Man orders high-definition TV, gets high-caliber gun instead

[KingCracker]

The stats I see tell me that statistically my chances of dying from gun violence are actually higher enough when there are liberal gun laws. As my chance is lower overall of dying in gun violence I'm happy to take those odds

I've been to london plenty of times and I don't see gangs roaming the streets with machine pistols and assault rifles :laugh: and given that 39 people died from gun violence in 2011 they can't be that much of a threat :laugh:

Strange, because you seem to have just as much hate for us as you claim I have for you. Are you even capable of being honest?

I love gaming, I don't own 8 PC's. I love cycling, I don't own 8 bikes. Nobody needs 8 guns, not even for sports shooting.

Fire extinguishers aren't items designed to kill. Making them freely available can't possibly increase the amount of deaths.

Nah I just dislike you and people like you. Waits for you to call me a killer in waiting

[SupportGeek]

Sure, go live in London where Somalian gangs roam with assault rifles and machine pistols.

Not to mention swarm attacks are fairly common in the UK. Why have a gun when you can convince 15 of your friends to jump 1 or 2 people and kill them, or at least disable them for life.

I have a lot of family in the UK, one of my cousins close friends (yes I had met him) was walking home from the pub one night with another friend, they were attacked by about a dozen young thugs, he now has permanent brain damage from the number of kicks to the head he sustained in the attack, he will never be the same, but Javik would say thats A-OK because no guns were used!

[SupportGeek]

I love gaming, I don't own 8 PC's. I love cycling, I don't own 8 bikes. Nobody needs 8 guns, not even for sports shooting.

You dont love cycling as much as you think then, a friend of mine likes to compete, and has at least 6 bikes that Ive seen, and always buys more as new features and accessories become integrated into the cycles.

Do you have a touring bike for around town? A mountain bike for off roading? how about a sport bike for higher speeds?

Do you own a PC? XBox? PS3? Wii? other consoles? Any handhelds? how about a smartphone with game apps? Tablet? If not, you dont love gaming really, you just like it.

Different tools for different jobs and circumstances.

Its easy to own 8 firearms and really not have much if any overlap

Shotgun for waterfowling/skeet, shotgun for home defense, small caliber bolt gun or semi-auto for varminting, larger caliber bolt gun for larger game, handgun for HD, handgun for competitions, small caliber handgun to practice for competitions (ammo is way cheaper so more practice time), and perhaps an AR style rifle for a variety of uses.

Fire extinguishers aren't items designed to kill. Making them freely available can't possibly increase the amount of deaths.

You succeeded at missing the point completely, but thats not surprising, its not about the item, its about being prepared for the need. I knew you wouldn't be able to get around trying to change the focus of the point though, you are kind of a broken record.

Also firearms are not "freely available", you really need to go find out more on whats involved in obtaining one.

[Tender Foot]

Fire extinguishers aren't items designed to kill. Making them freely available can't possibly increase the amount of deaths.

Allot of items aren't designed to kill but they do, Car & trucks are readily available and they kill more people than guns do each year and they weren't designed to kill but they do.

[Southern Patriot]

I would agree, it is relative, I would love to have any one of them as a neighbour, its nice to have knowledgeable people who share interests as friends.

Thanks. If you ever make it to south Mississippi, drop me a message. We can go visit a friend of mine who has a big plot of land (basically his own shooting range) and lots of different types of guns we can try out.

[DocM]

You keep repeatedly refusing to tell me how many gun related deaths you think is too many, pretty telling tbh. And the only realistic reason for that could be that no number, regardless of how high would be too many in your eyes, thus proving my point that guns are more important to you than people's lives.

Roughly, the number of justifiable homicides it takes to save an innocent person or cops life. That is 95%+ up to the bad guys.

Very few burglars are armed, they're opportunists.

Your experience is blinding you to our experience and the scope of our problem. The FBI says 1 armed robbery (which includes armed breakins & home invasions) about every 5 seconds, so with 31,557,600 sec/yr x .2 that totals about 6,311,520.

Counts all weapons which can be otherwise innocent items like baseball bats, pipes, knives, hammers etc. Those can kill you dead as Julius Caesar too.

[JonathanMarston]

To those that think any of us that own guns are just as bad as killers because we like to have guns (for hunting, sport, recreation, self-defense, etc) even though some people use them to kill, I have a question for you: do you drink? Do you think we should ban alcohol? The reason I ask is in the United States I am more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by getting shot.

Now, you say, alcohol wasn't designed to kill and guns were. It could be argued that alcohol is a toxin, so in a way it was "designed" (more like discovered) to kill, but that's not the point I'm trying to make. Instead, let me use the same argument I've seen used here against firearms and apply it to alcohol:

If alcohol wasn't freely available, none of the 18,000 deaths per year caused by drunk driving would have happened. Now, how many deaths is too many? 100,000/year? 1,000,000/year? If everyone around you was getting killed by drunk drivers, would you still be against banning alcohol?

Now, I do want to be clear that I am not saying we should ban alcohol. On the contrary, although I personally don't drink (for various reasons), I think people should be free to do what as they choose (although I find anyone that would dare operate a motor vehicle under the influence to be absolutely disgusting). I only use alcohol as an example to demonstrate the absurdity of the arguments being made in this thread.

[Skin]

get wrong package... look into gun... call cops - rather than shipping back to the company ASAP.

yup, seems legit.

[JonathanMarston]

Allot of items aren't designed to kill but they do, Car & trucks are readily available and they kill more people than guns do each year and they weren't designed to kill but they do.

Strange, isn't it? The evil guns that were designed to kill are being outdone by other things that weren't designed to kill. In fact, nearly all guns in the USA are used for purposes other than killing humans. Could it be that it has less to do with what the object is, and more about what people do with them?

[Southern Patriot]

get wrong package... look into gun... call cops - rather than shipping back to the company ASAP.

yup, seems legit.

Legally, since he was in DC, he couldn't even posess it, therefore even taking it to be shipped back would have be a crime. He actually did the only rational (and legal) thing that he could do.

[Skin]

Legally, since he was in DC, he couldn't even posess it, therefore even taking it to be shipped back would have be a crime. He actually did the only rational (and legal) thing that he could do.

:rolleyes:

Of course going to the closest non-DC post-office, or just sending the package via UPS would have gotten him back his TV in a couple days - with not one person caring what was shipped.

He created the situation it became.... then the media got involved. yeah, again, seems legit.

[Southern Patriot]

:rolleyes:

Of course going to the closest non-DC post-office, or just sending the package via UPS would have gotten him back his TV in a couple days - with not one person caring what was shipped.

He created the situation it became.... then the media got involved. yeah, again, seems legit.

Roll your eyes at yourself. The second that he set foot outside his door with that gun, he would have been committing a crime. Shipping that gun without a federal firearms license would have been a felony, no matter how he shipped it. And it wouldn't have made the first bit of difference in getting him his TV. If you read through some of the comments here, other news reports have stated that it seems that the shipping label from his TV accidentally got stuck to the box with the gun inside.

[Noir Angel]

Roughly, the number of justifiable homicides it takes to save an innocent person or cops life. That is 95%+ up to the bad guys.

Most of the victims of gun crime aren't justifiable homicides, they're cold murders. 60% of your homicides are directly caused by gun crime, you cannot honestly tell me that you're so daft that you think all of those are justifiable self defence shoots?

[Skin]

Roll your eyes at yourself. The second that he set foot outside his door with that gun, he would have been committing a crime. Shipping that gun without a federal firearms license would have been a felony, no matter how he shipped it. And it wouldn't have made the first bit of difference in getting him his TV. If you read through some of the comments here, other news reports have stated that it seems that the shipping label from his TV accidentally got stuck to the box with the gun inside.

:rolleyes:

[StevenJ]

I don't see what the issue is with calling the police?

Personally I wouldn't even handle the gun as soon as I found out what it is.

Call the police straight away and let them seize it-- I wouldn't even touch it.

Are you really attempting to blame the recipient? The company ****ed up, REALLY ****ed up by doing this. If he is an ex-con and was even in the same room as that gun he's looking to get screwed.

Take my advice: if you are ever in a situation like this, and see something is clearly wrong, whether you are finding a gun in your mailbox or find child porn on a client's computer you're fixing, stop exactly at that point, perform no further actions, just call the police and write down each and every detail, feature, and name with time and date stamps.

[HawkMan]

So to all the guys who would have kept the gun, ignoring the fact that the intended owner would have reported it and the seller would have figured it out.

What exactly do you think you'd be doing with an illegal unregistered gun... Pretty sure you can't bring it to the range, and shooting intruders in home defense with an illegal gun sounds like a patently stupid idea.

[HawkMan]

:rolleyes:

Of course going to the closest non-DC post-office, or just sending the package via UPS would have gotten him back his TV in a couple days - with not one person caring what was shipped.

He created the situation it became.... then the media got involved. yeah, again, seems legit.

In what ways it not legit? I'm not sure you're using the right word here. It's not like he tricked sender to send him the gun.

[articuno1au]

The problem in America isn't that you have guns. The problem is the people who have the guns, and the type of guns they have.

I'm sure DocM et all are more than capable of handling their weapons safely (and indeed, you don't attain the kind of knowledge they are showing without learning the safety to go with it), for each DocM you have 5 retards with access to the same kinds of weapons.

The biggest issue is that DocM et all (from this point on, just DocM for simplicity) justify weapons by saying "We are safe so why take them off us". The simple answer to this is that most of your compatriots just ****ing aren't.

Guns are absolutely designed to kill. They are also tools, not sentient beings (much like hammer). The issue is that it's much harder to kill someone with a hammer than it is an assault rifle. If you hand a drugged up ****-tard a hammer, and replayed the same scenario with a gun, I guarantee the gun would result in more deaths (despite his lack of training).

The argument that alcohol causes more deaths is pointless. The difference is in societies values. We accept that alcohol is ok to use overwhelmingly. Most of the world doesn't feel the same way about guns (and I would be inclined to suggest most Americans don't either).

Personally I'm in favour of the US constitution. I think it's an amazing piece of written work that is universally misapplied by its people. I'm also in favour of the populous being allowed weapons, but I don't think it should be a carte blanche right to own assault weapons.

I think that the army ought certify individuals to own certain classes of weapon. Part of the certification ought be proficiency, safety and psychological profiling. I'm sure DocM would pass (a few others I doubt), but even if you aren't passed for the weapons class; this is an area where its in better be safe than sorry.

The one thing beyond this that I would say is that users should stop acting like owning a weapon is a god given right. It is not. It's a man given right which most of the world disagrees with. You are a vast minority, the vast majority of which ought not be in possession of a weapon (that's why you are a minority btw).

The thing that ****es me off about this argument most is the way (the proverbial) DocM instantly takes the hard line "Guns aren't bad" approach. You repeatedly claim that guns are tools and are affected by the intent of their user, but refuse to acknowledge this intent in the overarching debate. I'd love to see one of you guys say "Yeah owning a gun in this case was a bad thing". There are dozens of articles where in this is the right answer (and you know it) but you won't say that because you feel your rights/lifestyle are being attacked.

Either way, I honestly think you should take a more reasoned approach. You'd shut up the people like Javik by giving them nothing to attack, and when they don't shut up they would be thought idiots by the greater majority because they were clearly trying to pick a fight. I think the same is true of users like KingCracker on the other side of the debate.

As a post script. I hope that people understand I'm not attacking you with this post. The point wasn't to start an argument or single anyone out, just to enter the debate. In particular DocM, I'm just using you as an example, not intending to single you out or prescribe you beliefs/views you don't have (also figured you were the one least likely to get ****y about it :\)

[Southern Patriot]

I'm sure DocM et all are more than capable of handling their weapons safely (and indeed, you don't attain the kind of knowledge they are showing without learning the safety to go with it), for each DocM you have 5 retards with access to the same kinds of weapons.

Given the number of gun owners in the US vs. the number of gun-related deaths (excluding suicides and legitimate police and self defense shootings), I'd say your ratio is at least backwards there, and even then you are probably overestimating the percentage if idiots by quite a bit.

The one thing beyond this that I would say is that users should stop acting like owning a weapon is a god given right. It is not. It's a man given right which most of the world disagrees with.

I think that you (and many others) misunderstand the definition of a right. Rights are inherent in people, privileges are given by man/government.

[Charisma Veteran]

I get a kick out of the thread title saying "high-caliber" when it nothing of the kind. It's a .30 caliber, the same as most medium caliber rifles made since the .30-30 Winchester came out in 1895 and used by the vast majority of deer hunters in one form or another; .30-06, .300 Mag, .308 Winchester, .30-30, etc.

Wanna talk high-caliber? Talk a .50 BMG, .416 Barrett or .338 Lapua.

I think it was just to parallel the "high-definition" part, to be a catchy headline. Close enough.

[Southern Patriot]

Here's an image that points out the stupidity of those who use caliber (the physical diameter of the bullet in hundredths or thousands of an inch) to define how powerful a gun is. On the left is a .22 caliber round (typically used for rodent control or target shooting), on the right is a .223 caliber round (as used in guns such as the AR-15, etc). There is only 3 thousandths of an inch difference in the bullet itself, but the .223 round is FAR more powerful.

[HawkMan]

Really? Are you sure about that?......

/s

:p