F1 World Championship 2013 Thread


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simonlang

Vettel and Webber: "Row is settled"

I appreciate that they need to settle things internally, but it sure looks a helluva lot like Webber was bang on the money with his "Seb will have protection" comment.

Also, a side-note about mclaren2's "winner types" that he likes - Armstrong (doped, denied it until unable to deny any longer, ruined his reputation, Schumacher (stopping on the grid in qually to take pole, driving into another car in 94 then AGAIN in 97 to win the championship) and Romney (LOST the election) aren't exactly your best examples for "winner types". They're not disliked because they're successful (impossible for Romney since he wasn't even that), they're disliked because the way they went about it either broke the rules (doping) or broke a very simple moral rule (don't deliberately crash into someone else - it's dangerous). There's nothing wrong with not "being nice and friendly" but when you break the rules or start being dangerous there's definitely something wrong with that.

this is hypocracy at its best :(

i don't know if it really deserves an answer but here it goes:

- armstrong fought cancer and won. he won the tour several times and while he used doping, it was the same for everyone. also doping alone doesn't win you the tour de france several times. it's strong training, loats of discipline and so on. he was the only rider doing the stages of the tour in the winter already when others were sitting at home eating christmas cookies.

- schumacher won 7 titles. in different formula 1s so to speak. he won titles with slicks and with 3.5 litre engines, with grooved tires and he won the first title with ferrari after 21 years of nothing. don't forget ferrari was a big mess when he arrived and he built it to the most successful team in the 00's. he had several disputable moments on and off track, just like prost, senna, mansell, piquet and later on now vettel has. it's just the way this goes.

- mitt romney: i don't think i really have to name all his successes again. republican elected governor in the most liberal state ever, highly successful business career, this guy could have stopped working 20 years ago ... if that's not success then i don't know.

what i wanna say is this: today you can take anyone, and find mistakes and bad attitudes. one person smokes, the other one has a drinking habit, the other one is fat, the other one cheats, the other one is unreliable, the other one gets a ticket for speeding or parking at the wrong place. holy ****: thats wall wrong and dangerous, but i see the broader picture. if you are unable to do that, you can probably only admire the pope who always has led a very boring life in nearly isolation. but even with him there is constant rumors about child abusage etc. etc.

so you see: everyone comes with some mistakes or even crimes.

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Noir Angel

- armstrong fought cancer and won. he won the tour several times and while he used doping, it was the same for everyone. also doping alone doesn't win you the tour de france several times. it's strong training, loats of discipline and so on. he was the only rider doing the stages of the tour in the winter already when others were sitting at home eating christmas cookies.

So bloody what. Does fighting off cancer give a person the right to cheat? There are rules in the sport and he broke them. An achievement isn't an achievement if you have to cheat to beat everyone else.

- schumacher won 7 titles. in different formula 1s so to speak. he won titles with slicks and with 3.5 litre engines, with grooved tires and he won the first title with ferrari after 21 years of nothing. don't forget ferrari was a big mess when he arrived and he built it to the most successful team in the 00's. he had several disputable moments on and off track, just like prost, senna, mansell, piquet and later on now vettel has. it's just the way this goes.

He was also a ruthless and arrogant cheat that had no qualms about ramming his competitors off the track if it served his ends. No sport is worth risking other's lives to win, yet he did just that. What happened at Jerez '97, Monaco '06 and Hungary 2010 summed up Michael Schumacher's character.

- mitt romney: i don't think i really have to name all his successes again. republican elected governor in the most liberal state ever, highly successful business career, this guy could have stopped working 20 years ago ... if that's not success then i don't know.

He was also proven to be a serial liar, and (it's funny people have to keep reminding you of this really) he LOST the election INCLUDING the popular vote.

what i wanna say is this: today you can take anyone, and find mistakes and bad attitudes. one person smokes, the other one has a drinking habit, the other one is fat, the other one cheats, the other one is unreliable, the other one gets a ticket for speeding or parking at the wrong place. holy ****: thats wall wrong and dangerous, but i see the broader picture. if you are unable to do that, you can probably only admire the pope who always has led a very boring life in nearly isolation. but even with him there is constant rumors about child abusage etc. etc.

so you see: everyone comes with some mistakes or even crimes.

Which is odd, given that you rip into Alonso for the most silly of things, yet act like the cheating of Lance Armstrong and Michael Schumacher was perfectly acceptable. I think we can see who the real hypocrite is here.

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MightyJordan

*snipped*

Post of the bloody week right there.

clapem.gif

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Noir Angel

Pretty interesting, thanks.

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Chasethebase

Quite a funny article from today's "news"

Red Bull punish Vettel by demoting him to Toro Rosso for Chinese GP

The aftermath of the Multi 21 team orders saga continues to rage, and today it has emerged that Red Bull have mandated that their errant world champion Sebastian Vettel will be ?punished? for his disobedience in Malaysia and demoted to the Toro Rosso team for the Chinese Grand Prix.

Although Vettel apologised in person to the Red Bull back room staff at the team?s Milton Keynes head quarters last week, the team?s senior management ? bar one ? were in favour of additional disciplanary action as the authority of team principal Christian Horner was severely undermined by the Sepang incident.

A team insider revealed, ?Initially Christian [Horner] was not upset because it was quite normal procedure in the team, this happens all the time with Seb ? he never listens. But once the paddock, particularly Flav [briatore], started sticking the knife into Christian and questioning his leadership, it became a question of damage control.?

Apparently the catalyst for Horner?s reaction, was a caption photo of Vettel joking about the incident with Michael Schumacher, this prompted the team principal to act with greater resolve.

image001.jpg

Read More http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/04/01/red-bull-punish-vettel-by-demoting-him-to-toro-rosso-for-chinese-gp/

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Noir Angel

It's a shame that's only an april fool's gag because it would be immensely funny if true :D

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Intersect

Quite a funny article from today's "news"

best april fool ever. if only it were true the only fool would be vethell

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simonlang

It's a shame that's only an april fool's gag because it would be immensely funny if true :D

especially knowing that seb even can win races in a toro rosso. slowlonso be aware! :woot:

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TheLegendOfMart

I'd love to see Vettel in a crap car and see how many people idolise him once they realise most of his "talent" is the raw pace of the Red Bull car.

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i11usive

I'd love to see Vettel in a crap car and see how many people idolise him once they realise most of his "talent" is the raw pace of the Red Bull car.

I agree the RB is a phenomenal car - testament to the genius of Adrian Newey. It seems everything he does in F1 is a success. However, Vettel did put up a cracking fight in Brazil when he was facing the wrong way after a few turns - making his way back up the field to take the WDC.

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KiHu

I'd love to see Vettel in a crap car and see how many people idolise him once they realise most of his "talent" is the raw pace of the Red Bull car.

Vettel did fair quite OK in the cars he drove before Red Bull as well..

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+Frank B.

Vettel is by no means a bad driver. What he lacks is the extra bit of racecraft which M. Schumacher or A. Senna had, and which helped them win races, even championships in sub-optimal cars. Also, the last GP showed clearly that he's a spoiled brat.

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TheLegendOfMart

I agree the RB is a phenomenal car - testament to the genius of Adrian Newey. It seems everything he does in F1 is a success. However, Vettel did put up a cracking fight in Brazil when he was facing the wrong way after a few turns - making his way back up the field to take the WDC.

Not hard to do when you have a fast car, look at Button in Canada 2011, he collided with Alonso on lap 37 and effectively was at the back of the grid, in the rain, he stormed through the grid and overtook Vettel on the last lap.

Vettel did fair quite OK in the cars he drove before Red Bull as well..

Didn't say he was a bad driver but people are talking like he is the best driver in F1, it would be interesting to have a race where every car was identical to see where everyone ranked skill wise.

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simonlang

I'd love to see Vettel in a crap car and see how many people idolise him once they realise most of his "talent" is the raw pace of the Red Bull car.

so how many titles would redbull have won with webber? :)

i give you a hint: it doesn't take much time to count :laugh:

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TheLegendOfMart

so how many titles would redbull have won with webber? :)

i give you a hint: it doesn't take much time to count :laugh:

What do you expect from a clear number 2 driver, they claim to treat them equally but obviously Mark has to play second fiddle to Vettel, wasn't so long ago Vettel trashed his front wing and they took it off Marks car because they didn't have any spares, I'm not saying he could or would have won championships but having the clear fastest car on the grid makes up for any lack of talent you may or may not have.

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simonlang

What do you expect from a clear number 2 driver, they claim to treat them equally but obviously Mark has to play second fiddle to Vettel, wasn't so long ago Vettel trashed his front wing and they took it off Marks car because they didn't have any spares, I'm not saying he could or would have won championships but having the clear fastest car on the grid makes up for any lack of talent you may or may not have.

this is such a lame excuse. webber was leading the wdc in 2010 and was redbulls clear favorite for the title. the fact that he prefered to stay all the race behind his best friend alonso instead of launching an attack is not vettels mistake. vettel delivered in 2010 the same way he did in 2012. when it counts he delivers. which can't be said about webber or alonso. the only driver delivering the same way was massa in 2008 when he drove a perfect race in interlagos. button had a too superior car in 2009, similar to vettel in 2011 (what did webber with that superior car i have no idea!) to make any judgement.

also: senna won 1 of his 3 titles in a clearly superior car, schumacher won 3 titels in a superior car. where was his teammate? not always 2nd, sometimes even further back. even with a great car you have to deliver. also NO driver wins a wdc in a bad car. never happend. never will.

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i11usive

Not hard to do when you have a fast car, look at Button in Canada 2011, he collided with Alonso on lap 37 and effectively was at the back of the grid, in the rain, he stormed through the grid and overtook Vettel on the last lap.

I remember that race ... we were in Portugal watching it and the bar we were in erupted when Button made the pass...

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Daedroth

so how many titles would redbull have won with webber? :)

i give you a hint: it doesn't take much time to count :laugh:

Webber is clearly a number two driver, which means Vettel gets all the preferential treatment. I've noticed Vettel never has any issues with his KERS, whereas Webber does, none of which is his fault.

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heslo

Vettel never has any issues with his KERS, whereas Webber does, none of which is his fault.

Webber is also a lot taller than Vettel, that means he takes more room up in the cockpit so there's less room to keep KERS cooled properly. That's why Webber always seems to have issues with his KERS :(

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Noir Angel

The only driver delivering the same way was massa in 2008 when he drove a perfect race in interlagos. button had a too superior car in 2009, similar to vettel in 2011 (what did webber with that superior car i have no idea!) to make any judgement.

A bad example for a couple of reasons. The first is that the only reason Massa got anywhere near that title was due to the FIA constantly throwing absurd penalties at McLaren (looking at Massa's silverstone spinfest from 2008 is a more realistic portrayl of his driving ability in my opinion), and the second is that the 2008 Ferrari was not an inferior car, it was a frontrunning car.

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simonlang

- german newspaper auto-motor-und-sport runs a story about multi21 today that the fact behind it was that webbers driving consumed too much fuel and he was behind the plan since lap 42, therefore had to save fuel.

i wonder what this tells us not only about redbull (if one driver has to save fuel, it should NOT influence the other driver imho) but also about webber, who should be pretty familiar with the car, the engine, the tires and therefore have at least an idea how he is doing fuel wise in a race.

next year fuel consumption will be even more crucial. vettel has shown, with his tire saving in quali, that he is a great champ and knows how to apply tactics. webber on the other hand, hasn't learnt anything over the last years it seems. he probably wouldnt have finished a single race in the 1980s. :/

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Lingwo

Give it a rest. At least try and be unbiased in your opinions, it is getting a bit boring now. Every driver at one point has fuel saving issues. It can be due to being out of position or having to defend a position.

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Noir Angel

Why one driver had to slow down is irrelevant. The team asked the little swine to ask station, and he ignored them. If you did that in any other profession you would be sacked on the spot.

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Chasethebase

Guys, I think it's come to high time for me to say this. Pack it in. Seriously the rest of the forum doesn't want to browse a thread where 4 or so pages are two members bickering at each other. Please keep the thread clean from now on.

What happened in the race, happened. Deal with it and move on. The Chinese GP is coming up next weekend (As long as NK doesn't do anything stupid) and you should be looking forward to that.

In other news, here's a few classic liveries with modern adaptations.

F1F-1991-Jordan_191-Plain-886x590.jpg

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