? Sorry - really don't understand why you'd not use explorer alongside your web browser ? Are you searching for a shortcut in the menu or just trying to open a absolute folder path etc?

What do you mean? If a website tells me, for arguments sake, where the plugin folder is. They tell me it is in the Adobe Photoshop <VERSION> folder in Program files. That is all they say. Right now I can just do this:

Windows key + C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS5.1\Plug-ins\ + press enter. Incredibly fast since I am a really fast typer. Instead of Windows Key + E for explorer, and clicking the address bar and start typing it.

Windows Key + R would be fine, except with windows 7 it displays the folder as I type list so I know what folder to go to next.

[George P Global Moderator]

Apple are bringing features over from iOS that they think will benefit OSX, different to slapping a tablet UI onto a desktop product and calling it progress. They might enrich one with features from another, but they still let their desktops be a desktop and their tablet be a tablet. With Windows 8 you don't have that choice, you have to use the tablet UI whether you like it or not. And they're also not horribly neutering the UI of OSX to achieve that crossover of features either.

You only have to use it to varying degrees. I personally when I'm on the desktop don't have to use the start screen much at all, just like on Win7 I don't have to use the start menu much at all. People seem to think you'll always be jumping back and forth but that's not the case for everyone. I'm speaking for myself but I'm probably not the only one who's taken advantage of the taskbar changes in Win7 and pinned the apps I use every day to it not having to open and dig through the start menu over and over.

[x-byte]

Windows Key + R would be fine, except with windows 7 it displays the folder as I type list so I know what folder to go to next.

So does the Run command ...

[Noir Angel]

You only have to use it to varying degrees. I personally when I'm on the desktop don't have to use the start screen much at all, just like on Win7 I don't have to use the start menu much at all. People seem to think you'll always be jumping back and forth but that's not the case for everyone. I'm speaking for myself but I'm probably not the only one who's taken advantage of the taskbar changes in Win7 and pinned the apps I use every day to it not having to open and dig through the start menu over and over.

Sure, I use a lot of pinned applications myself, but if you want to use applications you don't have pinned you still have to trawl through it. And you can't stop it from being there when you start up either, it's simply there. I know it can be dismissed but that's not really the point, the current start menu goes away and stays away until I need it.

And look at their products... the aforementioned changes to Visual Studio, what they've done to Office, ETC. They're making the UI of their products consistently sucky to pander to the tablet crowd.

[Calum Veteran]

That's the problem though... just my opinion, of course, but I'm reminded of the old "jack of all trades, master of none" saying. I like when something is tailored specifically for the environment it's meant for and is optimised for that experience. To pull out the car analogy: my motorbike operates differently than my car, because while it has a similar function (transportation) and uses the same infrastructure (the roads), it is a different experience and requires a different way of using it. I don't want a steering wheel on my motorbike, and I don't want giant touchscreen-optimised blocks and live tiles (in short, the simplicity that's meant for and is perfect on a smaller screen) on my desktop.

You do make some great points, considering what you and others would like out of your desktop PCs. But as you imply, I think our disagreement on this issue is down to what we're both after from our desktop PCs.

I haven't ever liked the current Windows way of working (version 7-): Having multiple windows open on screen, all overlapping, being able to resize them etc. This new approach seems, to me, to be how Windows should have always worked. To me, it feels as if it makes sense, and I find the user experience all 'round to be much more enjoyable. When using a desktop PC with a large monitor, I especially enjoy the full-screen splash screens that appear whenever I open a new app, or whenever I use a feature that utilises a contract or extension (e.g. when picking a file), probably due to how beautiful they look with the different colours and white, monochrome icons.

[dangel]

What do you mean? If a website tells me, for arguments sake, where the plugin folder is. They tell me it is in the Adobe Photoshop <VERSION> folder in Program files. That is all they say. Right now I can just do this:

Windows key + C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS5.1\Plug-ins\ + press enter. Incredibly fast since I am a really fast typer. Instead of Windows Key + E for explorer, and clicking the address bar and start typing it.

Windows Key + R would be fine, except with windows 7 it displays the folder as I type list so I know what folder to go to next.

Again, I wasn't being facetious, just trying to understand. In your case Win + R works just as you'd want it in 8, with auto complete etc too. Hit Win + CTRL + E and you're right in search in explorer (with a great instant preview in the main pane). :)

I don't think you've got an issue from the sounds of it..

[PGHammer]

Tablets will never have the same power as desktop computers. Being able to play a game several years old on modern hardware isn't an impressive feat.

It doesn't have to have the SAME power - merely ENOUGH power to do what the user wants to do. It's why tablets, slates, Ultrabooks, and even netbooks are selling - and why traditional-desktop sales have been largely flat (outside of niches, such as higher-end gaming, desktop virtualization, etc.).

My last series of hardware upgrades was largely NOT defined by gaming - because the GPU remained unchanged - but by another niche use - desktop virtualization. GPU performance is far from important for desktop virtualization; instead, CPU features and memory are the major upgrade drivers. My next series of upgrades is also heavily driven by the needs of desktop virtualization - my current CPU supports VT-x, so the upgrade will support Hyper-V and SLAT (moving from Q6600 to i5-3570K on the CPU end, and from 4GB DDR2 to 16GB of DDR3); the only upgrade even remotely related to gaming is replacing the AMD HD5450 I'm running currently with an AMD HD7770. All those upgrades are, in point of fact, better leveraged by Windows 8 as opposed to Windows 7. However, I'm just as much an outlier as you are - albeit in a different direction.

I pointed out in another thread in this forum (The Real Reason Behind the FUD Surrounding Windows 8) that, by and large, folks find their current hardware more than adequate for what they do with it - and this is especially true with desktop PC users. Instead, folks are buying mobile hardware - smartphones, tablet, slates, netbooks, Ultrabooks, etc. They haven't managed to get ME to buy a mobile device (not even a legacy notebook) because it would be too different in terms of OS or applications from my desktop.

Along comes Windows 8/WindowsRT. It suits my primary desktop use (desktop virtualization) more than Windows 7 does, and also works darn well in terms of my secondary uses (writing/editing, gaming - including casual gaming, etc.). For mobile use, Windows 8 on an x64 Ultrabook or derivative can, in fact, do everything my desktop does - even WindowsRT can meet all my secondary usage metrics - and with no learning curve whatever. That can't be said of Android - not even ICS - let alone iOS. Note that touch isn't even on the radar.

I don't need portable hardware that is identical in power to my desktop (which is your assumption as to what portable hardware purchasers want) - I simply need/want enough power and capability to do what I need/want to do with as little fuss/muss as I can get away with. Yes - I'm an admitted outlier - however, I'm not the sort of outlier you are thinking of.

[xWhiplash]

So does the Run command ...

Except there is more of a chance I will need to scroll down to see more folders. The start menu is much larger and has a lot more folders before the need to scroll.

I guess I forgot Windows 8 cannot be used the way we want it to. Only the way other people want me to use it. I prefer to type it in the start menu, it is now a habit and incredibly fast for me to do so.

[Noir Angel]

It doesn't have to have the SAME power - merely ENOUGH power to do what the user wants to do. It's why tablets, slates, Ultrabooks, and even netbooks are selling - and why traditional-desktop sales have been largely flat (outside of niches, such as higher-end gaming, desktop virtualization, etc.).

My last series of hardware upgrades was largely NOT defined by gaming - because the GPU remained unchanged - but by another niche use - desktop virtualization. GPU performance is far from important for desktop virtualization; instead, CPU features and memory are the major upgrade drivers. My next series of upgrades is also heavily driven by the needs of desktop virtualization - my current CPU supports VT-x, so the upgrade will support Hyper-V and SLAT (moving from Q6600 to i5-3570K on the CPU end, and from 4GB DDR2 to 16GB of DDR3); the only upgrade even remotely related to gaming is replacing the AMD HD5450 I'm running currently with an AMD HD7770. All those upgrades are, in point of fact, better leveraged by Windows 8 as opposed to Windows 7. However, I'm just as much an outlier as you are - albeit in a different direction.

I pointed out in another thread in this forum (The Real Reason Behind the FUD Surrounding Windows 8) that, by and large, folks find their current hardware more than adequate for what they do with it - and this is especially true with desktop PC users. Instead, folks are buying mobile hardware - smartphones, tablet, slates, netbooks, Ultrabooks, etc. They haven't managed to get ME to buy a mobile device (not even a legacy notebook) because it would be too different in terms of OS or applications from my desktop.

Along comes Windows 8/WindowsRT. It suits my primary desktop use (desktop virtualization) more than Windows 7 does, and also works darn well in terms of my secondary uses (writing/editing, gaming - including casual gaming, etc.). For mobile use, Windows 8 on an x64 Ultrabook or derivative can, in fact, do everything my desktop does - even WindowsRT can meet all my secondary usage metrics - and with no learning curve whatever. That can't be said of Android - not even ICS - let alone iOS. Note that touch isn't even on the radar.

I don't need portable hardware that is identical in power to my desktop (which is your assumption as to what portable hardware purchasers want) - I simply need/want enough power and capability to do what I need/want to do with as little fuss/muss as I can get away with. Yes - I'm an admitted outlier - however, I'm not the sort of outlier you are thinking of.

But that wasn't my real point, my point was that these machines are designed to do different things.

[George P Global Moderator]

Sure, I use a lot of pinned applications myself, but if you want to use applications you don't have pinned you still have to trawl through it. And you can't stop it from being there when you start up either, it's simply there. I know it can be dismissed but that's not really the point, the current start menu goes away and stays away until I need it.

It coming up when you boot makes sense, because while you have the apps pinned to the taskbar your first option after login is to start apps. So for me i'll check the live tiles for new info, then go ahead and start an app which will probably be a desktop app so I'll be in the desktop. Then i'll start the rest of my pinned apps after that. The general user will do much the same, see live tiles for updates then start an app, either way that's just what you do first.

I've also never really trawled though the start menu or the start screen, just start typing and hit enter and my apps start. Since Vista brought that feature you'd think more and more people would be using it, and maybe they are now, I don't have user data.

I'm not saying the start screen is perfect, it's not, it needs more options and more ways to customize it but I also don't agree that it's this huge thing that will get in the way of my traditional desktop work so much that I'll want to through my system out of a window.

[xWhiplash]

But that wasn't my real point, my point was that these machines are designed to do different things.

Agreed. And tablets are very useful for some things. But please, can anybody give me a valid reason as to why my studio computer needs to act like a tablet? I have my way of doing things. I have done them enough to the point where I do not even need to think. I am not going to change my productivity because of a new OS.

I will deal with it as everybody keeps on saying by not buying Windows 8. If enough people "deal with it" like I do, things will start hurting even the people that love Windows 8 because sales might be too poor.

[Charisma Veteran]

As you imply, I think our disagreement on this issue is down to what we're both after from our desktop PCs.

I haven't ever liked the current Windows way of working (version 7-): Having multiple windows open on screen, all overlapping, being able to resize them etc. This new approach seems, to me, to be how Windows should have always worked. To me, it feels as if it makes sense, and I find the user experience all 'round to be much more enjoyable. When using a desktop PC with a large monitor, I especially enjoy the full-screen splash screens that appear whenever I open a new app, or whenever I use a feature that utilises a contract or extension (e.g. when picking a file), probably due to how beautiful they look with the different colours and white, monochrome icons.

And I can respect that. I think you are right--we like/need different things in our desktops.

I really like being able to have multiple windows, partially overlapping if necessary, resizing, etc. It allows me to function most efficiently. For example--right now I can see my Outlook inbox, my ticket-tracking system for IT requests that come in, this Firefox window, and the IE window (for our internal Sharepoint site) all at once. I can keep an eye on everything without having to switch around all the time and have fullscreen flashing around constantly. At home it is a similar story with Firefox, Skype, IRC, iTunes/Rhythmbox. I can minimise if needed, or I can have part of a window hidden by another so I can just see a certain area as needed (say, an area where notifications appear), switching to it when necessary... etc.