Windows 8 adoption rate almost at a standstill, far behind Windows 7

[Order_66]

People are not "afraid" of change, there is nothing to "fear" from an operating system, people demanding to see "raw numbers" and those who claim we are "afraid" of an operating system or that we "fear change" are simply trying to save face because their pride has been hurt.

The stark, simple truth of the matter is that windows 8 is now an official failure, period!

In all honesty I wish this wasn't the case at all, I would have loved to see a fitting upgrade from windows 7 but it's just not there, hopefully windows 9 will change this but I have no faith in microsoft anymore, we told them windows 8 would fail and they didn't listen, unless some major changes are made (ie firing Ballmer) windows will eventually descend into irrelevancy on the desktop and we will all eventually be forced in to seeking out other viable operating systems in which to work with on the desktop.

[MorganX]

It's more fundamental than that. Low information density, support for only a few visible apps at a time, abstracting away the file system, propensity to hide information (i.e. charms), use of off-screen area, poor integration with the desktop + no support for desktop apps, this is all great for a mobile touch-UI device and terrible for productivity and corporate use.

My best theory for Windows 8 is that they never expected the business to use it anyway, since Windows 7 was so good, so they took this calculated risk to make a ridiculously consumer-oriented Windows. I'm not sure what they intend to do with Windows 9 but unless they come back to their senses it's going to be a disaster for the entire industry, nevermind Microsoft.

That's an interesting theory. And would have been ingenious. Only if Windows 8 is supposed to be consumer oriented, someone forgot to tell the core app people. Xbox Music and Video apps can only be a part of Willy Wonka's grand domination scheme. The Zune guys must've been in a corner for a timeout as well. :)

If it weren't for all the great enterprise features I would agree with you. Or if there had been a GPO for enterprise to bypass the Start Page.

People are not "afraid" of change, there is nothing to "fear" from an operating system, people demanding to see "raw numbers" and those who claim we are "afraid" of an operating system or that we "fear change" are simply trying to save face because their pride has been hurt.

The stark, simple truth of the matter is that windows 8 is now an official failure, period!

In all honesty I wish this wasn't the case at all, I would have loved to see a fitting upgrade from windows 7 but it's just not there, hopefully windows 9 will change this but I have no faith in microsoft anymore, we told them windows 8 would fail and they didn't listen, unless some major changes are made (ie firing Ballmer) windows will eventually descend into irrelevancy on the desktop and we will all eventually be forced in to seeking out other viable operating systems in which to work with on the desktop.

I want to agree with you, but I can't go to the extreme. It's not an official failure. Though leaking Windows 9 info so soon would suggest MS is throwing in the towel and moving on, lol.

Microsoft has total desktop domination. They're so far out in front they have no fear of this. Linux, no chance, never did have one, never will. Never, ever. Apple, they're not really interested and their corporate culture would get destroyed if they truly tried to step into this space. They actually had a presence long time ago, and were quickly evicted.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

I just think this is further off that MS believes. There's the physical aspects. People don't like carrying things around. They'd rather sit at home and work, and carry much lighter devices on move. Most workers, sit. It's a small percentage that are allocated laptops, tablets, and even smartphones.

It's good they're preparing for that eventuality whenever it occurs. They really should have been more transparent as to pre-warning their direction, I think taken more end user input, and provided bridging options (GPO for Start Page, and possibly Start Menu).

As it is today, the Modern UI's inability to manage long lists and in-place context actions will prevent it from ever supplanting corporate desktop IMO. These things aren't that difficult to overcome, it'll be interesting to see what Blue and 9 bring.

In my workplace it's about two thirds laptops and the Windows 8 update is about to begin.

[MorganX]

I would say, the investors want Microsoft to head into the tablet space. They don't care at all how well Microsoft is doing in the Server/Desktop market,

they see people with iPads and Android ... erm Tabs/Nexuses and then ask why Microsoft doesn't go there, because somehow you're irrelevant if you're

not in that market (once again disregarding the other, strong, markets).

So Microsoft tried to do something new by giving people tablets with "real"* ** operating systems on them. And now they only get flak for it.

* - Yes, Windows RT isn't very much a full OS experience, but it is a "real" OS.

** - Real as in it has a Desktop and is something a lot of people use daily.

Oh and I really like Windows 8 even though a lot of things are quite rough, not buggy but not usable enough.

I think they get flak for doing something somewhat boneheaded. Why would you go into a consumer market against iPads and Nexuses with a full OS Experience including a desktop, keyboard and kickstand and full blown non-Metro Office 2013? it had/has no chance of succeeding in that space. And while it performs well (it's great for RDP and email in my book), it performs nothing like Android on Tegra 3.

In my workplace it's about two thirds laptops and the Windows 8 update is about to begin.

Wow. That's definitely a mobile workplace.

[Coolicer]

Why would you go into a consumer market against iPads and Nexuses with a full OS Experience including a desktop, keyboard and kickstand and full blown non-Metro Office 2013?

Well, I remember when the first iPad was announced everyone was disappointed that it wasn't running a full blown OSX, but now everyone is enjoying their Smartpho-- erm Tablets (but in essence Smartphones with large screens).

What can Microsoft do now? Ship tablets with Windows Phone on them? Have two different Windows versions?

I find it amusing that everyone is missing the point of why Microsoft has gone with a unifying experience and the reason why they will not remove or make the Start Screen optional. Microsoft needs to bring as many app developers on-boards as they can. What would be the user base running Windows "For touchscreens" now? Just a few million devices?* Now they can claim that targeting WinRT would target the whole Windows 8 user-base, touchscreen laptops, desktops, tablets and (soon) Windows Phone as well.

Sidestory:

Also, to be brutally honest, as much as I dislike Apple, I went with my mother to the store to check out some Android tablets. She's going to get the Surface Pro for Photoshop/Illustrator work once it becomes available here in the Netherlands, but wanted a tablet to just browse the web as well. I was extremely disappointed in the current Android tablet offerings and especially the Nexus 7/10's while the overpriced Asus WinRT tablet was pretty damn smooth.

In the end I told her to just get the iPad Mini.

* Basing this mostly on the Surface RT sales

[MorganX]

>>What can Microsoft do now?<<

I'm sure MS is asking themselves, that same question. They do need to figure out what it is people want. They know what they'd like to give them, but ...

>>I find it amusing that everyone is missing the point of why Microsoft has gone with a unifying experience and the reason why they will not remove or make the Start Screen optional. <<

I think people get it. They don't understand why it could not have been an advanced option. Buried deep. You know like installing the tftp server or Unix services.

>>I was extremely disappointed in the current Android tablet offerings and especially the Nexus 7/10's while the overpriced Asus WinRT tablet was pretty damn smooth.<<

I'm not a big Android fan except the top of the line phones. They have all the apps I want and support all the technologies I want like BT 4.0 and apt-X. Surface RT is acceptable, but once the apps are running especially 3D games, Android OS can rock a Tegra 3. I have no doubt MS can get WinRT leaner and meaner, I don't know that they're going to. I get they feeling they're stretched way too think right now, which again, would be a management issue.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

I hear what you're saying about being self-sufficient. That doesn't necessarily mean profitable. You can ruin a large company with billions in sales simply by eroding the true profit margin.

I'll wait for the latest financials, but I don't think the Entertainment division is actually in the black anymore. Could be wrong. But Office is still the cash cow. In fact, for Enterprise Agreements, the cost of the OS licenses is negligible. For an organization with a few thousand users Windows licenses can be counted in tens to hundreds of thousands. Enterprise Cals (which allow access to all those great servers and apps which is what actually makes them profitable) hundreds of thousands. Office, can get into the millions.

That's about 2-3k users. Now apply that to large organizations and Federal Government where you're looking at 50k+ users. You're probably right if you throw in the Cals. But I stand by everything pales in comparison to Office, and I don't know how thin the profit margins are in the other groups.

The notion of killing off the enterprise desktop and Office profit as well as Enterprise CALs is a silly one. The tablet initiative is for the parallel emerging market of mobility.

i'm not sure if you actually re-read some of the things you post or where you get your claims from.

but this is Microsoft's latest quarter reports: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/FinancialStatements/fy13/q2/SegmentRevenues.aspx

the divisions are way more than self-sufficient take a look at it for yourself. the only one that's not profitable is the online and services division.

also I'm not even sure where you get the "the notion of killing off the enterprise desktop and office profits as well as enterprise CALs....." i'm guessing you were replying to someone else's comment with that.

[MorganX]

i'm not sure if you actually re-read some of the things you post or where you get your claims from.

but this is Microsoft's latest quarter reports: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/FinancialStatements/fy13/q2/SegmentRevenues.aspx

the divisions are way more than self-sufficient take a look at it for yourself. the only one that's not profitable is the online and services division.

also I'm not even sure where you get the "the notion of killing off the enterprise desktop and office profits as well as enterprise CALs....." i'm guessing you were replying to someone else's comment with that.

You can't simply go by a published quarterly report. Charge offs and creative reductions in operating costs mask division profits and inflate them, for those reports, for Shareholders. I would trust financial analyst's annual reports as opposed to the quarterly reports.

Case in point, last year the Entertainment Division as a whole I think increased profits by 15 or so percent by reducing costs, but the Xbox divisions profits dropped over a billion dollars or 29%. Somewhere in there the loss on Surface so far is or will be hidden. There's no way it's not at a loss, might not be there forever. Windows and Office are still what makes Microsoft, Microsoft. But things change.

To your second query yes. The whole MS' profitability stemmed from the suggestion Desktop computing was done.

[Dot Matrix]

I think an option to boot to desktop, and maybe, maybe and GPO to enable the start button, and everybody would be happy. I would only enable the Start Menu to avoid Modern UI search, but honestly, I prefer Start8 to the Windows 7 desktop. I like the Metroness of it and it's options.

Even with "options", what does that do? Eventually, like it or not, those "options" would go away, and we'd back to where we are now.

Tablets will never take over from Desktops, with a Desktop you can buy cheap parts, Tablets with everything integrated are stupid expensive, so I'm not sure why it is smart to sacrifice their traditional desktop users.

No, but desktops are a different beast that will still evolve regardless of if you want them to or not. New technologies have emerged - remotes, Wacom tablets, touch, motion, voice control, etc - that have pushed the mouse off it's thrown. A few of these technologies have broken into mainstream use, necessitating the need for these changes.

[nekrosoft13]

Windows 8 is so diabolical it should be taken off the shop shelf and removed from every PC/Laptop on on sale today /s

agreed, it should be recalled.

[nekkidtruth]

No, but desktops are a different beast that will still evolve regardless of if you want them to or not. New technologies have emerged - remotes, Wacom tablets, touch, motion, voice control, etc - that have pushed the mouse off it's thrown. A few of these technologies have broken into mainstream use, necessitating the need for these changes.

Sorry but, source? These "new technologies" have existed for years. They are not "new". I have yet to come across a single person who use any of the above over a mouse in my every day surroundings. So I have to call B.S. Unless of course you have proof that any of these are new technologies and have suddenly taken over.

[Dot Matrix]

Sorry but, source? These "new technologies" have existed for years. They are not "new". I have yet to come across a single person who use any of the above over a mouse in my every day surroundings. So I have to call B.S. Unless of course you have proof that any of these are new technologies and have suddenly taken over.

Source for what? If you need a source confirming things in the computing world change, Wikipedia has you covered.

[Ian W]

You know, I think 8 would be doing better if they hadn't kicked desktop users off to the side.

[MorganX]

Even with "options", what does that do? Eventually, like it or not, those "options" would go away,

That's not actually how it would work. Enterprises are going to wait until it's in their best interest or skip. It's easiest and cheapest to skip. With options, enterprises could deploy Windows 8 now, with minimal cost and impact. With a GPO, they could enable the start page in ad-hoc fashion as individual business units are trained or have metro apps developed.

There's also a learning curve for trainers, admins, and in-house devs. You can wait until they are trained and comfortable or give options that allow them to deploy now. OK, the curve for admins is not really a curve, but end-user trainers, usually a component of HR in the form a learning center and in-house devs will require significant time and resources to prepare and schedule classes and develop apps, if any.

You know, I think 8 would be doing better if they hadn't kicked desktop users off to the side.

hahaha, *Snap*

[nekkidtruth]

Source for what? If you need a source confirming things in the computing world change, Wikipedia has you covered.

Aka, you were just spouting B.S. and have absolutely zero to back up your statement that mice have been dethroned by "new technology" that has been around for years and years.

Got'cha. Carry on.

[tanjiajun_34]

Even without this article, I think everyone will still believe that Windows 7 sold better than Windows 8...

[MorganX]

No, but desktops are a different beast that will still evolve regardless of if you want them to or not. New technologies have emerged - remotes, Wacom tablets, touch, motion, voice control, etc - that have pushed the mouse off it's thrown. A few of these technologies have broken into mainstream use, necessitating the need for these changes.

You're talking about Niche controls. En masse, in the enterprise, voice control, motion, remotes? Well we do have remotes in all the conference rooms with a Media Center desktop with a projector. Graphic Designers/CAD have been using Wacom tablets for years, and will probably remain the primary users, a niche. All of these things are neat, and it's actually excellent that Windows supports them all, and at home, the Voice Recognition built into Windows is quite excellent. But these are not technologies that are going to receive high volume use and nowhere near replacing the mouse and keyboard.

[Dot Matrix]

You're talking about Niche controls. En masse, in the enterprise, voice control, motion, remotes? Well we do have remotes in all the conference rooms with a Media Center desktop with a projector. Graphic Designers/CAD have been using Wacom tablets for years, and will probably remain the primary users, a niche. All of these things are neat, and it's actually excellent that Windows supports them all, and at home, the Voice Recognition built into Windows is quite excellent. But these are not technologies that are going to receive high volume use and nowhere near replacing the mouse and keyboard.

I never said keyboard. You'll always have some form of a keyboard, but in our everyday lives, especially that of the younger generations, how many still use a mouse more than touch?

Hell, I've had my laptop for over three years now, and the other day, without thinking, I reached out to touch it. Kids today are going to have the same reaction when they sit down at a PC, thanks to having used mom and dad's phones or tablets has a kid.

[Noir Angel]

... Seriously? the vast majority of computers are still being sold with a mouse. More youngsters are getting smartphones but they aren't superseding PC's, most children still do their homework on a PC that has a mouse and keyboard.

[PGHammer]

The voice of reason :)

I'm sure metro is great on tablets, but the interfaces on tablets and desktops SHOULD NOT be unified. Mouses and fingers are different and the interfaces for them have always been different. For example, if I grab a scrollbar and drag it downwards with my mouse, I will see content below what is currently on screen, but if I drag a list downwards with my finger, I will see content ABOVE what is currently on screen.

I don't personally see how the start screen has improved anything either. Live Tiles are kinda implemented in Windows 7 in the guise of the sidebar.

I'm all for change as long as it improves something, but I don't think Metro brings improvements to the desktop experience.

Mozilla, Google and Apple can do whatever they want; I don't use desktop OSes made by any of those companies, so they don't concern me.

However, except around the edges, Microsoft has done NOTHING to the base UI of Windows since 9x.

The same is, amazingly, largely true of Apple's UI - how much has the UI changed, in an overall sense, since (amusingly) OS 8?

The most major change on the UNIX OS front is, rather amusingly, two deprecations - first, that of OSF/Motif, and the later one of CDE - both of Solaris. (Despite that both deprecations made a great deal of sense, and that the deprecated environments were harshly criticized and had few defenders, there were still those AMONG THE CRITICS that wanted both environments to remain, and even to remain the default. If that isn't a sign of confliction, I don't know what is.)

Changing the UI of an operating system - any operating system - is the most fundamental change that users face; therefore, even when necessary, it will be fought, tooth and nail - and with fanaticism.

Note that little of the vigorous defense of any UI (not just the UI "targets" I named above, but the Start menu as well) has anything to do with logic, any more than the fanaticism regarding any other hot topic does.

[Dot Matrix]

... Seriously? the vast majority of computers are still being sold with a mouse. More youngsters are getting smartphones but they aren't superseding PC's, most children still do their homework on a PC that has a mouse and keyboard.

Smartphones? Try tablets, and yes, that market is still growing at a larger pace than the desktop PC market is. You can do a lot on a tablet, and yes, that includes homework, which I myself have done on my cousin's iPad, because I was an idiot and forgot about it, until last minute.

[Noir Angel]

Tablets are still a very small part of the computing market (especially so in the case of Microsoft tablets), and I see no evidence at all that normal computers are being ditched. I know I sure as hell would not want to write an essay on a touchscreen.

[Dot Matrix]

Tablets are still a very small part of the computing market (especially so in the case of Microsoft tablets), and I see no evidence at all that normal computers are being ditched. I know I sure as hell would not want to write an essay on a touchscreen.

Jesus, you're obsessed with touchscreens. I guess these and these don't count?

[MorganX]

>>I never said keyboard.<<

You are correct you did not. Mouse & Keyboard tend to stick together.

>>but in our everyday lives, especially that of the younger generations, how many still use a mouse more than touch?<<

Everyone that wants a job using a computer. Everyone uses a mouse more than touch on a desktop computer. Even on a laptop, touch, a mouse is more efficient, even with the Start Page.

As I said, tablet computing is a complement and/or a parallel market to desktop computing. Even in school whether it's a mac or a pc a mouse and keyboard are and will be the primary input for some time to come. Your personal mobile device notwithstanding.

>>Hell, I've had my laptop for over three years now, and the other day, without thinking, I reached out to touch it.<<

You should get over that. Even with a touch desktop, how much can you actually reach out and do, your gonna draw an email? Visio diagram? Recipe, personal budget, touch is of limited value. There are niche environments where it is of great value. Kiosks and touch input is not knew, and neither are the places where it is of value.

Remember after AVATAR 3D was going to take over everything, again? Just like the 1950s. MP3 players killed walkmans, which were killed by smartphones, but headphones remain.

[Noir Angel]

I'm not the one trying to sell everyone on the idea that we should be superseding PC hardware with tinkertoys you are.