Windows 8 - Unintuitivity at its best

[NeoandGeo]

You only need one hand for Ctrl-P, ctrl is two keys away from P. :p

[Dot Matrix]

so file > print wasn't a design standard and part of Microsofts UI specifications ? even on my mac it is file > print so not sure how you can describe that as unification ?

I also think ctr + p is going to be fun on a tablet - if you think about it for a second you need both hands on the keyboard or screen.

Why are you trying to do keyboard shortcuts on a tablet? Why is it so hard to swipe open the Charms menu?

[Rickkins]

Microsoft does extensive UX studies. If something wasn't working out, they'd know by now. It's how they came to the conclusion to kill the Start Menu.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....stop please, you're killing me.

The term "delusional" springs to mind.... :rolleyes:

[Routerbad]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....stop please, you're killing me.

The term "delusional" springs to mind.... :rolleyes:

Maybe I missed the humor there as well. The line you quoted is factual, irrespective of you opinion. :/

[LaP]

I'm very surprised that you wouldn't expect a printer to be labelled a 'device'. I would have deemed it a device, and I imagine I would have straight away looked at the Devices Charm to see if I could print something, considering I understand what the Charms are there for.

Why would he expect print to be under device.

He wants to print a file. He doesn't want to access the options of his printer. What about a direct link to print ? This action is done enough to warrant one. Apps had a printer icon in the toolbar for a reason ...

Anyone who says the file menu was illogical needs to think about it twice. The file menu contained actions you could do with a file. Print it. Save it. Access its properties. Create a new one. It's all perfectly and totally logical.

Going by the logic of some people here Save should be under Explorer. Cause when i want to access my hard disks options i open Explorer. And the file is saved to the hard disk.

[Calum Veteran]

Why would he expect print to be under device.

He wants to print a file. He doesn't want to access the options of his printer. What about a direct link to print ? This action is done enough to warrant one. Apps had a printer icon in the toolbar for a reason ...

Anyone who says the file menu was illogical needs to think about it twice. The file menu contained actions you could do with a file. Print it. Save it. Access its properties. Create a new one. It's all perfectly and totally logical.

Going by the logic of some people here Save should be under Explorer. Cause when i want to access my hard disks options i open Explorer. And the file is saved to the hard disk.

Printing is under Devices because it's something that one of his external devices does, and that is why I would think anyone who understands the Charms should think to look under that Charm (why I believe it's intuitive). I believe it makes perfect sense for there to be a dedicated Charm for all of the functions that connected devices do, rather than a dedicated Charm or button specifically just for printing.

[Depicus]

Printing is under Devices because it's something that one of his external devices does, and that is why I would think anyone who understands the Charms should think to look under that Charm (why I believe it's intuitive). I believe it makes perfect sense for there to be a dedicated Charm for all of the functions that connected devices do, rather than a dedicated Charm or button specifically just for printing.

Not sure what usability studies would say but I would have thought print would have enough to warrant a dedicated button in charms.

[Subhadip]

I am sorry I have to say this, but in the 10+ years I have been browsing Neowin, this is the ugliest these forums have gotten with personal insults being thrown around at will. I hope the moderators take action.

[Calum Veteran]

Not sure what usability studies would say but I would have thought print would have enough to warrant a dedicated button in charms.

Why, when there could be a dedicated Charm for everything connected devices do (printing the current document, printing a photo, backing up phone content, syncing files from the PC to a phone, syncing photos from a memory card to the PC etc)?

The Charms bar wouldn't be as usable and intuitive as it is if there were many more buttons on it, I don't think, and a separate button just for printing would make it less intuitive, considering printing is something a connected device does (like the other functions under the Devices Charm).

[neo1911]

The extreme polarity of views among forum members itself tells us that Windows 8 is a failure from UI to usability. If there was not a problem, we would have had extremely less rants here. The only stuff people would be complaining would be drivers and compatibility.

[Calum Veteran]

I am sorry I have to say this, but in the 10+ years I have been browsing Neowin, this is the ugliest these forums have gotten with personal insults being thrown around at will. I hope the moderators take action.

I haven't seen any insults in this thread, but I haven't scanned it thoroughly, so please let me know or report any posts that you believe break our rules. I think I've seen people refer to general groups as 'morons', but not maliciously, and they haven't called each other morons, from what I saw (but as I mention, I haven't had time to read the thread thoroughly, to know for sure).

[Routerbad]

I am sorry I have to say this, but in the 10+ years I have been browsing Neowin, this is the ugliest these forums have gotten with personal insults being thrown around at will. I hope the moderators take action.

If you feel so strongly, report the offending post...

Back on topic...

I would imagine they left it under devices because of some impending expansion to the functionality of that particular charm. Maybe they should have called it Send to... or something.

[Calum Veteran]

The extreme polarity of views among forum members itself tells us that Windows 8 is a failure from UI to usability. If there was not a problem, we would have had extremely less rants here. The only stuff people would be complaining would be drivers and compatibility.

I'm not so sure about that. I think that's just because it's a massive change and a big revolution. People are scared and assuming things that may not be true (e.g. their productivity will suffer). That's what it seems like to me, but I could be wrong, and some people's productivity may suffer (I don't know for sure, either).

People are worried that the average user won't find it usable, but if you sat an average user down in front of Windows 7 and they'd never used a computing device before, would they understand how to use it? Probably not. I don't think anyone can reasonably expect the average user to completely understand how the new experience works, just like no one can reasonably expect the average user to completely understand how Windows 7 works, if they've never used a computer before.

[Depicus]

Why, when there could be a dedicated Charm for everything connected devices do (printing the current document, printing a photo, backing up phone content, syncing files from the PC to a phone, syncing photos from a memory card to the PC etc)?

The Charms bar wouldn't be as usable and intuitive as it is if there were many more buttons on it, I don't think, and a separate button just for printing would make it less intuitive, considering printing is something a connected device does (like the other functions under the Devices Charm).

So do you think you are more likely on a regular basis to "share" than to print ?

[CentralDogma]

Maybe most of the "average users" will find it more user friendly than your parents? A sample consisting of two people isn't a good sample size. We won't know how intuitive most average users find it until it's been used by most of them and we've seen feedback :)

Once one understands the idea of the Charms bar, they should think to look there for functions that most applications have (search, settings, printing etc.). That's intuition, to me.

I don?t think you can just write off complains as simple edge cases at this point. I?m sure there were complains about the Superbar in Windows 7, but I think we can both agree that there was nowhere near this amount of animosity over Windows 7.

I am sorry I have to say this, but in the 10+ years I have been browsing Neowin, this is the ugliest these forums have gotten with personal insults being thrown around at will. I hope the moderators take action.

You should check out Real World Issues at some point :woot:

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

I would imagine they left it under devices because of some impending expansion to the functionality of that particular charm. Maybe they should have called it Send to... or something.

I suspect that Charm will eventually be used for a fair few things (a few examples: backing up one's Windows Phone, syncing files to one's Windows Phone, transferring files from a memory card to the computer etc). I think it should even be used to transfer files from external hard drives; perhaps features like that will be coming for that Charm in the next major update to Windows :)

So do you think you are more likely on a regular basis to "share" than to print ?

Hopefully. I share videos, photos, and links daily or at least most days out of the week, on Facebook. I rarely print, even at work as a software developer. But even if I did print a lot in my job (as some people might), the option is easily accessible from the Devices Charm. I still think it would be unintuitive and messy if they implemented a separate Print Charm along with the Devices Charm just because some people print more than they share content.

How often do you print?

[Routerbad]

So do you think you are more likely on a regular basis to "share" than to print ?

Probably. printing is expensive these days.

I had to prep toner order forms for one of the commands I was stationed at, I vomited a little. Printing at home is even less common, between the cost and the perceived permanence of digitizing physical content.

[Calum Veteran]

I don?t think you can just write off complains as simple edge cases at this point. I?m sure there were complains about the Superbar in Windows 7, but I think we can both agree that there was nowhere near this amount of animosity over Windows 7.

[. . .]

You're right, and I do agree with that. I'm actually worried that Windows 8 may end up provoking a terribly negative reception, because I love the direction Microsoft are going in and I'd rather the new experience evolve than be scrapped due to complaints.

[LaP]

I think it should even be used to transfer files from external hard drives;

Then it would make sense.

Cause the action to transfert a file to an external hd is almost the same than printing the file. Ultimately you send to file the an external device. One device store it on paper the other store it electronically.

[PGHammer]

I suspect that Charm will eventually be used for a fair few things (a few examples: backing up one's Windows Phone, syncing files to one's Windows Phone, transferring files from a memory card to the computer etc). I think it should even be used to transfer files from external hard drives; perhaps features like that will be coming for that Charm in the next major update to Windows :)

Hopefully. I share videos, photos, and links daily or at least a few times a week on Facebook. I rarely print.

How often do you print?

I get the criticism of Windows 8 over the massive UX change - I really do.

What I *don't* get are all the attempts to blow smoke up our posteriors and say that the criticism isn't about change when it most certainly is.

Even most of those that criticize Windows 8 say that it's the UX being so radically different that causes them all the grief.

With that being the case, why not simply leave it at that?

[Orange Battery]

Win 8 is not the best (comparing it as a beta tester for XP, Vista, 7 and 8) but I will be purchasing it due to the cheap pricing announced for UK.

Im not happy, I would happily drop Windows 8 if there was competition that could match windows 7's catchup over vista + the enhancements to Explorer in 8, but unfortunately there isn't.

MS need to take notice of customer feedback, Win 8 is not a happy medium between Desktop and Tablet, its a compromise at best.

[Depicus]

How often do you print?

Never :) but I also block Facebook, MSN and other social media sites at work.

[Rickkins]

I don?t think you can just write off complains as simple edge cases at this point. I?m sure there were complains about the Superbar in Windows 7,

Oh damn straight... and let me tell you I howled at the superbar nonsense myself. That is, until somebody figured out how to return it to the way it was in XP..... which I continue to use, even in win8. I strongly belong in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp.

I recall my favorite quote from those days, and I'll probably never forget this one... when discussing why ms had to move the "show desktop" button from the left side to the right side... some genius chimed in, and I quote, " I just fly my mouse down to the corner and bam I'm right there".... :rolleyes:

[PGHammer]

Win 8 is not the best (comparing it as a beta tester for XP, Vista, 7 and 8) but I will be purchasing it due to the cheap pricing announced for UK.

Im not happy, I would happily drop Windows 8 if there was competition that could match windows 7's catchup over vista + the enhancements to Explorer in 8, but unfortunately there isn't.

MS need to take notice of customer feedback, Win 8 is not a happy medium between Desktop and Tablet, its a compromise at best.

Yes - it IS a compromise; Dot Matrix and I (and several others) have pointed that out.

Here's the kicker - despite that, it excels in several areas where previous versions of Windows (despite being less of a compromise) stumbled or flat-out failed in by comparison.

Hardware backward compatibility - As much as some have tried (and failed) to prove otherwise, Windows 8 is actually one of the better versions in terms of backward-compatibility in terms of hardware.

Software backward compatibility - the view is actually better than in terms of hardware; Windows 8 actually has better backward compatibility with 7 than 7 did with Vista, or Vista with XP. You actually don't need newer hardware to switch to Windows 8; however, if you do, Windows 8 will take better advantage of that hardware than Windows 7 (or any earlier version of Windows, for that matter).

New APIs/applications/games - this is where the criticism and angst have set it for the winter (primarily on the app front). I get it; I remember the same sort of issues with Windows 95 and early Win32 applications. However, what the critics seem to have forgotten is that *unless* you are running WindowsRT, you DO have those Win32 applications (and a smaller number of Windows x64 applications as well) to run as alternatives. (Basically, the WinRT API and the apps thereof aren't a straitjacket.)

I am happily running Windows 8 today - on my desktop (Pro RTM x64), and it's not leaving anytime soon.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Why didn't they have some sort of action icon on the charms bar. When you tap it basic tasks for that application appear to the left, such as print