Thoughts: Windows 8 should have eliminated the legacy right click menu.

By Dot Matrix
in Microsoft (Windows)

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Apprentice

ranmas

Posted
Posted

The Explorer right click option is even more obsolete in Windows 8, due to much of the functionality appearing on the Ribbon at the top of the window. In fact, upon further inspection, ALL of the right click's functionality is duplicated in the Ribbon. So, it would be nice if the right click menu was gone, and I could access the entire Charms Bar (Win+C on the keyboard) just by right clicking here.

There's no usability being lost here.

Yeah, sorry to tell you but not all right click functionality is duplicated in the Ribbon. The only functionality that is duplicated in the Ribbon is stuff from Microsoft. If you have any development tools, or any other 3rd party tools installed that use the context menu then yes you are losing quite a bit of functionality if they were to remove it. Just to name a couple of tools real quick just for an example, Winrar creates a context menu option group that is not duplicated in the Ribbon, and TortoiseSVN also creates a context menu group. There are many other programs and useful scripts out the that make use of the context menu that It would be really painful if it was lost. A script that comes to mind is a 'Take Ownership' script that can be very helpful with some incorrect setting on files.

While I could see some of the options being duplicated in a charms bar somewhere, the context menu is there for a reason, it is not outdated, and it is not useless. No matter what some people seem to think that is would be just as fast to select a file, scroll your mouse to the top of the window to select what you want and then continue on, it will always be much faster, and easier to right click on the file to get what you want done. The same thing applies to things like personalize, view and sort by.

I also hate to tell you but refresh is not outdated. You might not need to use it much, but there are times that it does come in handy. Actually pretty much all of the items you think are outdated are quite useful, some more than others.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

I really don't think so, the fact that I work in the machines of most of them on a daily basis (Catia, AutoCAD, SolidWorks, ANSYS (physics simulation but also modeling)) makes me differ vastly on your opinion.

Edit: If anything, they want a power CAD user mouse, like special joysticks dedicated only for CAD but not touch.

SpacePilot_Pro.png

(http://www.maximumpc...s_cad_seem_cool)

DotMatrix Nightmare.

I was speaking *specifically* about mice.

If you use a digitizer (which is what that is), that's one thing. (Digitizers, are, in fact, common in AutoCAD.)

However, if you have multiple devices connected to your *workstation* - enough so that it looks like an octopus or squid - you wouldn't be so willy-nilly looking to add more.

Collaborator

contextfree

Posted
Posted

I disagree completely! People know me as a big Windows 8 fan, but even I admit that there are certain UI paradigms that work better with mouse and others work better with touch. Context menus work great with mouse, but not touch. At the same time, buttons on the edge of the screen work better with touch. This is why using the Mail app in Windows 8 is so cumbersome. I have to travel my mouse in large distances using my mouse. Mail app using touch is fantastic. I propose that Windows 8 is more adaptable to mouse and touch. Both context menu and app bars should be present so all types of input can be used. Finally, I would suggest that the desktop context menu be the same as the Metro style context menu, just for the sake of consistency.

The problem with this is that on Windows 8 right-click is used for both single-select and multiselect, which has the benefits of eliminating the need for Ctrl-Click, eliminating the need for double-click, making selection simpler and more consistent, and reducing the risk of accidentally clearing a selection, but it has the cost of meaning you can't really have a traditional context menu because multiselecting would be too annoying if it kept popping up every time you right-clicked to select an additional item. This does make contextual commands less efficient, but it's just a tradeoff really. It's actually pretty similar to how commanding worked on the original Mac OS (when menus were at the top of the screen and right-click did not exist) so it's not only a touch paradigm. Note I'm not saying it's ideal or necessarily better than a traditional mouse control scheme, just that there are benefits as well as costs. I think it might be possible to do better and come up with a best-of-both-worlds solution, maybe something like the contextual toolbar in Office, but it's tricky.

Rising Star

@Leo

Posted
Posted

The problem with this is that on Windows 8 right-click is used for both single-select and multiselect, which has the benefits of eliminating the need for Ctrl-Click, eliminating the need for double-click, making selection simpler and more consistent, and reducing the risk of accidentally clearing a selection, but it has the cost of meaning you can't really have a traditional context menu because multiselecting would be too annoying if it kept popping up every time you right-clicked to select an additional item. This does make contextual commands less efficient, but it's just a tradeoff really. It's actually pretty similar to how commanding worked on the original Mac OS (when menus were at the top of the screen and right-click did not exist) so it's not only a touch paradigm. Note I'm not saying it's ideal or necessarily better than a traditional mouse control scheme, just that there are benefits as well as costs. I think it might be possible to do better and come up with a best-of-both-worlds solution, maybe something like the contextual toolbar in Office, but it's tricky.

I have no problem with single/multiple selection as it is right now in Windows 7. :rolleyes:

Grand Master

Arceles

Posted
Posted

I was speaking *specifically* about mice.

If you use a digitizer (which is what that is), that's one thing. (Digitizers, are, in fact, common in AutoCAD.)

However, if you have multiple devices connected to your *workstation* - enough so that it looks like an octopus or squid - you wouldn't be so willy-nilly looking to add more.

That's not a digitizer, is an enhanced "CAD navigation device" -> HID specifically designed for CAD. Mouse is a HID too, a digitizer could be a tablet like the ones of Wacom (Also HID BTW but for a completely different purpose, main is not navigation). Great Scott, cables in a workstation have nothing to do with this matter.

Collaborator

contextfree

Posted
Posted

I have no problem with single/multiple selection as it is right now in Windows 7. :rolleyes:

Great. So now if we were designing a system with the primary goal being that @Leo has no problem with it, we'd have at least one candidate approach for implementing single/multiple selection.

Enthusiast

phailyoor

Posted
Posted

I hope they completely remove the ugly desktop interface. its old and busted up. time to take the trash out.

Ridiculousness level: Sane

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Ridiculousness level: Windows 8 user

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Ridiculousness level: :punch: :ermm: :pinch: <= Dot Matrix is here.

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Ridiculousness level:I'm ashamed to be part of this species<=People who think windowed computing needs to be removed.

Rising Star

@Leo

Posted
Posted

Ridiculousness level:I'm ashamed to be part of this species<=People who think windowed computing needs to be removed in a product called Windows.

Completed that for you. :laugh:

Enthusiast

phailyoor

Posted
Posted

Completed that for you. :laugh:

Nah. I think the idea of keepeing windowed comptuing applies to Mac OSX, Linux, Windows, Chrome OS, and just about any OS designed for a screen bigger than 10''(TV not included). I do agree that the idea of removing windows from ans OS called windows is extra ironic though.

Grand Master

PGHammer

Posted
Posted

That's not a digitizer, is an enhanced "CAD navigation device" -> HID specifically designed for CAD. Mouse is a HID too, a digitizer could be a tablet like the ones of Wacom (Also HID BTW but for a completely different purpose, main is not navigation). Great Scott, cables in a workstation have nothing to do with this matter.

Except that external cables equals clutter, and architects, engineers, designers, and other users that HAVE to use AutoCAD for a living (same applies to all CAD/CAE/CAM software) tend to loathe clutter to a degree not seen in the rest of humanity.

Wireless HIDs (keyboards, digitizers, etc.,) do have a reason for being - and it's not *just* portability. (Data point - I have been using both a wireless keyboard AND wireless mouse since before I upgraded to Windows 7, and I'm using the same keyboard and mouse today with Windows 8.)

Grand Master

bandit_liberty_rumble

Posted
Posted

Windowed computing can stay ... as long as the windows are tiled and not overlapping. As Windows was always meant to be. :)

Good idea. The shadows are gone already. The next step would be to strip the UI of its color...

post-5569-0-90528500-1347068057.png

  • @Leo and abysal
  • Like 2
Grand Master

Arceles

Posted
Posted

Except that external cables equals clutter, and architects, engineers, designers, and other users that HAVE to use AutoCAD for a living (same applies to all CAD/CAE/CAM software) tend to loathe clutter to a degree not seen in the rest of humanity.

Wireless HIDs (keyboards, digitizers, etc.,) do have a reason for being - and it's not *just* portability. (Data point - I have been using both a wireless keyboard AND wireless mouse since before I upgraded to Windows 7, and I'm using the same keyboard and mouse today with Windows 8.)

Whatever your point was, it's entirely lost with this response because now you're talking about the convenience of wireless over wired. I have a wireless mouse for work myself (verbatim touch) and a RAT 5 for home, I don't mind having a lot of cables in my home, my desk is clean though. I choose wireless by convenience for work, avoiding a lot of cables while in movement is always a great feature.

Grand Master

xendrome

Posted
Posted

I know this increases travel time, but with the way you can increase cursor speed today, it's a non issue. I can can cross my screens with only a slight bend in my wrist.

This would be total fail on my 30 inch 2560x1600 LCD..

  • MFH, Jose_49 and remixedcat
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Collaborator

contextfree

Posted
Posted

Good idea. The shadows are gone already. The next step would be to strip the UI of its color...

Charles Simonyi and other pioneers that came to Microsoft from PARC never wanted overlapping windows (because PARC's research had determined managing them was more trouble than it was worth), Bill Gates just wanted them so it could look more like the Mac and seem visually cooler (at the time). http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2008/10/01/user-interface-managing-windows-windows.aspx Now they can finally correct the mistake they made so many years ago. :)

  • bandit_liberty_rumble
  • Like 1
Grand Master

trag3dy

Posted
Posted

Except that external cables equals clutter, and architects, engineers, designers, and other users that HAVE to use AutoCAD for a living (same applies to all CAD/CAE/CAM software) tend to loathe clutter to a degree not seen in the rest of humanity.

Wireless HIDs (keyboards, digitizers, etc.,) do have a reason for being - and it's not *just* portability. (Data point - I have been using both a wireless keyboard AND wireless mouse since before I upgraded to Windows 7, and I'm using the same keyboard and mouse today with Windows 8.)

So you talk to everyone in the industry to know that for a fact do you? You should maybe say that you're talking about how you personally like your desktop, not others.

Anyways, the idea presented in the OP is terrible. It's hard to understand why anyone would think it's a good idea.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I also hate to tell you but refresh is not outdated. You might not need to use it much, but there are times that it does come in handy. Actually pretty much all of the items you think are outdated are quite useful, some more than others.

I use it too, but F5 is quicker to hit than right-clicking to hit it.

Honestly, through my trials, it seems that having a quick access to the Charms Bar via a mouse button solves most user complaints with Windows 8, right clicking or a side button might be that option in the future. I no longer have to invoke using a motion. But, it was just an idea guys since some of the commands have been moved over there already, and it provides a unified spot similar to other unified OS features.

Needless to say, that just like the Start Menu, the right click menu could disappear at any given time. Since Windows 8 is moving in a new direction, I betchya it's already being looked into. Something needs done with it though to better match the new paradigm.... But it seems that many here have not even accepted the changes already present.

Grand Master

Axel

Posted
Posted

I don't see any functional advantage to this. Only annoyance at having to move my mouse all the way to the other side of a 30 inch monitor when I want more options.

This is like designing a car and putting my radio controls beneath my seat because it gives the dash a cleaner look.

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