What was your initial reaction to Windows 8?

[Rickkins]

But the desktop has all but been thrown into the "depreciated" pile. How long it'll remain there before being completely eliminated remains to be seen.

Delusional...

[.Neo]

Win8 is a lot of things but plain and boring? And that's coming from OS X. You gotta explain that one.

For those not interested in running simplistic tablet apps on their desktop Windows 8's basically Windows 7.5 with the new Start Screen slapped on. When you strip away Metro Microsoft really didn't add that much new to the mix.

The issue is, in my opinion and something I expressed a couple of times before, I honestly think both Apple and Microsoft pretty much perfected their desktop operating systems. They basically took things as far as they could go. So right now they're just reinventing the wheel just to give the general public a (sort of) false sense of having a new product. In fact it's the pretty much the same thing they had before just with a different look.

Of course there's always room for improvements, but in term of raw major new features it's becoming increasingly hard to introduce something truly new.

[MorganX]

I use win8 desktop exclusively on my home machine, with Classic Shell. I find it most excellent. It's only the metro nonsense I avoid. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Metro has no place on the desktop. imho, of course.

I think apps or applets designed with being snapped to the desktop in mind could be quite useful. also, windowing Modern UI would be quite nice. But then, it would be basically the desktop environment then. :/ hmm...

[MorganX]

Delusional...

I don't have a problem with Dot's grandiose vision for the future of GUIs, it's the rewriting of the present and history that is questionable. i.e. Desktop = dead, start menu = inefficient, etc. Suddenly Windows 7 was an inefficient mess because MS needed a touch UI for tablets to get in that segment in a meaningful way.

[.Neo]

But the desktop has all but been thrown into the "depreciated" pile. How long it'll remain there before being completely eliminated remains to be seen.

That must be why Microsoft Office 2013 still runs on the desktop and hasn't been released for Metro.

[argonite]

No way. Sounds like he's barely out of school and lacks any real experience in the industry. (Monkeying with tablets to read Facebook and watch YouTube excluded)

Umm.... am I the only one around here that doesn't mind Dot Matrix?

I mean I don't always agree with him, but his posts are generally substantial, non-insulting, and clearly state a combination of personal reasons and analysis of Microsoft strategy.

And he likes Windows 8 a lot.

[Dot Matrix]

That must be why Microsoft Office 2013 still runs on the desktop and hasn't been released for Metro.

... But it will be. I'm betting sooner, rather than later.

[Rickkins]

Umm.... am I the only one around here that doesn't mind Dot Matrix?

I don't mind him. I'm a strong proponent of free speech...

[syobon999]

pretty much this.

[+hedleigh Subscriber²]

My first impression, Dogs Breakfast. Hasn't changed.

I think the problem people have with Dot Matrix is his inability to understand what a thread title means.

As in what was your initial reaction. He can't leave it alone when someone's opinion differs to his. Which usually takes the thread off topic almost.

I don't care that he likes 8, he shouldn't care that others don't. Apparently change is only good when it applies to computers.

Of course this is my opinion, one that is so obviously wrong. :/

[Noir Angel]

I don't have a problem with Dot's grandiose vision for the future of GUIs, it's the rewriting of the present and history that is questionable. i.e. Desktop = dead, start menu = inefficient, etc. Suddenly Windows 7 was an inefficient mess because MS needed a touch UI for tablets to get in that segment in a meaningful way.

His vision isn't grandiose, it's insane. He wants to turn people's computers into useless tinkertoys. Doing away with the desktop is REALLY bad for anyone that needs any kind of productivity. People only tolerate Windows 8 because the desktop hasn't been removed. If it is removed he is probably about the only person that would be keen to buy it. Try telling a graphics designer and film renderer that all their advanced UI controls are gone and that they can no longer effectively multitask.

[Dot Matrix]

His vision isn't grandiose, it's insane. He wants to turn people's computers into useless tinkertoys. Doing away with the desktop is REALLY bad for anyone that needs any kind of productivity. People only tolerate Windows 8 because the desktop hasn't been removed. If it is removed he is probably about the only person that would be keen to buy it. Try telling a graphics designer and film renderer that all their advanced UI controls are gone and that they can no longer effectively multitask.

Useless tinkertoys? You can still be productive on Metro... Why can't Metro have advanced options? Many of the Metro apps I use feature plenty of options... It wouldn't take much to add those "advanced options" in.

And here's for you coders out there. ;)

The "Code Writer" app even features tabs, for all your multitasking needs.

[NinjaGinger]

Its for tablet and phones, what about desktops? And the same for the final.

[Noir Angel]

Useless tinkertoys? You can still be productive on Metro... Why can't Metro have advanced options? Many of the Metro apps I use feature plenty of options... It wouldn't take much to add those "advanced options" in.

Because it's fundamentally impossible for a design paradigm based around a touch UI to have the same level of UI advance as a desktop application. I dread to think what Photoshop would be like if they tried to embed it's plethora of menus within one of those ugly Metro interfaces.

[Dot Matrix]

Because it's fundamentally impossible for a design paradigm based around a touch UI to have the same level of UI advance as a desktop application. I dread to think what Photoshop would be like if they tried to embed it's plethora of menus within one of those ugly Metro interfaces.

It still can be done.

[George P Global Moderator]

Who says you can't have menus in metro apps, I've used apps that more or less have menus in them but originating in the app bar instead of a top menu bar. You can also do and have pop-up windows inside metro apps as well. You can have the side pop out with more options if needed as well. You can code a number of different things to show a number options in you apps. A good developer just has to do it.

[soumyasch]

Initially, seeing the screens and demos, it was exciting. It was a new concept that did hold a lot of promise. A concept whose implementation on Windows Phones I like a lot. So had very high hopes from it on the desktop.

But when I first installed the developer preview (or whatever the first public release was called), I was like "What sort of crap is this?" What I liked on the small (in physical size) of a phone, I hated on the desktop. The start menu shoved too much things up in my face. The navigation was totally unintuitive. A list that the scroll button or two finger gesture does not scroll. Backspace that doesn't go back. Apps as modal dialogs that Esc doesn't dismiss. Etc etc. I wanted to reboot back to Windows 7 within five minutes. But was forced to spend ten more because I couldn't find the way to reboot!!! Finally had to open the command prompt and use shutdown /r /t 0. And that cemented my first opinion of the OS - if something like rebooting could be this complex, how would the rest of the OS be?

When the final release arrived, I installed again. This time I was in for an even bigger shock. No start menu. Instead a screenfull of colorful icons. And a flat style instead of the beautiful Aero Glass. True the window chrome is something i don't pay attention to most of the time, but when I do, the glass looks more beautiful. Still I forced myself to use it for two days, to give it a fair chance. I hated using the start screen. I hated the incompleteness of either UI. I hated the artificial restrictions - restricted multitasking on Modern apps, no WinRT on desktop and so on and so forth. True there are ways an application to provide same experience despite the restrictions, but very few apps are there today. The ecosystem to support the new model is not there today. May be someday the restrictions won't come in the way of a good user experience. But today is not that day. As it stands today, Windows 8 does not suit my style of working. For those who it does, good for you. But I am not gonna change my style, my comfort to fit the whims of an OS. I will change it if it brings me benefits - the UX changes in Windows 8 do not provide enough benefits to justify changing my working style.

[MorganX]

Who says you can't have menus in metro apps, I've used apps that more or less have menus in them but originating in the app bar instead of a top menu bar. You can also do and have pop-up windows inside metro apps as well. You can have the side pop out with more options if needed as well. You can code a number of different things to show a number options in you apps. A good developer just has to do it.

Once you have Menu's, in-place context sensitive menus, etc. You basically have the Desktop Environment (assuming MDI comes). I don't have a problem with that. The Desktop Environment may go away from a consumer tablet, but it'll be on workstations for a long time. Probably as long as the command line. Microsoft didn't take away the Desktop at all, and they didn't take it out of the forefront because it isn't needed or because people don't want it. They did that because MDI hasn't worked for them on tablets. They need a touch UI.

Now, that touch UI is nice, but somewhat disappointing. The Surface savior is the Pro. Why, because it runs Windows apps, plus it has the Touch UI for tableting around.

[Noir Angel]

It still can be done.

Not without either significantly gimping Photoshop's functionality or leaving the UI a seriously unusable mess.

[Dot Matrix]

Not without either significantly gimping Photoshop's functionality or leaving the UI a seriously unusable mess.

Really? Take a look at the ESPN app, and you'll see what's possible with the Metro UI. There's plenty of room for controls.

[George P Global Moderator]

Once you have Menu's, in-place context sensitive menus, etc. You basically have the Desktop Environment (assuming MDI comes). I don't have a problem with that. The Desktop Environment may go away from a consumer tablet, but it'll be on workstations for a long time. Probably as long as the command line. Microsoft didn't take away the Desktop at all, and they didn't take it out of the forefront because it isn't needed or because people don't want it. They did that because MDI hasn't worked for them on tablets. They need a touch UI.

Now, that touch UI is nice, but somewhat disappointing. The Surface savior is the Pro. Why, because it runs Windows apps, plus it has the Touch UI for tableting around.

I don't think the desktop is going away but that doesn't mean it won't change more. I think it will but how far and how quick I dunno. All I'm saying is that you can have metro apps with more features if a developer codes it. There already is a number of ways to expose them in apps so I have no doubt we'll see bigger apps on that side like we have on the desktop. App bar based menus, radial dial controls, pop up windows, you can have options at the top bar as well and the side pop out windows can all expose features in any app. It's not like the ui itself doesn't have things in place already.

[MorganX]

Not without either significantly gimping Photoshop's functionality or leaving the UI a seriously unusable mess.

Photoshop, will work in Metro, only you lose drag and drop. Browsing for files and relying on thumbnails, trashed. But in the app, Photoshop's internal MDI and menuing would be the same. I guess, what's the point, just leave it as is ... That's Microsoft's dilemma. They've already taken a risk with the Modern UI. Everyone knows it's somewhat gimped compared to the Explorer UI. But they are for different things.

Obviiously if you want to take a few finger friendly notes One Note MX is fine. Visio document, complex spreadsheet, you need mouse, keyboard, and precision, and probably MDI if you're a pro :)

I don't think the desktop is going away but that doesn't mean it won't change more. I think it will but how far and how quick I dunno. All I'm saying is that you can have metro apps with more features if a developer codes it. There already is a number of ways to expose them in apps so I have no doubt we'll see bigger apps on that side like we have on the desktop. App bar based menus, radial dial controls, pop up windows, you can have options at the top bar as well and the side pop out windows can all expose features in any app. It's not like the ui itself doesn't have things in place already.

Agreed. Here's the deal though. Make those apps. As great as they may be, are they not even more functional in the Desktop Environment with drag n drop, MDI, Explorer's file browsing, etc.?

[johnporter29]

These Windows 8 discussions always end up the same: those that don't like it say so, those that do like it, try to convince the haters that they're wrong.

Let me correct that for you:

These Windows 8 discussions always end up the same: those that don't like it say so, those that do like it say so, and those from either side try to convince each other that they're wrong.

[George P Global Moderator]

Agreed. Here's the deal though. Make those apps. As great as they may be, are they not even more functional in the Desktop Environment with drag n drop, MDI, Explorer's file browsing, etc.?

I agree which is why I think with time and a few more updates we could see both sides come closer. They can just as well make a version of file explorer that runs on both and so on.

[MorganX]

His vision isn't grandiose, it's insane. He wants to turn people's computers into useless tinkertoys. Doing away with the desktop is REALLY bad for anyone that needs any kind of productivity. People only tolerate Windows 8 because the desktop hasn't been removed. If it is removed he is probably about the only person that would be keen to buy it. Try telling a graphics designer and film renderer that all their advanced UI controls are gone and that they can no longer effectively multitask.

You are right. I think if the desktop had been removed at this point, Windows 8 would be a total flop.

Having said that, as it refers to graphic designers and A/V editors, people who use lots of removable storage. No need to wait for the next generation of 10G USB 3.0. Windows 8's native UASP drivers with modern USB 3.0 devices that support it can provide a 15-75% boost over the already fast USB 3.0. If you're using external SSDs, woohoo, you'll push the limits of the bandwidth.

Current known UASP support (soon all USB 3.0 devices will support):

Lacie Porsche line of external drives and their Rugged Thumb Drives.

Mushkin Ventura Pro thumb drives

Thermaltake Max 5G USB 3.0 enclosures

This page from ASUS lists many more: http://event.asus.com/mb/2010/the_best_usb3_experience/The_UASP_For_USB3.0.htm