[BREAKING] Apple V. Samsung Jury reaches verdict.

[Vice]

Indeed. I edited my post (while you were likely typing this one) to state the Samsung HAS brought up the prior art argument using multiple examples, and were denied.

I really think they should have done that before this case though. They had ample opportunity to contest that patent and so has every other company on the face of the earth. But they waited until now while infringing on it, they have no one to blame but themselves in my opinion.

or at least licensed under FRAND terms.

I'm looking silly. Ooohkay. :rolleyes:

Apple offered to license all their patents that were being infringed to Samsung. Samsung refused. I'm sure you're aware of this but you'll probably counter by saying the deal wasn't fair enough to meet FRAND stipulations. Something I disagree with before you ask me for evidence on why I believe their offer was fair it's just my opinion.

[Arceles]

All manufacturers should join and put a community demand or whatever...

[+Mud W1ggle Subscriber²]

The tilt in the George Foreman is a unique feature their competitors don't have. Apples rounded corners were a unique feature their competitors didn't have. I really don't see a difference here. If Samsung believed Apples patent with regards to the rounded corners were invalid they should have contested that in a separate court case way before Apple brought a suit against them. They could have used prior art to invalidate that patent, they didn't do that.

Take it up with Samsung buddy.

Cell phones have had rectangular shapes with rounded corners long before Apple came on the scene. It should not be a patentable idea. Every single cellphone I have ever owned was rectangular with rounded corners. ****, even the Original Motorola Dynatac fits this description.

How could a South Korean company win a court case against an American Company in America with an American Jury on the plaintiff's back step, The conclusion was foregone before the case even started.

The result was not unexpected, but its still wrong.

[Vice]

Cell phones have had rectangular shapes with rounded corners long before Apple came on the scene. It should not be a patentable idea. Every single cellphone I have ever owned was rectangular with rounded corners. ****, even the Original Motorola Dynatac fits this description.

How could a South Korean company win a court case against an American Company in America with an American Jury on the plaintiff's back step, The conclusion was foregone before the case even started.

The result was not unexpected, but its still wrong.

Based on what you just said it sounds like you're saying Samsung was always going to lose regardless because the Jury just wanted the American company to win? - That is a pretty outlandish accusation. But I agree with you that Apple shouldn't have been awarded that patent as there have been many many products with rounded corners long before Apple as a company even existed there has been consumer products with rounded corners. But again, no one contested it, why did they let Apple keep this patent and why did they willfully infringe on it?

In my life I have to abide by laws, I can't just cross the street without using a proper cross walk or I'd be breaking the law. If I don't agree with that law I don't just willfully ignore it and do whatever I want because I know I could get penalized for doing so. The proper way to go about protesting a bad law is by using the court system to change the law, Samsung didn't do that and so I have little sympathy for them. And yes this is an analogy I'm not saying a patent is a law or anything like that.

[BajiRav]

Please give us just one example where say pinch-to-zoom was implemented before the iPhone came along?

Like it or not, Apple have brought significant innovation to this space in both interaction and industrial design.

If you take a totally unbiased view of this you would know that this is fact! You don't have to like Apple to admit it.

Apple didn't invent pinch-to-zoom or other multi-touch gestures. They either licensed it or bought someone who did it. There is not one inventor of multi-touch gestures and that's the reason Microsoft had it in Surface which was announced after iPhone but shipped before it (IIRC). This is the reason Android didn't have multi-touch in early days (I think 2.1?) because Google knew patents would be a problem.

Cell phones have had rectangular shapes with rounded corners long before Apple came on the scene. It should not be a patentable idea. Every single cellphone I have ever owned was rectangular with rounded corners. ****, even the Original Motorola Dynatac fits this description.

How could a South Korean company win a court case against an American Company in America with an American Jury on the plaintiff's back step, The conclusion was foregone before the case even started.

The result was not unexpected, but its still wrong.

I think rectangle with rounded corner is over-simplification. Apple accused Samsung of trade dress violation again IIRC and can be wrong on this. It was sum of all things Samsung copied not just one or the other.

[Matthew_Thepc]

My hands feel better when holding my sharp-edged Lumia and Xperia phone than they do when holding my iPhone. The former two phones' sharp edges don't poke me at all. Does this count as evidence invalidating the poking claim? If not, then you might begin to understand why the evidence in favor doesn't count as evidence either.

apologies if I got this wrong, but aren't the sides of the Lumia 800/900 rounded? and the Lumia 710 has rounded corners too :)

And while it's not very pronounced, the Xperia S does have rounded corners:

My point was in respect to having absolutely pointy corners and sides - the way I read it, you were saying that having a phone with pointed edges somehow feels the same, or better, than a phone with rounded corners/sides. If you were just trying to say that a phone with such pronounced rounded corners as the iPhone doesn't necessarily feel better in the hand than something with less-rounded corners, then I apologize for reading your comment wrong.

Because it doesn't naturally follow that a phone with rounded corners is easier to hold. That's why you need evidence.

I'm certainly not against evidence (and I'll admit I definitely haven't seen a study saying that people prefer rounded corners over pointy ones), but just building off of past experiences I'm trying to make a point that is reasonably correct for the majority of people.

I can also say that phones with rounded corners are more difficult to hold and declare it as unassailable fact without evidence, too, but I'm not going to because such a line of argument is nonsensical.

and I could say that people prefer to eat chocolate cake over broccoli. It's definitely not true for everyone - I'm sure there are many people in the world who would prefer broccoli - but it's a well-accepted fact that a majority of people prefer the taste of chocolate over the taste of broccoli.

If I stick you with the pointy end of a knife you'd feel worse than if I threw a ball at you. People simply prefer smooth surfaces over pointy ones because over our evolution we've somehow figured out that pointy objects + skin (more often than not) = pain.

IMO, you don't understand how logic works.

Live long and prosper, my friend :laugh:

[Guest LiquidCrystalMeth]

This is a sad day for tech

It will be interesting to see what happens going forward, especially considering google provided some of the patents to assist Samsung in refuting Apples argument. I dont see google allowing it to die away and leave Samsung on its own.

The fight cannot be over

I think the appeal will be more interesting and hopefully Samsung will get better legal representation and they will prevail.

Apple is nothing more than an anti-competitive patent bully with tenuous at best ability to assert its so called patents

Seriously the jury should hang its head in shame on this one, an absolute travesty

Just reinforced my stance on never buying Apple anything, i dont want those ******** getting a cent from me.

Personally ill be happy when Apple and all its sheep customers are banished form this earth.

[Rudy]

To be honest I think the outcome of this might actually be productive. Samsung is a great company and I own many of their products, but their phones were clearly trying to emulate the iPhone. MS managed to do something different (not my cup of tea but it looks nothing like the iPhone which is good), Samsung has some great people working for them and I know they can do better.

Maybe they'll turn things around completely and to be honest if they come out with something completely innovative, I would consider buying a phone from them.

[dead.cell]

Countersuing a patent troll and forcing them to settle under reasonable terms - as opposed to $30-40 per device - has proven to be a very good way of protecting consumer choice and innovation. I don't see any hypocrisy here, sorry.

Yeah, that'll solve everything... :rolleyes:

<pic>

Hadn't seen that one. Pretty sexy if I do say so myself. :o

[Boz]

All that really needs to be said about this.. watch this video carefully

[tsupersonic]

It's great Apple has successfully exploited the US patent system and hurt the consumers in the end. Way to go Apple!

[Boz]

and btw.. did Apple innovate anything? This is a fun video going through Apple fans submitting what they think Apple invented

[Boz]

Great take.. was anyone surprised that California jury would rule anything against Apple?

The jury's quick decision ? just two days of deliberations in an immensely complex case, with more than 100 pages of instructions from the judge ? surely means the panel members had made up their minds in the courtroom and spent most of their time in the jury room filling out a 20-page form of checkboxes and granular detail. And on almost every point that mattered, they gave Apple what it wanted. The jury tossed out virtually all of Samsung's counter-claims against Apple for infringement on its own patents, and awarded no damages to Samsung.

Crucially, the jury found none of Apple's patents invalid, despite substantial evidence that others anticipated many of the innovations that Apple put together when it released its first iPhone. This is a shame, because Apple's abuse of our out-of-control patent system has given Apple its chief ammunition in its global campaign to destroy Google's Android operating system, which Samsung (and many others) adopted for its smart phones.

The California jury's decision came a day after three Korean judges handed down a mixed decision in a similar case, saying both companies had violated some patents and ordering several products ? mostly older ones that barely figure in today's market ? off store shelves.

Now, I'm not a fan of Samsung. Like so many others in the technology world, it has has behaved in ethically questionable ways. And it quite plainly did mimic much of the functionality of the iPhone ? though it was Apple's longtime CEO, Steve Jobs, who famously quoted Picasso's adage that good artists copy and great artists steal.

But in recent years, I have become even less a fan of Apple. It is now the uber-bully of the technology industry, and is using its surging authority ? and vast amounts of cash ? in ways that are designed to lock down our future computing and communications in the newest frontier of smart phones and tablets.

In the end, Apple will settle for nothing less than outright capitulation by Samsung ? and, by extension, other Android device makers ? in what Jobs called a "thermonuclear war", which he planned, before his death, to wage on Android. If Apple is successful, either all Android manufacturers will pay Apple a license fee, or Apple will simply make it too expensive, via lawsuits, for other phone makers to compete. And if that happens, Apple's financial dominance in smart phones (Android leads in overall numbers of units sold) and overwhelming dominance in the tablet market could be insurmountable. Users of technology should worry about that scenario, for many reasons.

http://www.guardian....tech-domination

[techbeck]

According to you I need evidence that things without rounded corners can stick you. I think you need to do some homework on that one yourself as you looked pretty silly saying that.

Really doesnt pay to argue with that guy. According to him, I am not allow to voice my opinion about anything.

Still think the jury decision was a quick one considering the trial lasted for a few weeks. Not the only one who thinks so but hey, I am sure Samsung will appeal and they will straighten things out.

Kinda bored of Samsung to be honest. Waiting for Google to announce and confirm the next Nexus line of phones.

In the end, Apple will settle for nothing less than outright capitulation by Samsung ? and, by extension, other Android device makers ? in what Jobs called a "thermonuclear war", which he planned, before his death, to wage on Android. If Apple is successful, either all Android manufacturers will pay Apple a license fee, or Apple will simply make it too expensive, via lawsuits, for other phone makers to compete. And if that happens, Apple's financial dominance in smart phones (Android leads in overall numbers of units sold) and overwhelming dominance in the tablet market could be insurmountable. Users of technology should worry about that scenario, for many reasons.

Going to get worse before it gets better. If Apple starts to aggressively go after other companies, just proves, IMO, they are out to sue the competition rather than compete. There is an Acer phone that looks similar as well as another company (cannot remember the name). So we shall see what happens with them.

Yes, it was obvious what Samsung did but they also had a good case. I find it "odd" that Apple wins most of its arguments while Samsung didnt win one thing. But oh well, life goes on and Apple cannot stop Android...maybe slow it a little but it isnt going anywhere

[Boz]

Wow what a shocker..and these guys are deciding the future of technology/smartphone/tablet industry? Holy smokes.

How qualified is the Apple-Samsung jury? We found out

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57499944-37/how-qualified-is-the-apple-samsung-jury-we-found-out/

[Xerxes]

It's kinda funny, while Apple have been busy trying to destroy Android they are completely forgetting Microsoft. When Apple make it too expensive to make Android phones, who do you think they'll [OEMs] jump ship too (or in the case of the OEMs already supporting multiple OSs, shift their focus too)? Windows Phone! Microsoft will rise as a serious force to be reckoned with. Not to mention Apple will have no chance of suing MS off the market and will be forced to compete with WP directly. Good luck Apple, enjoy your little victory. You might of won the battle but the war isn't over yet ;)

[techbeck]

When Apple make it too expensive to make Android phones, who do you think they'll [OEMs] jump ship too (or in the case of the OEMs already supporting multiple OSs, shift their focus too)?

To expensive to make an android phone? Not going to happen. There are other companies other than Samsung that make android devices. Apple is not going to stop Android.

[Xerxes]

To expensive to make an android phone? Not going to happen. There are other companies other than Samsung that make android devices. Apple is not going to stop Android.

This ruling doesn't just affect Samsung though, it's a precedent that if successful will allow Apple to go forward and start suing other Android OEMs. Don't think for a minute Apple is going to stop at Samsung, this is just the opening battle of a much larger war...

[techbeck]

This ruling doesn't just affect Samsung though, it's a precedent that if successful will allow Apple to go forward and start suing other Android OEMs. Don't think for a minute Apple is going to stop at Samsung, this is just the opening battle of a much larger war...

Which I have said a few times myself in this thread. Apple will go after other Manufactures and will just prove they are out to sue than compete. They only went after Samsung because they are the number one Android maker. The ONLY reason Apple won this case is because they patent EVERYTHING. We are going to see much more patent trolling from Apple and others now because Apple winning the case, shows others that patent trolling works and you can profit from it. I agree some things need to be protected, but some of the things that were sued over were silly and never should of happened.

Glad this kind of BS doesnt happen with other products. I am sure it happens on some level, but not to the extent of Apple/Samsung.

[Xerxes]

Which I have said a few times myself in this thread. Apple will go after other Manufactures and will just prove they are out to sue than compete. They only went after Samsung because they are the number one Android maker.

I agree with you. Apple can't handle competition.

[techbeck]

Think Google should get on patenting the drop down notification system ASAP....or else Apple will have it patented soon.

[BattleDaggit]

Keep'em coming Boz. Those videos are gold.

[szo]

Think Google should get on patenting the drop down notification system ASAP....or else Apple will have it patented soon.

Apple hired the guy who invented the Palm webos notification system.

[techbeck]

Apple hired the guy who invented the Palm webos notification system.

And? The Palm notification system is different that the one Google implemented and then later Apple copied. Shouldnt say copied because according to Apple, they dont steal/copy...they innovate.

Companies take ideas from others, Samsung went to the extreme. But thats what all companies do...anyone is a fool to think otherwise.

[szo]

In other news today,

Motorola lost its case against Apple

http://www.appleinsi...import_ban.html